FMB Tradition Origins?

jlozer8 · Post by **jlozer8** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 1:38 pm

goofyeuph wrote:ok...I understand that the drill is more difficult now than a few years ago. Anyone who has been involved with the band over the last few years would understand that. HOWEVER...the average person, and the average alumni member, doesn't understand that. The problem that I am seeing, and matrixbass too, is the sense of complicacy that seems to have worked it's way into the band. Personally, I don't care how hard the show, or the music is. Anything less than the absolute best is not good enough, imo. The band is good, however I see that the band could be so much better. Yea, I have no doubt the band could march a box type drill with no problem, and make it look good. I do have some doubts that the band could make it great. I have a feeling that there would be some type of a "oh this is only a simple box drill" throughout enough of the band so that the show would only be good. The real sticking point I find though is that I've seen the band march more difficult drill, with more difficult music, at a higher level of percision and skill. I saw the Broadway, Hip Hop, and Video Game shows. They were all good, but I think they could have been great. I get the feeling more and more that I am in a vocal minority. There is one thing I want to make very clear. I support the FMB in everything you do. I might not like what you do, or how you do it, but I am extremely happy that you are doing what you do. 4 of the best years of my life were spent in the FMB, and there's no way I could trun my back on something that is as big a part of me as this. Keep up all of your good work, but I also challenge you to NEVER stop, and NEVER be statisfied with what you have done. ALWAYS strive to improve by leaps and bounds, not just by inches and feet.

I am assuming that by "complicacy" you mean "complacency," and I personally am not complacent with what the FMB does. I am the kind of person that is never satisfied with anything less than perfection, so there are always going to be things that can be done better. Nowhere did I ever say the the FMB has reached it's full potential. I am just arguing (not trying to argue with any person specifically, just the idea) that the 2005 FMB was overall better than the 2002 FMB. Sure, if we had done box drill type shows this year, people would grumble about and it may not come out great, BUT that was exactly how it was in 2002 as well. None of our shows were "great" because of all the grumbling about the easiness of the drill. Either way you do it, box drills, or more difficult drill, there are always going to be people that don't like it, so you just have to choose one way and stick with it, and that is what is being done. There is no way to make everyone happy.

MatrixBass3 · Post by **MatrixBass3** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 1:48 pm

It's not about excusing things because it's harder. Bad step offs are bad step offs, no matter what the drill is. Being out of step is being out of step no matter what. Again, I do not think this is a problem that arises from the members, it's from too many people being let in. It's from a lack of motivation from above to do things right and no other way. It's a simple problem of mental strength and motivation. When we did that one show at the end of 2002 and even when the band did Frontiers, people were motivated. That's all I think needs to happen. For those that are younger and can't necessarily find the motivation from within, it is the director and staff's job to motivate them. That is not happening. That's my point really.

jlozer8 · Post by **jlozer8** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 1:58 pm

I agree with quality over quantity and that more cuts need to be made, but whether you make cuts or not, there are always going to be missed step-offs, and people out of step, and other mistakes like that. Those problems were also present in the 2002 FMB and before and are not going to go away no matter who the director is. People are human, and no matter what the director does, they can't hold everyone's hands and make sure their doing everything correctly.

The Niz · Post by **The Niz** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 10:18 pm

While I do agree with many of the things everyone here is saying about our current facilitator, you have to give her credit on one certain are. If you look around the Doyt at halftime, people don't leave their seats. From what I'm told, there was a time when the majority of the student body didn't seem to care much about the band, and now we seem to keep the fans around. Some credit has to be given to the director for that, she does at least know how please the crowd.

MatrixBass3 · Post by **MatrixBass3** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 10:29 pm

jlozer8 wrote:I agree with quality over quantity and that more cuts need to be made, but whether you make cuts or not, there are always going to be missed step-offs, and people out of step, and other mistakes like that. Those problems were also present in the 2002 FMB and before and are not going to go away no matter who the director is. People are human, and no matter what the director does, they can't hold everyone's hands and make sure their doing everything correctly.

