Insider.com blurb about Omar...

Flipper · Post by **Flipper** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 8:37 am

My concern with VInce Young is the same concern I have with Mike Vick. In the NFL "running QB's" face a much greater risk of injury than a smart pocket passer who gets the ball out of there and maybe takes the incompletion rather than the sack. Vick will take off and risk getting popped by a LB or a DB rather than take the sack.

The added dimension might be a great thing to have for a few years. But sooner rather than later, it'll catch up to them and that aspect of their game will be greatly diminshed.

MACMAN · Post by **MACMAN** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 10:15 am

I see young declaring after the bowl game, and i see Omar taken in the second round. My feeling is this that if Omar goes, and he is taken in the 2nd he could benifit, from the time under a vetran qb as he adjusts to the speed of the nfl. The team that takes Omar in the draft is most likely not looking for an out of the box starter, or even a next season starter, but a QB to mature and grow in a system who if called upon will be a quality back up. Then he will move into the starting position.
I see Cleveland shoping for QBS again but dont know if they will take a draft pick for one or trade for another old vet as FRY has the spot in Cleveland, GB has a good back up behind farve but farves years are winding down and to pick up a young qb this year or next is a good move, Okland may be thinking about late round QB as well from some info around the web.
Omar is Top prospect at QB if he enters the draft he will be drafted, if he waits his stock may well go up, but with caps and such next year I am sure that is a big part of the equation.
i wish he would stay, and complete his goal of a MACC with Brandon, and maybe just maybe beat OSU and WI next year

Im_Full · Post by **Im_Full** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 10:53 am

Flipper wrote:My concern with VInce Young is the same concern I have with Mike Vick. In the NFL "running QB's" face a much greater risk of injury than a smart pocket passer who gets the ball out of there and maybe takes the incompletion rather than the sack. Vick will take off and risk getting popped by a LB or a DB rather than take the sack.

The added dimension might be a great thing to have for a few years. But sooner rather than later, it'll catch up to them and that aspect of their game will be greatly diminshed.

That is my belief too. A running QB is nice, but a liability. Another common misperception with Young that you see alot is that he's gonna be as mobile and run around like Bambi in the NFL. No. Certainly not if he's taken by a horrible team at the top of the draft. To utilize Young effectively, you better have a damn good blocking scheme in place. And if some clueless team like Detroit takes him, forget it. You'll never hear of him again.

Germainfitch1 · Post by **Germainfitch1** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 11:38 am

hammb wrote:
Im_Full wrote: That is frequently used against him, and it's so perplexing for that reason. People just buy into the hype on Vince Young hook line and sinker, and the common fan doesn't even think twice about saying "Omar has bad mechanics" and then in the next breath "Vince Young is a future NFL star". They don't put enough thought or analysis into their thoughts. They just buy whatever they hear on Sportscenter. Oh Vince Young is great? Oh, ok.
Vince Young IS a future NFL star. He does have horrible mechanics, but he's also got a cannon for an arm. I also think that he gets more of a pass on his mechanics because he's more mobile. Omar is going to be a stand in the pocket passer, so people are more concerned about his mechanics. Personally, I'm not a mechanics guy. So long as you're stepping into throws (which Omar does & VY DOES NOT), and are able to get the mustard on an accurate pass, I don't care how you're throwing it. Both of those guys are plenty tall enough that they don't need a pure over-the-top release to get the ball out of there like a smaller guy would. Vince will improve his mechanics greatly when he gets to the NFL, IMO. I actually read an article where Mack Brown basically said he doesn't coach VY, he just tells him to go out there and be himself. Great attitude coach . Once he gets into the league he'll get some actual coaching and he'll be a star, he's got a lot more natural ability than Omar, which is really saying something.

Honestly, Vince Young has a HORRIBLE sidewinder release that just boggles my mind when I see mock drafts with him going in the top 5 of the draft. Good luck coaching this guy up to NFL standards. And on Omar, he would be no worse than a 2nd round pick if he declared. Anyone saying he is a day 2 day hasn't a friggin' clue how these QBs are tiered or how this draft is likely to shake out. To say he's a day 2 pick would basically lump him with Charlie Whitehurst or Brett Basanez. He is clearly a tier ahead of those guys.
Omar is not a day 2 pick. He's got prototype size, all the arm strength, and he's had one season of terrific numbers, with one year of pretty darn good numbers. He'll be a first day pick, probably the top 2 rounds. I do think it is possible he slips to round 3, simply looking at draft history and how QBs are in the 2nd, but I don't see how he drops out of the first day.

