Dan Macon Story in Today's PD

Discussion of the Falcon football team.
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Rollo83
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Post by Rollo83 »

Originally posted by JoeFalcon:

When we've been Top 5 nationally in passing, the shotgun handoffs worked because teams were backing off enough to defend the pass and seams developed for talented backs like Pope and Lane to exploit.

When the passing game struggled at times last year without (and occasionally with) Omar, those handoffs became wasted downs as the backs were simply engulfed before they had any opportunity to find a hole or generate monentum. It was almost like a run was called just to get it out of the way, something that killed far too many drives with the 2nd and 3rd and long situations it led to.

Take a look at my post about our offensive philosphy for this season. It includes a statistical look at our offense over the past 5 years:

http://www.ay-ziggy-zoomba.com/phpBB2/v ... hp?t=12333

The trend that I noticed, when looking at that, was that it wasn't our passing game that seemed to make our rushing game click. Instead it was the multiple options on offense, rather than one feature back. From '01-'03 we were balanced passing & rushing with some really good totals on the ground. We did not use to pass to set up the run back then, either, IMO, the difference was that our running plays were all well executed option type plays. In each of those years we had 3 players with 500+ yards on the ground.

That depth and variety made it difficult for the defense to key on who was getting the ball. The real wild card was that the QB could take off on any given play. But Harris didn't run from busted passing plays, no, he ran from our version of the option (hence spread-option offense). Sure we ran some standard speed & triple option type plays, but more notably were the counters. We ran a lot of QB counters where he would fake to the RB, then run the other direction. It was a lot of misdirection, all set up by the running ability of the QB.

Much like Chris Leak in Florida, however, Omar Jacobs was NOT ideally suited to run the spread-option offense. Neither guy can provide that rushing threat that allows the rushing game to tick. Omar's first year as a starter we got away with it by using the pass to set up the run. We still didn't have that diversity in the backfield that had allowed for a real balanced attack the previous years, but we ran enough to keep defenses honest. Last year we couldn't do that however. Once the passing game faltered Lane & Pope struggled mightily. The scheme had changed away from the diverse set of running plays that we had built the run game around.

I'm hoping that with more mobile QBs this year, we will return to those days. It is my opinion that the offense from '01-'03 is much more effective at winning games than what we ran the last 2 years. Judging from the scrimmage the other night we will definitely run more plays from the old playbook than the more recent. I look for the combination of Bullock & Macon to rush for 1200-1500 yards this year, and I fully expect our QBs to chip in 500+ as well. If that happens I think we could return to the offense that we loved a few years ago.
Agreed, but running out of the spread formation is the key. Lining up with a tight end and a fullback and a running back in the I-formation isn't the answer. PJ got most of his yards taking a handoff out of the shotgun in a spread formation. This forced one or more of their linebackers to have to match up with one or more of our recievers. And, the safeties had to stay at home against the deep pass to the wide outs.

Granted, Turner and Barnes should be able to make more plays with their feet. But, they are going to have to pass effetively enough to make that possible. Othewise, as someone stated earlier, the running plays are going to be just wasted downs.
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Post by hammb »

Rollo83 wrote: Granted, Turner and Barnes should be able to make more plays with their feet. But, they are going to have to pass effetively enough to make that possible. Othewise, as someone stated earlier, the running plays are going to be just wasted downs.
As much as I loved Josh Harris he didn't become an efficient passer until his senior year. Still he ran the offense to some huge numbers as a sophomore & junior because we were run first, and he was as much a threat as our RBs were. If Turner or Barnes can prove to be that run threat they will only need to be average passers to keep the defenses on their heels.
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Post by Falconfreak90 »

Thanks for the link. I am pumped to see Dan "The Man" Macon bring home the bacon.

GO FALCONS!!!
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Post by Jacobs4Heisman »

Preaching to 5,000 people at age 13? Sounds like a leader to me.
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Running with a FB and TE's....