Listen, I'm not saying 2002 was the best year ever, it certainly wasn't, but if you look around, there are college marching bands that by far and away obliterate the FMB. And I'm talking about bands of both styles, show band and corps-style. Check out Riverside community college, or Umass, they are absolutely amazing! Check out (as much as I hate to say it) OSU or Grambling, or other great show bands. There is one thing in common....they all do what they do very well. Here, it's always been mediocre, and will continue to be until someone makes a change. I know that my opinion carries no wait with the current regime, so I just wanted to put my OPINIONS out there, and hope that all those that feel the same will feel confident enough to say something about it.

Rightupinthere · Post by **Rightupinthere** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 10:43 pm

MatrixBass3 wrote: Here, it's always been mediocre, and will continue to be until someone makes a change.

It hasn't "always been mediocre." I'll take the current FMB over anything in the past 10 years.

And I can only speak from experience. I agree that the leadership must change, but I don't believe the issue is all from Dr. Hayward - whom I esteem most highly. But I don't want to get started down that path.

Falcons4Life · Post by **Falcons4Life** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 3:33 am

Just to remind you the student section two years ago wanted to trade for westerns band, and bood the band off the field after the second round of harry potter halftime!

MatrixBass3 · Post by **MatrixBass3** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 1:25 pm

Rightupinthere wrote:
MatrixBass3 wrote: Here, it's always been mediocre, and will continue to be until someone makes a change.
It hasn't "always been mediocre." I'll take the current FMB over anything in the past 10 years.

Really? Name me a good show from this year? It was all a joke. I mean, the hip hop show, which had Stacy's Mom by Fountains of Wayne......is that hip hop? I guess I need to redefine my definition of musical genres. And how about the video game show? Kind of a snoozefest on that one, even though I think it actually had potential. It's just pathetic.

Rightupinthere wrote:[And I can only speak from experience. I agree that the leadership must change, but I don't believe the issue is all from Dr. Hayward - whom I esteem most highly. But I don't want to get started down that path.

Yes, the issue is from her. I just watched a video last night of University of Cincinnatti's Band. (One of my previous students is in the snare line) They were incredible. Their director Terry Frenz (sp?) is an amazing guy, and really knows how to put a staff together. Their drum guy is a sort of well know guy who was in this little broadway production called Blast! His name is Nick Angelis, (he's the short haired guy in the battle between the two snare drummers) and he used to be the caption head for the spirit drum and bugle corps and now teaches the colts. We get a guy who has, and hear me well on this, NEVER CARRIED A DRUM IN HIS LIFE! He was in the pit in high school, and even the pit for Glassmen, but never a battery percussion instrument, so where's his experience? That's why the drumline is a big walking drumset on the field and that sucks. And despite some of us trying to find a way to get someone new, good ole' Hayward says she trusts him and won't even consider it. If I were her I'd probably do that too because if we hired somone knowledgable enough, they'd probably call her out on all of the crap she doesn't do as well. As far as people who don't want to go down that road so to speak. I know that this will end poorly for the current administration, so rip me to shreds now, but when this poorly run regime takes a dive, just remember that some people saw this coming.

Rightupinthere · Post by **Rightupinthere** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 1:41 pm

MatrixBass3 wrote:
Rightupinthere wrote:
MatrixBass3 wrote: Here, it's always been mediocre, and will continue to be until someone makes a change.
It hasn't "always been mediocre." I'll take the current FMB over anything in the past 10 years.
Really? Name me a good show from this year? It was all a joke. I mean, the hip hop show, which had Stacy's Mom by Fountains of Wayne......is that hip hop? I guess I need to redefine my definition of musical genres. And how about the video game show? Kind of a snoozefest on that one, even though I think it actually had potential. It's just pathetic.

Rightupinthere wrote:[And I can only speak from experience. I agree that the leadership must change, but I don't believe the issue is all from Dr. Hayward - whom I esteem most highly. But I don't want to get started down that path.
Yes, the issue is from her. I just watched a video last night of University of Cincinnatti's Band. (One of my previous students is in the snare line) They were incredible. Their director Terry Frenz (sp?) is an amazing guy, and really knows how to put a staff together. Their drum guy is a sort of well know guy who was in this little broadway production called Blast! His name is Nick Angelis, (he's the short haired guy in the battle between the two snare drummers) and he used to be the caption head for the spirit drum and bugle corps and now teaches the colts. We get a guy who has, and hear me well on this, NEVER CARRIED A DRUM IN HIS LIFE! He was in the pit in high school, and even the pit for Glassmen, but never a battery percussion instrument, so where's his experience? That's why the drumline is a big walking drumset on the field and that sucks. And despite some of us trying to find a way to get someone new, good ole' Hayward says she trusts him and won't even consider it. If I were her I'd probably do that too because if we hired somone knowledgable enough, they'd probably call her out on all of the crap she doesn't do as well. As far as people who don't want to go down that road so to speak. I know that this will end poorly for the current administration, so rip me to shreds now, but when this poorly run regime takes a dive, just remember that some people saw this coming.

