Reactions from the past

[Rightupinthere]

You're an idiot.

And then Alumni do $hit like this and it makes me wonder how much they really care about the band now.

MatrixBass does have a point. It is very difficult to perform to a hostile crowd (ask any stand up comic). Also, for whatever reason, show quality tends to drop when we try and perform to both sides of the field. I don't know if it is poor show writing, bad continunity or what, but that has been my expreince.
[/i]However[/i]
I do believe that the purpose of the band is to put on the field the best show we can. By best I mean the best execution of the drill and music that we can. I feel that it is the the responiblity of the Director to decide exactly how to best be entertaining. If the Director feels that we will perform our best and be the most entertaining by only playing to the West/Home stands, so be it.

There is some truth to the "marching only for us" concept though. Anyone remember Frontiers? I clearly remember a show that was "for us". Most of us marching, and Doc H if I remember correctly, didn't care what the crowd reaction was. We just wanted to perform our show. Now, that show did recieve thunderous ovations, and was well liked by performer and crowd alike. So there is some truth that things do go both ways. However, Fliccgirl is right. It is very easy to make a crowd turn negitive. It doesn't take much. It is extremly difficult to take a hostile crowd and turn them in your favor.

I think I've ranted enough/too much. I shall leave you at this impass. Have a nice day.[/i]

You have no idea how much I care about the FMB. My question to you and matrixbass: Is putting on the best show possible AND creating an entertaining show mutually EXCLUSIVE?

I will await your answer. I"m terribly busy today with high level meetings, but I will return as soon as I can.

[goofyeuph]

I never said, nor did I mean to indicated that putting on a good show and an entertaining show were mutually exclusive. I simply was trying to convey that they don't always go hand in hand. I'm sorry if I didn't make that point entirely clear. I was trying to show that as a member of the band, we can't do too much to make a show entertaining if the music and the drill suck. We can, and do, everything we can to perform what we have been given to the best of our ablity. If the shows are still not entertaining enough, that is a problem best taken up with the director.

As for how much you care about the FMB...I have no doubt that you do have strong feelings for and fond memories of the FMB. If you didn't we wouldn't be having this argument now. However I feel that in order to care about the organization you should also care about the members that currently make it up. Flatly coming out and stating that someone is an idiot without some form of reasoning to support such a claim is very disrespectful. To me showing that you don't respect the current or recent members of the band shows you don't respect the current or recent band.

I understand you are busy, so am I. I am posting this between classes. The fact that you are taking the time to discuss this issue at such lengths is a sign that you do care about the band. Thank you for your time.

[goofyeuph]

Rightupinthere,

I think I figured out what at least part of our arguement. I don't think I've been entirely clear on what my personal feelings are regarding the band's role during halftime.

As a whole, I feel that our band is there for entertainment. Nothing more, nothing less. If the crowd is not entertained, then something within the band is wrong, and should be addressed.

HOWEVER...As a member of the band, my job is to perform at the best of my ablities. I do not feel that a poorly performed show is entertaining, so I must do what I can to make sure I can perform a great show.

I feel that it is the Directors, Assitants, TA's and so forth to program and write a show that, when done right, will be entertaining.

I hope that clears things up somewhat, since I have a feeling that deep down we're arguing the same point to one another.

[MatrixBass3]