Post by Falconboy »

We've never done it before. My OSU friends berates me to no end when we play together on a team and I call a running play that has not FB in it. He says you can't run the football without a FB and he's sorta right to an extent. Our previoius running game were based on misdirection only. Now that we're putting a 260lb Winovich in the backfield and a 6'4 270lb TE in O'Drobinack we should expect to impose our will more hopefully in the running game.
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Post by Flipper »

Impose our will? what kind of macho head game are you playing? You can run very effectively out of the spread. You can run effectively out of the psread in the red zone.. Yiou just have to be talented enough and displined enough to execute the play the way it's designed.

If you have linemen quick enough to pull and a back smart enough to read and find the hole, you can create a mismatch just about anywhere on the field..
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Re: Running with a FB and TE's....

Post by Falconboy »

falconboy wrote:We've never done it before. My OSU friends berates me to no end when we play NCAA Football together on a team and I call a running play that has not FB in it. He says you can't run the football without a FB and he's sorta right to an extent. Our previoius running game were based on misdirection only. Now that we're putting a 260lb Winovich in the backfield and a 6'4 270lb TE in O'Drobinack we should expect to impose our will more hopefully in the running game.
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Post by Falconboy »

Flipper wrote:Impose our will? what kind of macho head game are you playing? You can run very effectively out of the spread. You can run effectively out of the psread in the red zone.. Yiou just have to be talented enough and displined enough to execute the play the way it's designed.

If you have linemen quick enough to pull and a back smart enough to read and find the hole, you can create a mismatch just about anywhere on the field..
And mostly agree with you. I just hope our O-line has gotten big enough and strong enough run block well enough even when the D knows we're running. I dont' want to have to rely on misdirection alone, thats where the predictability comes in our spread. We have to be able to establish a good running game or Wisky will pin their ears back and bring 9 to the box all day.
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I absolutely agree

Post by FalconGood »

I believe you hit it on the head - the only difference between this year and Josh's Soph/Jr year is Josh proved he could throw the ball with a little consistency. Omar did not have the mobility to run the counter or option effectively. Barnes/Turner will have to prove the same as Josh did that he can throw and we will be back to a triple threat offense. If we get good play calling, we may be in for a helluva year.
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Post by Falconfreak90 »

falconboy wrote:
Flipper wrote:Impose our will? what kind of macho head game are you playing? You can run very effectively out of the spread. You can run effectively out of the psread in the red zone.. Yiou just have to be talented enough and displined enough to execute the play the way it's designed.

If you have linemen quick enough to pull and a back smart enough to read and find the hole, you can create a mismatch just about anywhere on the field..
And mostly agree with you. I just hope our O-line has gotten big enough and strong enough run block well enough even when the D knows we're running. I dont' want to have to rely on misdirection alone, thats where the predictability comes in our spread. We have to be able to establish a good running game or Wisky will pin their ears back and bring 9 to the box all day.
I think the O Line is the least of our worries....they're big, strong and ready to roll. We go 317, 285, 310, 354 and 301 (Nystrom, Lanning, Lichtensteiger, Markray and Huelsman across the front). Add O'Drobinak at 270 in the TE position. BTW, our height across the line is 6'5", 6'4", 6'3", 6'5" and 6'5". TE O'Drobinak goes 6'4". Our starting 5 O line averages 313 lbs. :shock: Sure, Markray skews the # a bit but still.

I think we'll be able to run the ball effectively.

GO FALCONS!
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Post by bgsufalcon24 »

Falconfreak90 wrote:
falconboy wrote:
Flipper wrote:Impose our will? what kind of macho head game are you playing? You can run very effectively out of the spread. You can run effectively out of the psread in the red zone.. Yiou just have to be talented enough and displined enough to execute the play the way it's designed.

If you have linemen quick enough to pull and a back smart enough to read and find the hole, you can create a mismatch just about anywhere on the field..
And mostly agree with you. I just hope our O-line has gotten big enough and strong enough run block well enough even when the D knows we're running. I dont' want to have to rely on misdirection alone, thats where the predictability comes in our spread. We have to be able to establish a good running game or Wisky will pin their ears back and bring 9 to the box all day.
I think the O Line is the least of our worries....they're big, strong and ready to roll. We go 317, 285, 310, 354 and 301 (Nystrom, Lanning, Lichtensteiger, Markray and Huelsman across the front). Add O'Drobinak at 270 in the TE position. BTW, our height across the line is 6'5", 6'4", 6'3", 6'5" and 6'5". TE O'Drobinak goes 6'4". Our starting 5 O line averages 313 lbs. :shock: Sure, Markray skews the # a bit but still.

