Bassdrummin wrote:
If we want to pull off a successful band we need one important aspect that is being overlooked. More people in teaching roles outside of the FMB leadership who actually put in the work to make the band better. yeah, you may say ... oh we have jeff and justine ... who are extremely nice people. But I leave you with this one question. How many times have they come up to you and told you to get your toes up or to watch the angles of your horns as you pass by?
Chances are, zero.
Maybe not in your section....but they've been of great help to other sections...or at least the one that I'm in. Yeah, I know they've had this whole semester to get the hang of things....but in all reality....they are probably still seeing exactly how things are done. I can imagine it would be hard to just show up at a school you'd never been to before, working on your graduate degree, and then being put into a position of leadership right off the bat. If you think about it...there isn't a lot out there for them to do, as Doctor Hayward and Mr. Nowlin pretty much take care of everything. Getting back to my original point though, they are helpful, and are more likely to help when asked for it. You can't generalize until you have all of the facts.
Leah, no one's bashing Jeff & Justine, but the fact is, the people who NEED help aren't going to ASK for it. The people who actually listen to reminders to keep quiet, are probably not the ones being the distraction in the first place.
And as for Dr H and Mr N taking care of everything, they do take care of all of the official things, but they are only two people. Two, in authority over a band of more than two hundred. I think he's right, "hands on" direction-- from the field, not from the tower-- is important too, whether it comes from Jeff & Justine, or the section leadership. Or better yet, both.
Falcon Marching Band member 2002-05
FMB Flicc Squad Leader 2005
Tau Beta Sigma outreach chair 04-05, 05-06
The sun ALWAYS shines on the Falcon Marching Band.
FliccGirl wrote:
I CERTAINLY agree that the ideal solution would be to keep so busy that there just isn't time to talk and goof off, but what are the euphoniums supposed to do when the directors are guiding the trumpets through a difficult move?
LOL...I swear we are the most over looked section in the band. 9 times out of ten we only get noticed is when we majorly mess up.
FliccGirl wrote:
(Disclaimer which seems to be necessary in this forum : I'm not accusing anyone in this post... I'm just as guilty as everyone else a lot of the time.)
I am every bit a guilty. It is hard to be focus for 2 hours, particularly when your section doen't recieve much attention from those on the tower, but that doesn't excuse the behavior.
FliccGirl wrote:
I CERTAINLY agree that the ideal solution would be to keep so busy that there just isn't time to talk and goof off, but what are the euphoniums supposed to do when the directors are guiding the trumpets through a difficult move?
LOL...I swear we are the most over looked section in the band. 9 times out of ten we only get noticed is when we majorly mess up.
FliccGirl wrote:
(Disclaimer which seems to be necessary in this forum : I'm not accusing anyone in this post... I'm just as guilty as everyone else a lot of the time.)
I am every bit a guilty. It is hard to be focus for 2 hours, particularly when your section doen't recieve much attention from those on the tower, but that doesn't excuse the behavior.
Dude, I was just picking random sections to talk about! I wouldn't dare make fun of the euphs... your section leader knows where I sleep! (Since, y'know, she's my roommate and all. )
Falcon Marching Band member 2002-05
FMB Flicc Squad Leader 2005
Tau Beta Sigma outreach chair 04-05, 05-06
The sun ALWAYS shines on the Falcon Marching Band.
Yeah, I know they've had this whole semester to get the hang of things....but in all reality....they are probably still seeing exactly how things are done. I can imagine it would be hard to just show up at a school you'd never been to before, working on your graduate degree, and then being put into a position of leadership right off the bat. .
I've personally shown up to many bands that I have had no experiences with and had no trouble getting right into the mix. My main point though, was to get more people involved, since leadership cannot do everything when they have to concentrate on perfecting themselves also.
It is a lot easier to be focused when you have someone always watching what you do. If you want an efficient rehersal, you need tech's for each section. Leadership should focus more on details of what is going on, while the tech's job is to look at the bigger picture of things and fix those so they are working. Either way, you just need more manpower for a better product with our size of band.
It is a lot easier to be focused when you have someone always watching what you do. If you want an efficient rehersal, you need tech's for each section. Leadership should focus more on details of what is going on, while the tech's job is to look at the bigger picture of things and fix those so they are working. Either way, you just need more manpower for a better product with our size of band.