Well, first, to Flicc Girl, who asked who I am. It's Justin Fujka. My screen name is relative to the Independent World Class drumline of which I am a member. Secondly, apparently there is no sense or sarcasm on this forum, at least for some people. It seems as if everyone can get on here and share their opinions of what is good and what is not, however, when I share mine, albeit that they are not congruent with most others on here, I get ridiculed. To Matt Lyons, yes, I am a music education major and currently work with several very fine programs. If you want to know something about performance, come see an indoor drumline show, particularly with the group I am in, called Matrix. Our goal is completely to entertain a crowd, but we never lose sight of a great show and nothing less than excellence in music. Now, what that means getting with the times. Show band stuff was the thing 20 years ago, but it's slowly fading away. Has anyone here seen the Massillon marching band? Those kids do not play well, in time, or with good tone. They are missing out on some music education. Contrary to what everyone on here may think, the education of the students is the foremost in my mind; but we must teach through excellence, not mediocrity and cheese. I cannot believe that this is such a huge problem on here. I am fortunate enough to teach 3 nights a week and I have 16 private students, as well as being an associate scholastic educator and private lesson teacher for Vic Firth. Apparently I somehow achieved this by being an idiot, but just remember my name and give this idiot a call if you ever want a good drumline. Oh yeah, and just to cover my bases right now. For those out there who think competion in music is bad, I'll address that. Awards are not something to be sought out, they are a byproduct of hard work and excellence. It would be very frustrating if you never got a benchmark of what level of performance and musical achievement you have attained. (This is at the scholastic level.) In high school, I didn't understand how to simply enjoy performance for myself, and most high school kids don't. It's hard to figure it out, and quite honestly, getting a rating for high schoolers is very important. If the rating is poor, they learn two things. Firstly, how they performed, and what they need to do to get better. Secondly, and more importantly, they learn how to deal with disappointment. In a world where everyone wants every kid to feel good about everything they do, we are able to teach a great life lesson through competition.

I think it very rude and quite honestly poor taste for someone to hope that I am not a music educator. If you want to come out and watch me teach, that's fine too, I have nothing to defend to anyone here because I am succeeding at the thing which is most important, and that is teaching music to kids. BGSU is an education establishment and it only makes sense that we ought to further educate the members of the FMB, even if the cost is a less entertaining show.

Lastly, it all depends on what everyone's idea of entertainment is. In the south, bands like those in the movie drumline are entertaining. I, on the other hand, am disgusted by watching them. The drill doesn't accompany the music, from a drummer's standpoint, the drumlines are terrible, and the shows are just filled with "flash trash." My idea of entertaining is when I go hear a corps or a really good high school band and there is a great amount of precision, comprehensive drill and show continuity. If you still don't know what I mean, watch any Santa Clara Vanguard show since 1987 when they did Russian Christmas Music and you'll understand. That's what makes me excited, but I guess on this forum it's just not acceptable. With that, I think I'll go to my favorite drumline forum and discuss REAL issues like tuning drums, stick choices, musical phrasing ideas, and other things of that nature.

But remember, I'm just an idiot who shouldn't be teaching kids.

[SaxyOboist]

<cough> I would like to point out, and maybe it's just me thinking this? But honestly, being a person in an instrumental section in the FMB is way different then being in the Drumline in the FMB. The Drumline rehearses far differently than the other sections that I've observed. Your experiences in the FMB may have been totally different than 200 other people in the FMB. Times are different than when you were in it. I don't remember you marching last year, and I know you didn't march this year.

There is no way to compare your level of "fun" with someone elses level of "fun" regarding marching. I had a lot of fun my 4 years in marching band. I was in it for the educational experience and to have fun and meet new people. Marching band is supposed to be fun and educational to the people in it. If people on the sideline get educated, well, that's just a byproduct of it all. The main point of halftime and for a marching band to go out there is to entertain the crowd. Not just the home side, but the entire crowd. I wouldn't object to the band playing a little bit to the away side, but I would object if it was done in a fashion that would leave the other side feeling gypped out of a song. ( for ex. if the mb switched playing to sides in the middle of a song).

There is a fine line between overly educating a band along with the crowd (aka "boring" them) and entertaining both the band and the crowd.

Personally, I'd like it if the crowd was more enthused at a football game.

And I'm rambling.

[Rightupinthere]

Where to begin.

How about here:
MatrixBass was quoted as saying

I'M TIRED OF PEOPLE THINKING THAT THE PRIMARY JOB OF THE BAND IS TO ENTERTAIN ALL OF THE DRUNK IDIOTS IN THE STANDS!!!!! What about giving the people in the band a show to be proud of. I guess back in the late 80's and those times no one cared if the show was cool........or rather the general idea of what a good show has changed in the overall mind of the personnel of the band.