I do...lack of leadership, system QB, strong QB class, poor schedule

hammb · Post by **hammb** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:01 pm

Germainfitch1 wrote: I do...lack of leadership, system QB, strong QB class, poor schedule

Depending on what other Juniors declare this is one of the worst QB classes in recent memory. There is only 1 senior that anybody thinks has any real chance at becoming an NFL starter, and that is Leinart. Guys like Cutler, Shockley, Whitehurst, etc, are the next tier of senior QBs and none of them are much of a prospect. I wouldn't be surprised if Leinart is the only Senior QB taken in the first day.

I question his leadership, and he's obviously a system QB, but the schedule argument is irrelevant. Carr, Pennington, Culpepper, Leftwich, and Roethlisberger have all proven to be top 15 pick QBs playing a similar schedule to ours. McNair went in the top 10 by playing in DII. The scouts will look at him, not his competition when putting a grade on him.

Redwingtom · Post by **Redwingtom** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:24 pm

hammb wrote:
Germainfitch1 wrote: I do...lack of leadership, system QB, strong QB class, poor schedule
Depending on what other Juniors declare this is one of the worst QB classes in recent memory. There is only 1 senior that anybody thinks has any real chance at becoming an NFL starter, and that is Leinart. Guys like Cutler, Shockley, Whitehurst, etc, are the next tier of senior QBs and none of them are much of a prospect. I wouldn't be surprised if Leinart is the only Senior QB taken in the first day.

I question his leadership, and he's obviously a system QB, but the schedule argument is irrelevant. Carr, Pennington, Culpepper, Leftwich, and Roethlisberger have all proven to be top 15 pick QBs playing a similar schedule to ours. McNair went in the top 10 by playing in DII. The scouts will look at him, not his competition when putting a grade on him.

Don't overlook that first day recruit from the school up north

1987alum · Post by **1987alum** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:35 pm

I don't proclaim to be half the draftnik that hammb is, but he certainly seems spot on to me. I haven't heard much buzz about the QBs in this draft. Like he said, you hear about Leinart and Young, but it's not like the Elway/Marino class.

Hammb: Two question for you based on this ...

1) I suspect the lack of QB depth in this draft would have Omar leaning toward declaring. I know it's speculative, but does the 2007 class look deeper?

2) Where do you see the depth in this year's draft? I'm hearing a lot about RBs & LBs.

Warthog · Post by **Warthog** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 1:36 pm

Here's a sampling of some mock draft websites. There are some inconsistencies in that all of them do not include underclassman.

These guys have Whitehurst listed ahead on Omar, but project Omar for the first round http://www.sportznutz.com/nfl/draft/

Omar 4th behind Young, Leinhart, Cutler http://football.about.com/cs/positional ... qbrank.htm

Omar not mentioned in top 21 QBs

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/rankings/qb.html

Omar going ninth overall to Arizona (Omar and Leinart pictured in the banner)
http://www.nfldraftblitz.com/mock_draft.htm

These guys are actually already touting Nick Davis for the 2009 draft!

http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/prof ... ng%20Green

Jacobs third, ahead of VY http://www.footballsfuture.com/2006/prospects/qb.html

Omar to the Cardinals again, but this time in the second round http://condraft.com/mock.php?PHPSESSID= ... c7ac0c&r=2

Omar 30th to the Broncos http://www.football.com/draft/2006/mcco ... raft.shtml

hammb · Post by **hammb** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 2:08 pm

1987alum wrote:I don't proclaim to be half the draftnik that hammb is, but he certainly seems spot on to me. I haven't heard much buzz about the QBs in this draft. Like he said, you hear about Leinart and Young, but it's not like the Elway/Marino class.

Hammb: Two question for you based on this ...

1) I suspect the lack of QB depth in this draft would have Omar leaning toward declaring. I know it's speculative, but does the 2007 class look deeper?

Absolutely. Next year's class looks pretty good, obviously it's dependent on what the Juniors do. If I work under the assumption that VY declares early and is the only Jr. (other than Omar) to do so next year's class still looks pretty good. Right now the only one next year who would be definitely ahead of Omar is Quinn, who could be the #1 pick with another year like this one.