While I agree that techs for each section would be helpful, there is really nowhere to find techs for a college marching band. The only possibility would be if the studio professors were to come out to rehearsals to be techs, but that isn't very realistic. I am sure the school doesn't have the extra money to bring professional techs from outside the university. If we were a high school band, we could bring in college students to be techs, but it wouldn't really make sense to have a college student be a tech for a college band. The best we can do is let the leadership (both staff people and student leadership) in the band take on a larger role.
jlozer8 wrote:The best we can do is let the leadership (both staff people and student leadership) in the band take on a larger role.
The leadership has the opportunities to take on larger roles. It seems that a lot of the leadership rather not do anything though.
"To the optimist, the glass is half full. To the pessimist, the glass is half empty. To the project manager, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be."
Yeah, I agree, I questioned the Harry Potter Show from the start. For a college marching band, you've got to find that happy medium between exciting the hell out of the fans, and making sure that band is still a worthwhile waste....I mean, "use" of the marchers' time and efforts. Yeah, the Harry Potter show did little to get the crowd excited, and it was DOA. Really, how are you going to get people screaming and yelling (in a good way) about a kids movie/book? You're not. Lets look at Beetlejuice. That came out around 88 or so, so Freshman and Sophomores here were about 2-4 years old when that came out, so I'm sure they have fond memories of that. Admit it, from the standpoint of pleasing and riling up the crowd, WMU kicked our arses.
While I'm at it, lets look at some of our standtunes, shall we?
---Hey Baby; pretty much, its only the band that sings this. If we got 10,000 people singing with us, it'd be different, but it was kind of a lame song 30 years ago even.
---Screamer; When you leave the band, and actually listen to this from across the stadium, you quickly realize that the parts are generally NOT learned, and thus come across muddy, and quiet. From any point in the stadium, this tune sounds pretty bad, and you can see this is true that when its over, ONLY the band cheers.
---Shake a tail Feather; Same as Hey Baby
---And, thats about it, other than the fight songs and BBarrel, which do pretty well. Really, when you hear other bands playing Beyonce, Queen, Green Day, Metallica, Zeppelin...and were playing Bruce Channel's greatest hit, don't you think that we're missing the proverbial boat in our mission as a marching/pep band?
All I'm going to say is this: We are a class act. We are unique. We have a unique sound and a unique style. This is why people do enjoy us. We can be versatile and change things up, and people will still come out to hear what we'll come up with next. One show isn't going to make us lose all of that. Therefore, if you still love the FMB, don't let this one discussion rile you up so much! It's in the past, it can't be changed, and we move forward! Now, if we could just find out when and where we're going Bowling so we could perform Bohemian again!!!!
bgmaggot00 wrote:Really, when you hear other bands playing Beyonce, Queen, Green Day, Metallica, Zeppelin...and were playing Bruce Channel's greatest hit, don't you think that we're missing the proverbial boat in our mission as a marching/pep band?
Go read my comments in the Ohio University Band thread if you want my opinion on that
While I think our stand tunes are boring too, we have a ton we fail to play during the games. We seem to play Eat Em Up after ever first down for a chunk of time, then switch to the fanfare, then to first and ten. Why not mix them up a little? I really don't think any of us should be complaining on here. We need to complain to the people who probably won't listen...
"To the optimist, the glass is half full. To the pessimist, the glass is half empty. To the project manager, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be."
baritonebandgeek - I dont think this discussion is pushing anyone the wrong way. I personally opened up this discussion to a larger/broader topic in order to show that cracking down on the goofing off sections would not necessarily be the right decision. My section is the most guilty for goofing off, it is normal for us to get called out and embarrased at least once a day. For me, that's more than enough to keep me from goofing off, so I dont do it. For others, that doesnt work, even threats to kick them out dont do it. In fact since they threatened to kick this person out, it has made things worse exponentially. So, what do I do? When i get fed up, I crack down too... it works for about five minutes, tops. But instead of yelling every five minutes, making them not to want to be there even more, I do other things that force them to work harder. Instead of doing the normal 3-4 visuals a year, we have done 15. We have also added a 20 yard stick toss, four count box drills/reverse box drills, did cluster drills during sing, sing, sing... five different posing/staging sets, and vocals (which I really could care less for). Even with all this stuff thrown in, there is still way too much time for them to goof off. That is the argument I basically made.
jloser8- I agree with you that techs would be hard to come by, I just suggested that in order to run a more effiecient rehersal... it is a step we will utimately have to take. It is also a step that I do not see the university implementing, which is unfortunant.
