Bands and BGSU football

[The Niz]

I definatley am talking about the attitudes of the marchers. The staff try to keep everything positive the whole season, but for some reason people here seem to get really sick of each other half way through the year.

[Shakeatailfeather04]

I really don't think it's far to compare the FMB to the OSU marching band (sorry, they're not the best damn blah blah whatever). Pardon the cliche, but it's like comparing apples to oranges. Their band is much more intense and more serious than the FMB overall. They have much stricter discipline and rehearsal technique. For instance- after every performance they all watch their performance while the director circles (with the same technology used during NFL games) mistakes and points out those who made the mistakes. From what I understand there is fierce competition to get into the band at all and then for spots within the band. That simply doesn't happen at BG, and don't get me wrong, I'm glad. Our band is much more laid back and I think, probably a lot more fun. The focus is not so much on perfection but on overall learning, entertaining the crowd and simply having a good time. Not only that, but our bands simply have totally different styles- they are very traditional and march a corps style while the FMB marches a more showy style with some corps influences.

Could the FMB be better? Absolutely. I doubt everyone's attitude is really terrible by the 3rd or 4th game, but I'm sure they could be improved. I'm also sure discipline could be a little more strict, rehearsals could be more effective, fundamentals could be better, and the list could go on and on. The fact is, the band has come a long LONG way from where it was just four or five years ago- especially in terms of attitude.

And really, what's the value in comparing the bands at all? If you think OSU is so much better then go march there.

[Metz]

The fact is, the band has come a long LONG way from where it was just four or five years ago- especially in terms of attitude.

Not to slam anyone or anything about the band, but my first year marching (2001) was an 180-degree turn from what you guys are doing now. Fundamentals week was about fundamentals and if you couldn't cut it, you got cut. Now everyone gets in and that kills the attitude right away. The people who bust their asses to do better realize they don't have to work as hard to make it and the people who don't do as well don't feel they need to improve to stay in band.

My first 2 years actually, we never practiced anything for the first show the week of fundamentals. I've been around the last 3 years watching how things have changed from when I started, and to be honest, the "more fun" attitude you claim BG's band has over the "serious" one OSU has shows when you take a show to the field. Again, no disrepect to anyone here, I'm just saying I feel things might be a little TOO FUN...when that happens, the fundamentals tend to get sloppy.

I'm sure people from before my time could say the same to me about how their time here was much harder as well...things have definitely changed. I've been around here for the last 10 years and seen the band go on a rollercoaster ride. It's definitely headed in the right direction again, but there are a lot of kinks that need to be worked out still. If some people took it more serious and stopped going overboard on the fun, I think you'd all be fine.

[Falconfliccbone]

The fact is, the band has come a long LONG way from where it was just four or five years ago- especially in terms of attitude.

Not to slam anyone or anything about the band, but my first year marching (2001) was an 180-degree turn from what you guys are doing now. Fundamentals week was about fundamentals and if you couldn't cut it, you got cut. Now everyone gets in and that kills the attitude right away. The people who bust their asses to do better realize they don't have to work as hard to make it and the people who don't do as well don't feel they need to improve to stay in band.

My first 2 years actually, we never practiced anything for the first show the week of fundamentals. I've been around the last 3 years watching how things have changed from when I started, and to be honest, the "more fun" attitude you claim BG's band has over the "serious" one OSU has shows when you take a show to the field. Again, no disrepect to anyone here, I'm just saying I feel things might be a little TOO FUN...when that happens, the fundamentals tend to get sloppy.

I'm sure people from before my time could say the same to me about how their time here was much harder as well...things have definitely changed. I've been around here for the last 10 years and seen the band go on a rollercoaster ride. It's definitely headed in the right direction again, but there are a lot of kinks that need to be worked out still. If some people took it more serious and stopped going overboard on the fun, I think you'd all be fine.