However, there is a lot of talent that could possibly surpass Omar with good seasons next year. Names that come to mind are Marcus Vick, Chris Leak, JaMarcus Russel, Drew Stanton, Reggie Ball, Tyler Palko, and even Troy Smith. All of those are guys that Omar is clearly going to be ranking ahead of right now (with the possible exception of Vick), but could surpass him after next season. At the very least they'd be stiffer competition than what he's getting in this year's class. I think it's pretty clear that most people have this year's class with Leinart & Young at the top, then Jacobs. If Quinn were to declare he'd go ahead of Jacobs as well. Still he's pretty much a lock for the 4th QB taken, IMO, this season. He's the only one that offers such a huge upside with also having put up great numbers in college. Assuming he returns to ND Brady Quinn is next season's Matt Leinart as the surefire top pick guy, but there are a lot more guys that could vault themselves into the 2-5th ranked QB slots.

Omar's dilemma is whether he wants to come out this year as the 3rd-4th QB taken (likely late first-early third), or come back next year and try to become the 2nd QB taken. The 2nd QB taken is usually going to put you in the top 15-25 spots, but he would have to put up good stats to stay ahead of the aforementioned guys. I'm not sure it's a gamble that I'd take, and the more I look at it, the less I think we'll be seeing him in Orange & Brown next year (unless he's backing up Charlie Frye).

2) Where do you see the depth in this year's draft? I'm hearing a lot about RBs & LBs.

This is actually an OUTSTANDING draft in certain areas. I cannot remember the last time I've seen this much LB talent in the draft. For years there have been very few first round LBs, but with guys like Ryans, Greenway, and Hawk there will be some good ones taken early. Ahmad Brooks might be the best LB of the bunch, but had a VERY injury plagued season, so I'm not sure if he declares.

There is definitely some top notch tailback talent in this draft as well. Reggie Bush is the most surefire prospect in awhile. That guy changes games. I'm a huge fan of D'Angelo Williams, but he has slipped on boards because of some wierd situation around the Tennessee game this past year. Laurence Maroney is a top 20 talent at RB. Lendale White will probably declare as well and will go in the first 45 picks most likely. Gerald Riggs from Tennessee, Maurice Drew from UCLA, and Michael Bush (if he declares) will add quality RB depth to the mix.

This is one of the better OT drafts in recent memory as well. D'Brickashaw Ferguson, Marcus McNeill, Eric Winston and Winston Justice (if he declares) could all slip into the first round. Beyond them there is a LOT of depth with both Tackles from Texas, and Colledge from Boise could go as high as the early 2nd as well. There is a LOT of OT talent in this draft, teams could find future starters at LT as late as the early 3rd round...that's saying something for a position that usually requires a first round investment.

There are some very high quality DL guys at the top of the draft with Mathias Kiwanuka, Mario Williams (who will likely declare), and Haloti Ngata. Williams & Kiwi are the premier ends with a pretty big dropoff behind them. Ngata is the premier interior guy (and the best NT prospect for 3-4 teams in probably 4-5 years). Behind him there are other quality DTs though with names like Rodrique Wright, Claude Wroten, Jesse Mahelona, and even Gabe Watson is still a likely first day pick.

Those are probably the top tier positions in this draft. There is one premier DB (Jimmy Williams, VTech). There are some talented Junior CBs that could land in the top 60 picks if they declare. The QB class, as we mentioned is weak.

Also this is possibly the worst WR class I can remember. Jason Avant & Martin Nance are probably two of the best Seniors, and I don't see either of them as first rounders. There are some talented Juniors like Santonio Holmes & Greg Lee, but I think Holmes might be the only first round lock at WR in this draft (if he declares). That said, WR is a wierd position. If a guy like Sinorice Moss (or anyone else) goes out and blisters a top notch 40 time they'll skyrocket, they always do. Look at last year's #7 overall pick, Williamson. The guy had like 750 yards receiving his senior year, but went in the top 10 based on 40 time alone. I'm sure somebody will skyrocket by turning in impressive combine stats, but there is very little in the way of actual skilled WRs who also have good athletic ability.

On the whole it's a pretty good draft if you're not looking for a QB or WR. Very strong at RB, OL, LB, and decent on the DL.

h2oville rocket · Post by **h2oville rocket** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 2:50 pm

[quote="MACMAN"]I see young declaring after the bowl game, and i see Omar taken in the second round.
A couple people have mentioned second round which is interesting. Apparantly there have been no QBs taken in second round for last 4 years. Not really sure why? I am pulling for first round and HUGE dollars so there is no question about him coming back next year!