McMetz811 & jloser8- I agree that leadership has the opportunity or should take a bigger role in the band. It is what we volunteer for, we are the loyal hardcore band members. However, in the current state, the leadership position is limited at best. In other words, you can only fix what you can see. Metz, you said it best yourself in that you were surprised to see the amount off goofing off that went on when you were on the sidelines. I would love more than anything to stand outside the line a couple times a week so I could teach these kids how to look, act, and play like a bass drummer. As it stands now, I teach phil all day everyday, while the other 66% of my line gets some instruction 30 minutes before rehersal and on tuesday nights 9-11. These two seperate examples show that the role of leadership is limited.
My previous point also explains why marching fundamentals drop off significantly from band camp. At camp, leadership is outside analyzing every move towards perfection. If leadership could stand outside of their sections once or twice a week, marching/playing fundamentals wouldnt decline rapidly. The way the leadership position is set up shows that we throw all this great information out there week one, while weeks two through seventeen leadership loses the opportunity to keep reinforcing the good fundamentals, while the bad fundamentals settle in. It is a battle, but a battle that can be won if leadership can step out and see the bigger picture.
An efficient band that gets things done is a band who sets a fast tempo for rehersal. Why do people walk back to their sets? because they can. It's the simple truth. People know that they are going to wait for you to be set before they start, so there is no point to hurry (for the person who needs reasons to hurry). There has been plenty of times each year that I have run back to a set and waited a minute for others to be set. We all have had that happen. If you want to learn drill quickly, take a hint from a group that puts drill on the field quickly... i.e. drum corps. At pioneer we once learned 32 charts in a two hour block. How did we learn so much drill that quick? We had a guy standing in the middle of the field with a gock block who would yell reset. Six seconds later, he would start tapping off the move. If you weren't set, the entire corps ran a lap. Though i do not expect us to be that efficient or even hardcore enough to run laps, the point of that story would be that the tempo can be set however fast the director wants it. Yes there will be complaining and all that, but if you keep the tempo up people will adjust and set quicker. Bottom line of my argument, people will goof off. You dont have to wait for them or yell at them. Start without them and keep starting without them. Soon enough they will be worried more about getting back to their set than doing unrelated activities.
In the end it is okay to disagree with my viewpoints, everyone is entitled to their own opinions. However, I feel really strong that negative reinforcement only leads to negative reactions. This stems from my personal experiences in drumline at bowling green, dci, and various high schools i have taught. With this last post, I have said all I want to say about that subject and will not post on it anymore, because any more would be beating a dead horse.
bgmaggot00- One of my favorite memories came from the year I was cut from marching band. I remember sitting at a game looking and listening to the band play screamer. Everything was clear and beautiful. It was that day that I wanted nothing more than to be in the FMB, to be part of something that big and that entertaining. Nowadays it sounds like a duck hitting a brick wall. I cannot express in words how sad that this makes me feel.
Bassdrummin wrote:Nowadays it sounds like a duck hitting a brick wall. I cannot express in words how sad that this makes me feel.
Everyone always wants to play it faster and faster yet a majority of the trumpets can't even play it slow. I can play it slow but if we start going too fast I will lose it. No one practices their stand tunes ever so it's not going to sound good if people just pick it up on gameday and play it and then put it away til the next game. Back when you were cut, there were a lot more trumpet music majors in band. Technical wise, they were a hell of a lot better. Times seem to have changed though and we must accept the problems and either fix them or toss the songs.
"To the optimist, the glass is half full. To the pessimist, the glass is half empty. To the project manager, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be."
I've been thinking for a looooong time that stand tunes are neglected when it comes to musicality. We rehearse them during ONE rehearsal in Fundies Week, and... that's it.
Would it be so difficult to have each section required to get stand tunes "checked off" with their leadership-- not necessarily memorized (except for those sections without lyres *coughcough*) but just so they can PLAY it. It would be a pain, sure, but it would probably help a lot.
It's one of those little things that add up to make us only a GOOD band instead of a GREAT one.
Falcon Marching Band member 2002-05
FMB Flicc Squad Leader 2005
Tau Beta Sigma outreach chair 04-05, 05-06
The sun ALWAYS shines on the Falcon Marching Band.
Ok question here. I've seen about all the show the fmb has done. Or well I thought. I don't ever remember seeing Frontiers. Bohemian Rhapsody I remember.(great show) Harry Potter I remember.(hard show I could tell but not as entertaining, yet ive seen some not so entertaining shows at boa win the whole thing before.) I Hear America Singing I remember. (Best thing that has ever been presented on a football field, other than football of course) Of course I was on the field at that time with bgmc. But when did you guys do Frontiers?? As you can tell this is my first time on this board. Its nice, Im surprised I havent heard of it before.
: I'm not accusing anyone in this post... I'm just as guilty as everyone else a lot of the time.)