I think it's funny that Metz would say that things might be "TOO FUN". I heard a lot of people talking about how band was not as much fun this year as it had been, mostly due to the loss of Ryan Nowlin. He, along with Jason Sivil, ran a majority of the rehearsals my freshman year, and Ryan did a ton of work last year. Both of these men were serious and focused, but they also had a sense of humor. They, especially Ryan Nowlin, were a perfect mix of joking around and discipline that resulted in an incredible intensity in rehearsals. Maybe it was a respect thing (or the fact that most of the girls in the band wanted to have Ryan's babies), but the loss of these two is extremely noticable from every day rehearsals to performances.

[Metz]

I think it's funny that Metz would say that things might be "TOO FUN".

Why?

I heard a lot of people talking about how band was not as much fun this year as it had been, mostly due to the loss of Ryan Nowlin. He, along with Jason Sivil, ran a majority of the rehearsals my freshman year, and Ryan did a ton of work last year. Both of these men were serious and focused, but they also had a sense of humor. They, especially Ryan Nowlin, were a perfect mix of joking around and discipline that resulted in an incredible intensity in rehearsals. Maybe it was a respect thing (or the fact that most of the girls in the band wanted to have Ryan's babies), but the loss of these two is extremely noticable from every day rehearsals to performances.

I hate bring Ryan and Jason into it. It pushes the other people in charge to the back burner and hopefully that didn't come out in my post. When Dr. Toney was here, he definitely had a sense of humor and while he might not have ran practices the way we liked (aka reverse marching through drills), it was still taken more serious then as well. Why? Leadership. From Section Leaders to Squad Leaders, everyone actually did stuff to improve their sections. Many of last years leadership just stood there the entire days watching through fundamentals week. I am sure that carried on through the season because I've heard people complain about it.

Yes the balance of fun and seriousness needs to start at the top, but it then must filter down through the leadership and I don't see that happening anymore. For instance, I didn't like our Section Leaders in 2003. However, looking back now, I realize what he was doing. We definitely had our fun that year, but he was an ass when he needed to be. He didn't want us all to like him, because that's when you start having too much fun. He wanted us to respect him to the point where if he said cut the horse play out, we went into serious mode and got stuff done.

[Shakeatailfeather04]

Actually, the "fun" overall tone of the FMB has always been there, at least when compared to OSU's band. I don't think that has anything to do with the rehearsals or performances. Nothing that has changed in the last four or five years has anything to do with the overall tone of the band- it was the same attitude in 2000 when we marched an amazing version of Malaguena and put Miami's band to absolute shame (on their turf). I'm sure the tone was the same during the amazing shows we hear about in the 80s and 90s.

I do agree that less emphasis seems to be put on fundamentals, but it's not true that if "you couldn't cut it, you got cut". Very few people were ever actually cut, at least while I was a member, and cuts were usually based on attitude. That was different in the larger sections (trumpets and percs) but I would say that cuts were few and far between. But yes, fundamentals are essential to a band's success, as is the use of alternates. I don't think that the overall "fun" attitude is the reason that fundamentals are sloppy (if in fact they are), it comes from that not being a focus during that week and throughout the year.

When I talk about things being different, I'm talking about increased membership and the feeling that the director actually cares about the FMB and it's success. Dr. Toney was a great person, but a terrible marching band director and he was overall very VERY bad for morale. That trickles down into the membership and definitely did in that case. It caused us all to constantly be frustrated and angry. We weren't marching shows that were done well, the music was crappy and we knew Dr. Toney had no idea what he was doing. He often had to ask US what page of drill we were on during rehearsal, for instance.

I love Ryan and Jason, I truly do, and I think they are both amazingly talented, but I am sick and tired of hearing about how things will never be the same without them. The FMB was an amazing organization before Ryan and Jason ever stepped into BG and it still is even though they are gone. I know they would say the same thing, and not just because they are modest people.