You are basically saying here that all sex entails is a Hooters calendar and a bottle of hand cream. What is the point of performing anything when there is no one around to witness/enjoy it? That's what you are saying. That is why I called you an idiot. The whole premise you hold that a band of any level is not entertaining is ludicrous.
And you're missing something here: The FMB ISN'T a competition band nor should it be. It is designed specifically to entertain the crowd and to support the team (your fellow students) in their endeavors.
And, much as you may dislike what I'm about to say, you must TARGET YOUR AUDIENCE.
There were many instances when I was in band when we tore the place up. It wasn't always dancing as you so eloquently stated (although I remember bringing down the Doyt when we danced to "Da Butt"). I challenge you to find a 1991 tape and listen JUST the opening to Star Wars. It sounded like a symphony. Our sound in '91 was FAR greater than the current edition of the FMB. Remember something: I've heard the FMB of the past and I've heard the FMB of the present. You cannot say as much.

I don't know what your idea of a "show band" is. I'm sure you have some idea of OU or similar. That is not what I have in mind at all. I think it more of the "Pops" style symphony versus the standard orchestra.

We didn't have the best looking shows. Our fundamentals were flawed especially late in the season. Our shows, however, were loved by the audience. The FMB wasn't a competition band. Jay Jackson always said that our only competition was Hot Dogs and Cokes (we usually won, by the way).
Every show we laid it all out there and we had warm receptions most every time. Why? Because the directors did a fantastic job of TARGETING OUR AUDIENCE.

I called you an idiot. Two reasons: you spoke out of ignorance regarding the FMB of the past. You don't know the shows we put on. You don't know the reception we received. You just don't know. Second reason: your obvious view that a band can and should exist regardless of the audience.

Finally, then I'm off to goofyeuph, You believe that pleasing the audience and having a show "the band can be proud of" are mutally exclusive. You are destined to bore a great many people with your halftime shows......I mean show (singular) because at the high school level you will be the type of director who will have only one show for the entire season.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

PS: Have fun with that calendar.

[Rightupinthere]

I never said, nor did I mean to indicated that putting on a good show and an entertaining show were mutually exclusive. I simply was trying to convey that they don't always go hand in hand.

But they should if the director is doing his/her job.

I'm sorry if I didn't make that point entirely clear. I was trying to show that as a member of the band, we can't do too much to make a show entertaining if the music and the drill suck. We can, and do, everything we can to perform what we have been given to the best of our ablity. If the shows are still not entertaining enough, that is a problem best taken up with the director.

We agree here. But every show can and should be like this.

As for how much you care about the FMB...I have no doubt that you do have strong feelings for and fond memories of the FMB. If you didn't we wouldn't be having this argument now. However I feel that in order to care about the organization you should also care about the members that currently make it up. Flatly coming out and stating that someone is an idiot without some form of reasoning to support such a claim is very disrespectful.

I believe if you read matrix and his obvious and ignorant slight on the FMB of the late 80's you would see that my disrespect wasn't unwarranted. And I really didn't think I would need to support my statement after such an agregious post. Specifically that the audience didn't matter and marching bands do not exist to entertain.

Facing the opposite stands does not lose any intensity of the show if performed correctly. I don't know who is feeding you what. You can't tell me that playing ONE song out of FOUR to the opposite side is going to ruin the entire show.

This is probably just a myth started by the corp establishment who belive a 'bout hace is below their skill level. (I'm kidding, kids.)

[ZiggyZoomba]

Does anyone have the capability to put the screamer on mp3? Grant, how did u get the your songs online as mp3s?

OhioGal - can your husband still put the 91 tape on CD for me (us?)

If someone can get me a recording, I can get it in MP3... I don't think it's on any of my tapes... but let me look around a little. I might be able to find it.

[Falcon30]

As a real band director, I have some things to add.

My wife always told me that the fans loved, and I mean LOVED the country show the band took to WVU in 1991. Yee-haw it sounded corny (very well-played, but it was hokey music). But the fans loved it.