Germainfitch1 · Post by **Germainfitch1** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 3:00 pm

Agree with most of that.

Tackle is very good this year

DTackle has a stud and 4 or 5 guys who everyone doesnt know where to put, they have tons of talent but are not world beaters.

2 stud ends with Dumervil potentially moving up despite his lack of heigth.

I expect Lendale White to skyrocket and be the second back taken.

This Qb class is not much different than last years I would say. 1 or 2 guys at the top....4 or 5 around rounds 3-5. Guys who have potential or who teams think are smart enough to develop into solid backups for young starters. IMO Omar falls in the round 3-5 category right now.

Im_Full · Post by **Im_Full** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 4:50 am

1987alum wrote:I don't proclaim to be half the draftnik that hammb is, but he certainly seems spot on to me. I haven't heard much buzz about the QBs in this draft. Like he said, you hear about Leinart and Young, but it's not like the Elway/Marino class.

Hammb: Two question for you based on this ...

1) I suspect the lack of QB depth in this draft would have Omar leaning toward declaring. I know it's speculative, but does the 2007 class look deeper?

2) Where do you see the depth in this year's draft? I'm hearing a lot about RBs & LBs.

Not for nothing, but he can't be much of a draftnik if he thinks Leinart is the only senior QB worthy of starting. Jay Cutler is moving into that range and could very well be a top 15 pick when all is said and done. Darrell Hackney is also on the rise. The Senior Bowl will be televised. Watch them all.

OSUFALCON · Post by **OSUFALCON** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 10:46 am

Word is unless Omar can be taken for sure in the first two rounds he stays. He enjoys school and would like to get his degree. If the NFL says he has a 90% chance to go in round 1 or 2 then he's gone. I think he will stay. If any of you ran an NFL team would you take him in the 1st or 2nd round? 3rd or 4th yes.

hammb · Post by **hammb** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 11:14 am

Im_Full wrote: Not for nothing, but he can't be much of a draftnik if he thinks Leinart is the only senior QB worthy of starting. Jay Cutler is moving into that range and could very well be a top 15 pick when all is said and done. Darrell Hackney is also on the rise. The Senior Bowl will be televised. Watch them all.

I've never seen Cutler play, and I've never been overly impressed by the numbers he's put up. Perhaps its because he plays on a lousy Vandy team, and he's really good? I don't know, because I've never gotten to see him play.

I keep reading that he has all the tools and he could be a top 15 pick, but I'm just not convinced. Some publications have him really high, others say he's just a first day pick. I'll be anxious to see the senior bowl, and maybe I'll change my tune. Right now he strikes me as a better version of Kyle Boller. A guy who looks to have all the tools, but never really dominated in college. His numbers aren't as dismal as Boller's, but they don't jump off the page at you either.

I don't know why, but right now it seems as though Cutler is one of those guys that all the draft gurus on the internet tout up because they want to be the first to say they knew of him. I'll hold off on thinking he's the next great thing until I at least see him play.

Jacobs4Heisman · Post by **Jacobs4Heisman** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 11:58 am

Im_Full wrote:
1987alum wrote:I don't proclaim to be half the draftnik that hammb is, but he certainly seems spot on to me. I haven't heard much buzz about the QBs in this draft. Like he said, you hear about Leinart and Young, but it's not like the Elway/Marino class.

Hammb: Two question for you based on this ...

1) I suspect the lack of QB depth in this draft would have Omar leaning toward declaring. I know it's speculative, but does the 2007 class look deeper?

2) Where do you see the depth in this year's draft? I'm hearing a lot about RBs & LBs.
Not for nothing, but he can't be much of a draftnik if he thinks Leinart is the only senior QB worthy of starting. Jay Cutler is moving into that range and could very well be a top 15 pick when all is said and done. Darrell Hackney is also on the rise. The Senior Bowl will be televised. Watch them all.

Didn't you tell me a couple weeks ago I was nuts if I thought Cutler would go ahead of Omar?

Insider.com blurb about Omar...

Re: Omar will be a2nd day pick....uh. NOPE!

Re: Omar will be a2nd day pick....uh. NOPE!

Re: Omar will be a2nd day pick....uh. NOPE!