I hear what you're saying, brother. But listen to me, she can only do what she CAN do. Capisci?
You're on the right track, you're just aiming low with your frustration. Another thing, Cincy's band is supported by the athletic dept. BG's isn't.

MatrixBass3 · Post by **MatrixBass3** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 10:44 pm

Aiming low with my frustration? What does that mean? I'm not saying we have to pull in guys from Blast! but listen to the students, they make the band function and exist. If the students aren't happy, then freaking do something about it. The problem is that the only students who get on here and talk about it are the ones that know that the directors read this and they just want to kiss some serious a**! I've had 5 people call me in the last 2 days saying they wish that they had the lack of concern about what people think so they could voice their true opinions. The people are not happy, for the most part. I don't care if we have a new band director every other year for 3 decades if that's what it takes to find a good fit. I mean, if you gain weight (like I have since I don't march anywhere anymore) do you keep wearing the same clothes even though they don't fit? No, you buy some new ones that fit, and if you keep gaining weight, you keep buying new clothes, end of story. And just so everyone knows, is my bias personal.....absolutely, I had a horrible experience with the current regime, but I'm human and that weighs into my opinion. They told me I was a bad player, a bad member of the band, and that I was a terrible teacher...........if any of them read this, I urge them to come to Dayton April 20th at the University of Dayton arena and watch the group that I teach. If someone is going to tell me these things, all I ask for is justification, and I sure as hell didn't get any of that in my situation, which means one of two things. Either they are cowards or they have no legitimate reasoning, I think it's both.

I am not aiming low, I know exactly where I'm aiming.

goofyeuph · Post by **goofyeuph** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:31 pm

I've stopped debating the issues in this thread cause I feel like I'm kicking a dead horse.

But...

matrix3bass wrote:come to Dayton April 20th at the University of Dayton arena and watch the group that I teach

I'm sure I'm not the only one who would like details.

Rabbit · Post by **Rabbit** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 7:56 am

yeah, I'll be at Dayton on April 20th watching WGI-P, what group do you teach?

MatrixBass3 · Post by **MatrixBass3** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 12:06 pm

Hey Jan, it's me Justin. See you there, and hopefully see you this summer at your band camp again! Now that you know who this is I'm sure you know what group I'll be with.......Findlay. I hope all is well with the DSJ Band!

MatrixBass3 · Post by **MatrixBass3** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 12:10 pm

[quote="goofyeuph"]I've stopped debating the issues in this thread cause I feel like I'm kicking a dead horse.

Hey, never feel like you're beating a dead horse, changes come out of great conversations like this! I'm really exited to hear all of these opinions from all of these different angles. I'm not just some bitter jerk who wants to bag on the band, in fact, I want to see them get better and better. Two of my roomates were on leadership for percussion this year, and I would love to see them come home not frustrated every single day. That's all I'm hoping for from the band. Remember, this is a forum where you can say what you think and feel. I appreciate all of the things that I've heard and have learned some things from them and I hope that everyone that reads this is trying to do the same.

goofyeuph · Post by **goofyeuph** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 12:31 pm

MatrixBass3 wrote:I'm not just some bitter jerk who wants to bag on the band

Fuje, (or however it's spelled) I know you're not just some bitter jerk. I just feel like I've said, and said, and said the same thing over and over and over. I think if I had the ambition I could pull up almost half a dozen threads that were of like or similar nature. I'm sure in a month or so I'll end up neck deep in another thread like this, but for now I'm done. I feel like I've said my piece. If you want to know what I think...scroll up.

BTW, don't know if you didn't know this or had forgotten, this is Chomic