Once in my life, I had a perfect MB moment. In 1992, we took Dave Weiser's (grad assistant) show on the road. We took over the Strongsville vs Midpark halftime show. My memory fails me sometimes, but I think it was the "music of the night" show. At the end of the last piece of the show (what I really remember was the emotion of the moment) the whole band crammed up at the 50 at the end of the tune. about 200 of us plastered those poor Strongsville people to their seats. It was beautiful, it was epic...I knew people in both High Schools' bands...I felt SO Proud.

We got a rousing, spontaneous standing ovation. It was awesome. (then of course, sparks threw on another song to fill time, so the effect of the finale was lost, but I digress...)

We did that same show in Akron the next day with great anticipation. the whole band was pumped. It got a nice, polite round of applause.

To this day, I still don't get it. We killed them that day. I know we are the opposition on the football field, but that show should have had at least a similar reaction.

Different crowds react differently to different shows. Whenever we did hokey crap I thought was LAME, the audience loved it.

Entertainment at BGSU has to come second. Throw the crowd a bone once in a while, but that crowd doesn't like anything good. Even when we did broadway, people didn't get into it.

Matrix - you love drum corps (so do I - Santa Clara is my fave) but I would guess that the percentage of people in a BG Football crowd who like it would be a lot lower than on this board. I know a bunch of football people like Ohio University's band. Many of us here have quite different opinions about the 110.

Yes, a good show can be entertaining, but are you saying the FMB isn't good? Entertaining shows aren't always good. I have seen competition bands in ohio that bore me stiff which get "I" ratings because they don't make mistakes. There are no college MB competitions that I know of (until forwardmarch.org gets up and running )and they all have to be show bands.

There is a lot to digest, but entertaining and good are not intertwined completely. the FMB has to maintain a very high level of music to keep the band interested and be educationally justified. Entertainment in addition to that is hard, no doubt. It isn't like the FMB is trying to be bland, but due to time and football game constraints, they can't be a drum corp (although frontiers gave us a reasonable facsimilie) and they can't be Ohio U.

It takes a great deal more to have mass-appeal and be playing high level music needed for teacher training.

[SaxyOboist]

I have a pretty good mp3 of bg playing screamer. I have no clue what year it was since I acquired it from Adam Bishop about 4 years ago, but if anyone wants me to upload it to my website so you can download it, I will.

[Rightupinthere]

Once in my life, I had a perfect MB moment. In 1992, we took Dave Weiser's (grad assistant) show on the road. We took over the Strongsville vs Midpark halftime show. My memory fails me sometimes, but I think it was the "music of the night" show. At the end of the last piece of the show (what I really remember was the emotion of the moment) the whole band crammed up at the 50 at the end of the tune. about 200 of us plastered those poor Strongsville people to their seats. It was beautiful, it was epic...I knew people in both High Schools' bands...I felt SO Proud.

We got a rousing, spontaneous standing ovation. It was awesome. (then of course, sparks threw on another song to fill time, so the effect of the finale was lost, but I digress...)

We did that same show in Akron the next day with great anticipation. the whole band was pumped. It got a nice, polite round of applause.

To this day, I still don't get it. We killed them that day. I know we are the opposition on the football field, but that show should have had at least a similar reaction.

Was that the Malaguena show? I believe it was. Aranjuez, La Fiesta (the trumpet nailed their part on Fri) and Malaguena.

[goofyeuph]

Rightupinthere,

I've been awaiting your response all day. I'm glad to see you got back on here.

I never said, nor did I mean to indicated that putting on a good show and an entertaining show were mutually exclusive. I simply was trying to convey that they don't always go hand in hand.

But they should if the director is doing his/her job.[\quote]

The director doesn't always do their job. I agree, if the director does their job correctly a well performed show and an entertaining show will go hand in hand. What I'm trying to get at is that we are all only human, despite how hard we try not too be. Every so often something happens, a bad programing choice, weather prohibitive of good outdoor rehearsals, a hostile crowd on Saturday afternoon, and the show can come out as not very entertaining. My post have been from the point of view of someone who has just finished this year and is responding as a member of the band. I am not trying to think like a director in my post, which is why I've been trying to use the "Us and We" language.

