Any NFL team....

[Rollo83]

I know I am probably in the minority right now, but I am not competly sold yet on Young as a NFL quarterback. I still have this image of him as strictly a bigger Michael Vick. Until he proves he can read NFL defenses and make throws with pressure in his face, I can't heap that kind of praise on him.

Lets face it, he didn't exactly encounter much defensive pressure from USC in that game. And when he did move out of the pocket, there was nothing but green in front of him. He probably didn't face much pressure all year. The Buckeye game is the only game where he saw a good defense. Think of what he'll face in the NFL?

For all his hype, Vick is just and average NFL QB. Defensive coordinators can gameplan for the "running" QB. Now many argue that Young is a better passer than Vick. He'll need to be to be successful. Hitting wide open receivers in the Rose Bowl that you and I could have completed isn't exactly NFL resume type stuff.

Only time will tell. Whoever gets him will sell a ton of tickets and get national TV exposure. The league will do all it can to see him succeed.

[edr4225]

that passes on Vince Young will be kicking themselves for years to come. Since the OSU-UT game I've thought VY was a legit prospect that had really improved his game. Throughout this season I saw a man who was a mature leader and had unreal physical tools. Then tonight I watched him take over a championship game like never before. He was the best player on the field with a LOT of first round talent.

My preference of dual threat QBs may be clouding my judgement but I don't think there's a better NFL prospect in all of college football than Vince Young. Reggie Bush is the only player that even deserves to be in the conversation, but I still give the edge to the QB. Vince has "it", size, and arm strength all rolled up into one. Matt Leinart's wet dreams don't have him playing as well as Vince did tonight.

Your exactly right Hammb, Vince Young is an absolute STUD!! This guy has the running ability and elusiveness of vick and then has a passing game along with his 6 5 240 frame! This guy is a freak and in my opinion, if the Houston Texans pass up on this guy then it will be a slap in the FACE to Texas high school football and its fans. Vince young is a born and raised texas boy who dominated in high school and then dominated in college and the fans of texas would love to see him put on that houston texan uniform. He represents the pride of Texas and if the texans drafted him, they would sell tickets with amazing ease. That houston texan stadium would fill up with fans to see their star develop into a NFL QB. Now i know people will say what about reggie bush, you know what i say to that, Forget reggie bush! I question Reggie Bush's mental toughnesss, because in the National Championship game because after he fumbled away the ball to Texas, he just wasnt the same. You could tell he was thinking about that fumble the entire game, but what did Vince Young do. His team was down and on 4th and 5, took the ball and won the game. Bush is good, but when espn was comparing him to gale sayers it was hilarious, because sayers dominated pro players. Bush is an amazing player, and would play well for the texans, but the QB is the most important position in football and Young has amazing talent and is a texas boy. I know they have David Carr, but hes gotta go, trade him for another WR. Furthermore, the Texans already have a pretty good RB in Domanick Davis, hes got power and speed and can catch, he just needs more consistency.

So if i was the Texans, i would:

1. Draft Vince Young, hes amazing and a Texas boy who won the NC

2. Trade David Carr for a WR

3. Use remainings picks after Young pick to draft O line and Defensive players

The Vince Young, Andre Johnson, Domanick Davis combo would be solid

Aight thats my take

Go falcons, beat western michigan!!

[hammb]

For all his hype, Vick is just and average NFL QB. Defensive coordinators can gameplan for the "running" QB.

Look at Atlanta's record with and without Vick in the past 3 seasons. Defensive coordinators try to gameplan for the running QB, but they haven't really figured it out yet. This was by far Vick's worst year and they still finished 8-8 and he made the probowl (albeit in a VERY weak NFC QB crop).

It's a lot easier to gameplan a QB like Manning than Vick.

[BGSUfalcons]

For all his hype, Vick is just and average NFL QB. Defensive coordinators can gameplan for the "running" QB.

Look at Atlanta's record with and without Vick in the past 3 seasons. Defensive coordinators try to gameplan for the running QB, but they haven't really figured it out yet. This was by far Vick's worst year and they still finished 8-8 and he made the probowl (albeit in a VERY weak NFC QB crop).

It's a lot easier to gameplan a QB like Manning than Vick.

hammb, I'm not sure how much stock to put in the records with and without Vick argument. I'm not making the absurd claim that records don't tell us something about how good a QB is, but almost any team in the NFL is going to have a better record with their starter than they will with their backup.

[Rollo83]

The bottom line is winning. The Falcons record since they selected Michael Vick No. 1 in 2001 is 40-39-1. He has a career passer rating of 75.8, completed only 54.1% of his passes, and has thrown 51 TDs and 39 interceptions.