[Falconfliccbone]

Good points by Metz and Shakeatailfeather. I guess it's easier to place the blame else where rather than on the leadership because I know too many of them too well. I agree that we need to be stricter because discipline builds a band (and a classroom). It also seems like there are some of the leadership staff who don't seem to care as much about being there, but this is a problem throughout the whole band. I don't know what can be done to fix it.

[FliccGirl]

We did go over fundamentals quite a lot this year (can we say box drill?) but mostly as a full band. Maybe it would be better if fundamentals were practiced consistently throughout the year on a section basis, because it's hard to look for individual mistakes when 200 people, including the leadership, are marching at the same time. With the wonderful power of hindsight, it seems to me that it would probably be good for the leadership to hold marching-fundamentals sectionals throughout the year.

And I agree that Ryan and Jason were wonderful for the FMB-- I don't know of anyone who would really disagree-- but as we've already discussed ad nauseum on a previous thread, they did not comprise the FMB. The members have always done that, and they will continue to do so.

[jacojdm]

Not to slam anyone or anything about the band, but my first year marching (2001) was an 180-degree turn from what you guys are doing now. Fundamentals week was about fundamentals and if you couldn't cut it, you got cut. Now everyone gets in and that kills the attitude right away. The people who bust their asses to do better realize they don't have to work as hard to make it and the people who don't do as well don't feel they need to improve to stay in band.

my freshman year, (and only year marching), we marched all of fundamentals week in our bare feet. and they covered the field with broken glass. and land mines. that taught us discipline.

wait. that didn't actually happen. but, we did have lots of good leadership from the upperclassmen, along with two great drum majors (richard canter and...sorry to bring him up again...ryan nowlin). frankly, a lot of the band's discipline came from these folks. these were kids that had three different band directors in three years. i think that it is the responsibilty of each veteran bandsman to impart the excellence, the discipline, and the tradtion to the younger members of the fmb. as much as some folks would like to point fingers at the highest up in the band food chain, ultimately, the best way to influence greater than 200-250, or whatever the number is, young people (especially those 80 or so that are new to the band), is through the actions of peers. i, along with other freshpeople, very much looked up to the older folk in the band. they taught us how to act, play, perform, etc., and they had a much greater effect on me than did dr. toney.

[jlozer8]

For instance, I didn't like our Section Leaders in 2003. However, looking back now, I realize what he was doing. We definitely had our fun that year, but he was an ass when he needed to be.

I think you mean 2002. The section leader in '03 was a female.

Anyways, here are some of my thoughts as far as the whole leadership issue goes. The student leadership knows what they are getting into when they audition for a leadership position, but some do not put in the necessary effort when the marching season comes. I've been leadership in the FMB for 3 years now, and I've seen too many people that take leadership positions simply for the title and and the little asterisk they get next to their names in the Sounds of the Stadium program. If you are in a leadership position in the FMB, you should put some effort into it and at least do something. Standing around during fundamentals week while the other leadership in your section does all the teaching, and continuing to do nothing through the entire season is not what you should be doing if you are leadership in the band, but unfortunately I have seen this happening more and more each year that I have been here. Leadership in the FMB should not be a position of glory where you just get recognized for being good at playing your instrument. It takes work to be leadership, and too many people don't seem to be putting in the necessary work.

[Metz]

I think you mean 2002. The section leader in '03 was a female.

Yeah, my last few years were all a blur of sitting on the sidelines.

[Falcons4Life]

Metzger....you were the best ladder holder ever.....its just a shame it was incinuated that your return would not be appreciated!!!

[The Niz]

I can't believe the director would actually say something to the effect of not welcoming Metz back. Especially since she tried to convince every single euphonium player to switch to trumpet.

[goofyeuph]

I can't believe the director would actually say something to the effect of not welcoming Metz back.

I can...it may not have totally been intentional, but I can believe it.

[The Niz]

In the interest of not digging myself a huge hole in the months/years to come, I won't say anything about things like this that I keep hearing around here.