[quote\] Facing the opposite stands does not lose any intensity of the show if performed correctly. I don't know who is feeding you what. You can't tell me that playing ONE song out of FOUR to the opposite side is going to ruin the entire show.

This is probably just a myth started by the corp establishment who belive a 'bout hace is below their skill level. (I'm kidding, kids.)

Playing to the "Home" side, or just to one side during a show is just the way I was brought up. You're proably right, it most likely stems from DCI. Playing to both sides of the field can be done. I persoanlly feel that this is more difficult, however. I'm not saying that it shouldn't be done, or that it can't be done. I'm saying that personally, I would rather play to one side or the other. I think it would be best if we agree to disagree on this matter.

I'm actually kinda glad that we've had this dicussion (in a really weird and bizzare way). It has been interesting to get an insight into what I'm sure at least part of the alumni of the FMB are thinking and feel. It would be hard to call this dicussion fun, but it has been interesting and somewhat enjoyable. When and if I get my own band, Rightupinthere (and anyone else on here) you have a standing invite to come and watch. Hopefully I can meet you around sometime so I can actually put a face with the screename.

[Ohiogal]

I think I can sum all of this up with this: Mr. Kelly; those of us that have served under him and those of you that haven't (unfortunately).

I've been silently following this forum, mostly waiting for rightupinthere to post his two-cents. Why? Because we think alike and were in band together for five years. We have the same philosophy and it stems from our high school experiences (my HS director was a BGSU alum) but mostly our college experience. We got the pleasure of having Mr. Kelly around. And I'll take the liberty of stating that our philosophy of how a marching band should be is directly influenced by Mr. Go Get 'Em Tigers himself. We want to carry on his tradition and that's why we're so passionate about how the FMB is because HE was passionate about it when we were in band. We just want all you current and future FMB members to have some of that passion.

In all, we alums post 'cause we care. And we're the ones that come back every homecoming to carry on the tradition but mostly to relive our glory days (even though I can't remember them as well as the rest of you).

[Rightupinthere]

Playing to the "Home" side, or just to one side during a show is just the way I was brought up. You're proably right, it most likely stems from DCI. Playing to both sides of the field can be done. I persoanlly feel that this is more difficult, however. I'm not saying that it shouldn't be done, or that it can't be done. I'm saying that personally, I would rather play to one side or the other. I think it would be best if we agree to disagree on this matter.

There was a summer I really wanted to try out for Phantom Regiment. I had to work instead. Corp has it's place and I love corp as a genre. I don't believe corp should be utilized to entertain the masses, however. It's like playing Beethoven at a sock hop (yes, I'm showing my age, back off).

I'm actually kinda glad that we've had this dicussion (in a really weird and bizzare way). It has been interesting to get an insight into what I'm sure at least part of the alumni of the FMB are thinking and feel. It would be hard to call this dicussion fun, but it has been interesting and somewhat enjoyable. When and if I get my own band, Rightupinthere (and anyone else on here) you have a standing invite to come and watch. Hopefully I can meet you around sometime so I can actually put a face with the screename.

What else are you going to put to my face?

Alumni love the FMB - unconditionally. We have seen the highs and the lows. We feel the pain and share the joy. We were you. We know. We 'get it' as far as criticism goes. I was heavily criticized my first year at DM because I wasn't Pat Pearson. I didn't have as good a tan. Ohiogal was criticized even more for a host of reasons - mostly because she was the first chick to be a DM (and she was better at DM than I was.*)

I stated that the FMB is far and away the best I have seen them since graduating. I am very optimistic about your future as you should be. I just want some songs pointed towards Cleveland. That's all.


*Don't get cocky, Delaine, I'm still the better conductor........well, except for Firebird. 3/4, 4/4, 2/4, 3/4, 4/4, 3/4. Just screw it and conduct in 1.

[Ohiogal]

and Firebird was about the only one that I thought I conducted well! ha!

maybe I needed more conducting lessons during fundamentals!

Then again, I didn't get the gig 'cause of my conducting skills.