Granted, you could list his rushing statistics and make a case there. But you don't think that a defensive coordinator going into championship game would rather try to defend Vick than say a Tom Brady or Peyton Manning? Its not even close.

I am the first to admit that his athleticism is unreal. But, he is better suited as running back that a QB. The NFL is still a pocket passer league. Of course you have to be able to move out of the pocket and throw on the run. Until Vick proves he can beat you with his arm, he's one dementional.

Plus, I don't think he has the frame to take the pounding he has been taking the few years. He has already missed a large portion of games in his career. Granted his offensive line isn't the best, but when you tuck it under your arm and run in the NFL, you are going to take some big time hits. Why do you think Mora has been trying to get him to stay in the pocket a little longer?

I think Vince Young has a body more suited for a NFL QB than Vick.

[hammb]

hammb, I'm not sure how much stock to put in the records with and without Vick argument. I'm not making the absurd claim that records don't tell us something about how good a QB is, but almost any team in the NFL is going to have a better record with their starter than they will with their backup.

Well yes, that's obvious. But at the same time Atlanta's backup QB is very good. He has been known to throw for 300+ yards and multiple TDs. His name is Matt Shaub and I'd bet anything that there will be other teams trying to get ahold of him and make him their starter in a year or two.

I don't know how else to exemplify it, but Dunn is having the best years of his career with Vick.

The point is that teams can try to gameplan for a guy like Vick, but it's nearly impossible. Keying on his rushing ability opens things up for the other backs on the team, which in turn allows Atlanta to run a top notch ball control offense. Stats will always make Mike Vick look inferior because he's not a great passer, but he's absolutely the most difficult player to gameplan for in the NFL. If you were to ask every defensive coordinator who they'd least like to face I'll bet you that 25+ of them say Vick. I also think a lot of the reason why Vick does look so poor as a passer is his height, an issue that Young doesn't have. If you look at Vick's stats when he gets outside of the pocket they're pretty darn good.

Anyone can create a gameplan to stop a pure dropback passer, you know exactly what they're going to do. It's very difficult to gameplan Vick.

[Rollo83]

Anyone can create a gameplan to stop a pure dropback passer, you know exactly what they're going to do. It's very difficult to gameplan Vick.

How about putting 6 to 8 defenders in the box and force him to pass. Its worked pretty well so far.

[hammb]

How about putting 6 to 8 defenders in the box and force him to pass. Its worked pretty well so far.

I guess I should ask you to define "worked". Last year they were one of the best teams in the league and made it to the NFC Title game. This year they were 8-8 after falling apart following a strong start. I'll readily admit that Vick played poorly this year, but I'm still not convinced that was the reason they lost. They still scored 24 or more points in half of their losses. Their defense also gave up over 30 points in half of their losses...hard to fault the QB (or credit the opposition's defensive gameplan) when it's Atlanta's defense that's costing them games. Their defense was good last year, but was pretty mediocre this season.

Despite loading up in the box the Falcons still managed the #1 rushing offense in the NFL. They're also in the top half of the league in both scoring & total offense. I know that Vick's passing stats look mediocre with only a 73.1 rating, but when you factor in the additional 600 yards & 6 TDs that he accounted for on the ground, I don't think it's fair to say that opposing defenses have yet figured out how to stop him. Especially when you factor in how much Vick's presence has opened up to allow Warrick Dunn to get so much better.

Certainly Vick could stand to improve his passing abilities, but he's a pretty good QB as it is. I know he'd be one of the first QBs I'd take if I were starting a team.

[Rollo83]

I guess that's where we difer. If we were playing on the sandlot in my neighborhood, yes Vick would be my pick. However, I am old school when it comes to the NFL. I'll still take a guy like Brady, Manning or even Carson Palmer before I'd pick Vick. You just can't win on a consistent basis with a QB who is a great runner and only an OK passer. The NFL is a vertical game and scrambling 10-15 yards at a time only takes you so far...and its usually the disabled list.

[Jacobs4Heisman]

As scary as Vick is, I could name a bunch of QB's I'd take before him if I were starting my franchise right now.

Brady, Manning, Manning, Roethlisberger, Palmer, Leftwich, McNabb, maybe Hasselbeck, maybe Brees....Maybe even Matt Schaub . Vick is a phenomenal athlete and is fun to watch, but I'd be surprised to see him make it through 3 more full seasons in the NFL unless he drastically changes his style. And if he changes his style, he stops being Michael Vick.

