PJ Pope talk on Bears MSG Board.......

[Falconboy]

http://bears.hosttown.com/index.php?showtopic=129318

PJ apparently is looking good. I hope he can keep it up in these next pre-season games. I gotta see the their game tommorow. Does anyone know if the Bears game Fri will be on local tv somewhere?

[Dayons_Den]

Interesting points in those posts.

Seems to me if the Bears were smart, and they really did like him, they might limit PJ's playing time in the next preseason game.

If he shines in a preseason game then is put on the Bears practice squad he is likely to get snapped up by another team.

So if he doesn't get significant time in Da Bears next preseason game this isn't neccessarily a bad thing.

[Warthog]

Chargers at Bears is on CBS tonight. Everyone should get a chance to see PJ showcase his skills. And Mrzkowski as well.

[hammb]

Chargers at Bears is on CBS tonight. Everyone should get a chance to see PJ showcase his skills. And Mrzkowski as well.

Good Luck PJ, but the Browns-Lions game is tonight as well.

[Warthog]

Chargers at Bears is on CBS tonight. Everyone should get a chance to see PJ showcase his skills. And Mrzkowski as well.

Good Luck PJ, but the Browns-Lions game is tonight as well.

Picture-in-picture!

[Jacobs4Heisman]

After watching the first Browns preseason games you guys are coming back for more? Gluttons for punishment, all.

You Brownie fans sure are resilient.

[hammb]

After watching the first Browns preseason games you guys are coming back for more? Gluttons for punishment, all.

You Brownie fans sure are resilient.

Actually none of us got to watch the first game, because it wasn't on anywhere in the area (did anyone find a bar that actually had it?).

I did listen to it on the radio, and the defense sounded pretty encouraging, especially a lot of the young guys. The offense is still a work in progress, and I expect them to be pretty bad until Braylon gets back up to speed, but still I watch.

[Jacobs4Heisman]

After watching the first Browns preseason games you guys are coming back for more? Gluttons for punishment, all.

You Brownie fans sure are resilient.

Actually none of us got to watch the first game, because it wasn't on anywhere in the area (did anyone find a bar that actually had it?).

I did listen to it on the radio, and the defense sounded pretty encouraging, especially a lot of the young guys. The offense is still a work in progress, and I expect them to be pretty bad until Braylon gets back up to speed, but still I watch.

I watched a replay on the NFL network, and it was ugly. The Browns need everything to go right this year to be a .500 team, and so far very little has gone right for them.

[JoeFalcon]

I like how the NIU fan jumped in and mentioned the game from 2004 to criticize Pope and pump up the midget Garrett Wolfe, neglecting to note how Pope and BGSU dismantled NIU on GameDay the year before.

They correctly note how his fate might be determined based on special teams, where he sprained both ankles in a nasty collision blocking for the kickoff return team last year for BG. They might want to put him at another position for psychological reasons alone.

[hammb]

I watched a replay on the NFL network, and it was ugly. The Browns need everything to go right this year to be a .500 team, and so far very little has gone right for them.

It was ugly to listen to, can only imagine how it looked on television. Still the first 2 defensive units did a very good job, did they not? The Eagles marched down the field initially (burning Pete "soon to be job" Hunter), but they held them to a FG, then it sounded like the defense really stepped up. McNabb's second series was a 3 & out and the rest of the 2nd quarter the defense did a good job as well. At one time we had a defense out there with like 7 or 8 rookies & 2nd year guys, and that's always encouraging as well.

The offense I'm sure was terrible. The only offense this team had last year was Reuban, and he only got like 5 carries (they were effective though). I like Frye, but I don't expect much from him this year. Even average QB play would be a bous.

I've had the conversation many times on the Browns board, and get called an idiot, but I'll run through it real quick here too. I think the Browns offense could actually be worse this year. Faine was no star, but whoever is playing for them this year will be a step down from that. Joe Jurevicius is a step down from Antonio Bryant. Braylon is coming off knee surgery and will likely not play until at least opening day. Winslow is coming off 2 years of injuries and has only played 2 NFL games. A QB who has only started 5 games. A RB who is solid, but not spectacular, and is not a real TD producer. That all adds up to a very bad offense. I really don't see where they've improved any from last season, and that's saying something because they were the worst in the league.

As for being a .500 team, I never really thought they'd be a .500 team anyways. They were 6-10 last year, with a pretty easy schedule. I expect a similar record this year, because our schedule is pretty darn tough. The team may be better this year (I expect the defense to be pretty good), but the record may not bear that out. I expect the offense to be just putrid at the beginning of the year, and I hope that by the end of the year they're starting to at least make some plays.

I would not cry if they somehow landed Brian Brohm or Brady Quinn in the draft, but not sure we'll be quite that bad.

[Jacobs4Heisman]

Well, if the Browns go around 6-10, they should be around 10th in the draft. Brohm could fall that far, and if he doesn't, this is a good QB draft anyway so they could find somebody better than Frye I would think.

And yes, the defense was good. the Browns should have a top-15 defense this year, even playing in the AFC. Like you said though, I just don't see how this team is going to score any points this year (except against the Bungles).

[Bleeding Orange]

. Brohm could fall that far, and if he doesn't, this is a good QB draft anyway so they could find somebody better than Frye I would think.