[hammb]

Vick is as much of a winner as any of the guys you've mentioned. And all I care about is winning. You put him on a team with a defense and you have a great team. Last year Atlanta's defense was good and they were one game away from the superbowl...this year it was awful and they're at home.

Mike Vick gives your offensive team the best rushing game in the NFL. If you combine that running game with a defense you'll win. Vick is a clutch big game QB, and has a great winning % throughout his career. When Vick is hurt Shaub steps in, throws for a bunch of yards and TDs, and now they always lose. That's not coincidence.

The only QB in the NFL that I take in favor of Vick hand's down is McNabb. He's the only one who's got the playmaking skills with his legs and arm. Then I consider Culpepper.

The other guys are all good QBs, but I don't like the statues in the pocket...I'll take Roethlisberger, he can move.

My reasoning is simple, the only way those pocket passers really excel is if you surround them with talent. That was all well in good back in the old days of pre-salary cap NFL, but now you cannot afford to build an elite defense and have an elite set of offensive players. If I'm building my team I spend to have a top 10 defense, and put a mobile QB out there to make plays, with less than par talent around him. Of your list of traditional style QBs look at just the ones who've truly excelled in the NFL:

Brady...A great OL, Good WR corps that doesn't get the credit it deserves, Corey Dillon.
Manning...Edge, Harrison, Wayne, one of the top OLs in the game.
Palmer...Johnson, Johnson, Houshmanwhatever, good OL
Hasselbeck...best OL in football, Shaun Alexander
Roethlisberger...Great OL, Bettis/Parker, Hines Ward
Brees...good OL, best RB in football, best TE in football
E. Manning...good OL, Tiki Barber, Shockey, Plaxico

Leftwich is a good player, but he's struggled because he's NOT surrounded by talent. Look how often the dude gets creamed in the pocket or suffers from dropped passes. He doesn't look nearly as good as the above guys and the biggest reason why is his surrounding cast.

McNabb, OTOH, started excelling with almost no talent around him in Philly. Vick has done his thing with an average OL (good run blockers, horrid pass blockers), an average RB, a top notch TE, and a worthless WR corps. However, he's won with that team, and McNabb won with the team he had, when they had a defense.

Certainly you can have a great QB with either style, but my preference is for the mobile QB who can make things happen. Then spend my valued salary cap dollars on the defensive side.

[Jacobs4Heisman]

I'm spending on lineman first, then a shutdown corner, then QB, then the rest of the D, then skill positions.


Let me clarify my Vick stance. I love him as a QB for all the reasons you've mentioned. I don't want him to start my franchise because I don't think he'll be alive in three years the way he plays, let alone still look like Michael Vick. Another reason is Running QB's in general do not age well at all.

My favorite QB's are the Roethlisberger types. The guys that are great scrambling in the pocket, can get you 5-10 yards if the play breaks down, but still develop all the great passing skills and intangibles.

[dduncan]

I think you just listed exactly how to build a playoff team. Start with the OL and work from there.

Every playoff team has an above average to way above average OL. I don't think mobility (QB) is much of a factor when you talk about winning. You give the QB enough time to throw, have a decent running game, the football team will more than often win.

[hammb]

My favorite QB's are the Roethlisberger types. The guys that are great scrambling in the pocket, can get you 5-10 yards if the play breaks down, but still develop all the great passing skills and intangibles.

Of those there are 3. Culpepper, Roethlisberger, & McNabb. Frye shows potential to be in that category, but unless he strengthens his arm he'll never be a star.

Realizing that it's unlikely I'll be able to get one of the few guys who can move & throw, I like the guys who can move. Plus I'm an egotistical coach who thinks I can teach my guys how to throw...you can't teach athleticism.

[Germainfitch1]

I'm spending on lineman first, then a shutdown corner, then QB, then the rest of the D, then skill positions.


Let me clarify my Vick stance. I love him as a QB for all the reasons you've mentioned. I don't want him to start my franchise because I don't think he'll be alive in three years the way he plays, let alone still look like Michael Vick. Another reason is Running QB's in general do not age well at all.

My favorite QB's are the Roethlisberger types. The guys that are great scrambling in the pocket, can get you 5-10 yards if the play breaks down, but still develop all the great passing skills and intangibles.

It has become the cliche thing to say that running qbs get hurt too much...How often has Vick been hurt. How often was Cunningham and Steve Young Hurt? Mark Brunnell. There were injuries but I dont think they were more common than drop back QBs. You have to also think immobile QBs take harder hits because they dont move out of them.