They had better do something about the QB position next year. With all due respect to Chuckie, it is an absolute joke to me that Frye and Dorsey are supposed to be the saving grace of this franchise. Yes, Charlie works hard and, yes, he might have some sort of upside, he has not shown the skills yet to be considered a "saving grace." And before anyone jumps down my throat, I was at the game on Christmas Eve against the Stillers. I watched Charlie bumble his way to the 50 all day long. That was pathetic, and I see no reason yet to believe that he will be that much improved this season.

I love the Browns because they represent my hometown, but it is becoming harder and harder to deny that, organizationally, the Browns are to the NFL what Kansas City is to MLB. It's pathetic, and nothing is going to change as long as games are being sold out.

[Jacobs4Heisman]

. Brohm could fall that far, and if he doesn't, this is a good QB draft anyway so they could find somebody better than Frye I would think.

They had better do something about the QB position next year. With all due respect to Chuckie, it is an absolute joke to me that Frye and Dorsey are supposed to be the saving grace of this franchise. Yes, Charlie works hard and, yes, he might have some sort of upside, he has not shown the skills yet to be considered a "saving grace." And before anyone jumps down my throat, I was at the game on Christmas Eve against the Stillers. I watched Charlie bumble his way to the 50 all day long. That was pathetic, and I see no reason yet to believe that he will be that much improved this season.

I love the Browns because they represent my hometown, but it is becoming harder and harder to deny that, organizationally, the Browns are to the NFL what Kansas City is to MLB. It's pathetic, and nothing is going to change as long as games are being sold out.

Well, nobody goes to see KC anymore, and still nothing has changed.

Take heart -- the Browns will be in the playoffs within a couple of years. Crennel has the defense coming around, and they have been drafting much better as of late.

And that Pittsburgh game you speak of is the main reason I think Frye is not going to be much. I watched the game with my family (Steeler people), and about 10 rabid, but reasonable Browns fans. By the end of the game, the Brownies were either too embarrased to say anything, or were on the verge of renouncing their faith.

Unless Chuckie can drastically improve his intermediate to deep passing game, teams with physical defenses like the Steelers, Ravens, Pats, Jax, hell most of the AFC, will press his short stuff and blitz with no fear. If a toolsie QB with some upside is on the board in the first next year when the Browns are up, I think they would have a very tough time passing him up. By the time that QB was ready, Edwards and Wheelie should be in their prime (or in the morgue), and the Browns should be ready to contend.

[hammb]

Just as a reminder that Pittsburgh game was Frye's 4th start, behind a beat up OL, missing his TE & top WR. Against a team that ended up winning the superbowl. Yes, it was embarrassing. Yes, it was a country ass kicking. Still, I find it hard to evaluate a QB on any one game, especially one in his rookie year.

I liked Frye a lot coming out of college because I loved his poise & leadership abilities. I thought he could make plays moving around the pocket as well. No, he didn't have the strongest arm, but he was pretty accurate with it throughout his college career.

Last year Frye showed some of that leadership & did make some plays moving the pocket. He looked very much in rythmn with Braylon whenever they were on the field together (shortlived though it was). Still there were passes that fluttered when he went deep. More importantly he held the ball way too long taking a LOT of sacks. Still in a little 5 game cameo as a starter I didn't see anything so disturbing to believe that Frye can never be an NFL starter. To say that you see no way he could improve that greatly this season seems absurd to me. The biggest jump most QBs will make is from their first year to their second year; it's their first full offseason to learn the playbook and develope a chemistry with their receivers. If Frye doesn't show significant improvement this year I'll be both shocked & disappointed.

The thing I really like about Frye, moreso than his potential upside, is that we have nothing invested in him. He gets this year to see what he can do with the starting gig. If he sucks, we don't have to live with it like you would a top 15 pick, we have no financial investment. I also think that he'll be a damn fine backup at worst. If this year he doesn't improve you go out and draft a guy next year. You give Frye another year as a starter while your young guy learns, and you see what you've got in Frye again...if he develops you've got a Rivers/Brees situation, not the end of the world.

I agree with J4H completely with his assessment of Frye needing to improve his intermediate to deep passing game. Clearly that was his weakness last year, and teams will eat that up if they know that it's all you can do. I do expect some improvements in this area...reports from camp are that he has improved his arm strength quite a bit in the offseason, so we shall see. Honestly, I know that Frye can make all the throws, I've seen him do it. I'm more concerned with him learning how to read defenses and throw from the pocket rather than constantly rolling out. And, of course, making all throws on time is the most important thing of all.

As for the organization Bleeding, I think you're selling them a touch short. This is not baseball, and not even close. The Browns have a world class training facility & stadium. They have an owner who just paid $15 million to get RID of a coach, because he wasn't doing his job. This is not baseball where a cheap owner can trump signings, etc. Every team has the same salary cap to work with. The Browns front office may very well still be inept, but they've only been on the job for about 18 months now, and I think that's a touch early to declare them failures. Especially since they seem to have done much better job in that time period than what the previous regime had done in the previous 4 years.

[Bleeding Orange]

The Browns front office may very well still be inept, but they've only been on the job for about 18 months now, and I think that's a touch early to declare them failures. Especially since they seem to have done much better job in that time period than what the previous regime had done in the previous 4 years.

This is true, but for someone (like me) who doesn't pay attention to every little move that the organization makes, it really doesn't seem like much has changed. I could be wrong and I realy hope I am. Still, given everything that has happened with the center position this year, it would seem that even Jesus hates the Browns.