I think we'll be able to run the ball effectively.

GO FALCONS!
If you want to get statistical, Markray doesn't skew it by much, since the median average weight on the line is 310, just behind the mean of 313. But the point is the same, the O-Line is going to be kick ass, and if our backs will be able to read where the holes are we will be just fine running the football, especially against the smaller defensive lines of the mid-american conference.
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Post by JoeFalcon »

hammb wrote:
JoeFalcon wrote: When we've been Top 5 nationally in passing, the shotgun handoffs worked because teams were backing off enough to defend the pass and seams developed for talented backs like Pope and Lane to exploit.

When the passing game struggled at times last year without (and occasionally with) Omar, those handoffs became wasted downs as the backs were simply engulfed before they had any opportunity to find a hole or generate monentum. It was almost like a run was called just to get it out of the way, something that killed far too many drives with the 2nd and 3rd and long situations it led to.
Take a look at my post about our offensive philosphy for this season. It includes a statistical look at our offense over the past 5 years:

http://www.ay-ziggy-zoomba.com/phpBB2/v ... hp?t=12333

The trend that I noticed, when looking at that, was that it wasn't our passing game that seemed to make our rushing game click. Instead it was the multiple options on offense, rather than one feature back. From '01-'03 we were balanced passing & rushing with some really good totals on the ground. We did not use to pass to set up the run back then, either, IMO, the difference was that our running plays were all well executed option type plays. In each of those years we had 3 players with 500+ yards on the ground.

That depth and variety made it difficult for the defense to key on who was getting the ball. The real wild card was that the QB could take off on any given play. But Harris didn't run from busted passing plays, no, he ran from our version of the option (hence spread-option offense). Sure we ran some standard speed & triple option type plays, but more notably were the counters. We ran a lot of QB counters where he would fake to the RB, then run the other direction. It was a lot of misdirection, all set up by the running ability of the QB.

Much like Chris Leak in Florida, however, Omar Jacobs was NOT ideally suited to run the spread-option offense. Neither guy can provide that rushing threat that allows the rushing game to tick. Omar's first year as a starter we got away with it by using the pass to set up the run. We still didn't have that diversity in the backfield that had allowed for a real balanced attack the previous years, but we ran enough to keep defenses honest. Last year we couldn't do that however. Once the passing game faltered Lane & Pope struggled mightily. The scheme had changed away from the diverse set of running plays that we had built the run game around.

I'm hoping that with more mobile QBs this year, we will return to those days. It is my opinion that the offense from '01-'03 is much more effective at winning games than what we ran the last 2 years. Judging from the scrimmage the other night we will definitely run more plays from the old playbook than the more recent. I look for the combination of Bullock & Macon to rush for 1200-1500 yards this year, and I fully expect our QBs to chip in 500+ as well. If that happens I think we could return to the offense that we loved a few years ago.
hammb: that's an excellent point that I never really considered. Omar was expected to be a Harris clone with 4.59 speed who could be a legitimate threat running the ball. Although I think he had the skills to do so, that never materialized. Fortunately, he was so effective in the passing game that we didn't really notice or care for a period of time until the offense grinded to a screeching halt during the middle of last season and the one-dimesionality reared its ugly head.

With Turner and his running skills, we should absolutely return to that multiple-option scheme that was effective for us before.
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Post by jacojdm »

Jacobs4Heisman wrote:Preaching to 5,000 people at age 13? Sounds like a leader to me.
Bemoled anchor Romona Robinson once again talked up Dan and the game during the 11:00 news last night.
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Post by Falconfreak90 »

bgsufalcon24 wrote:
Falconfreak90 wrote:
falconboy wrote:
Flipper wrote:Impose our will? what kind of macho head game are you playing? You can run very effectively out of the spread. You can run effectively out of the psread in the red zone.. Yiou just have to be talented enough and displined enough to execute the play the way it's designed.

If you have linemen quick enough to pull and a back smart enough to read and find the hole, you can create a mismatch just about anywhere on the field..
And mostly agree with you. I just hope our O-line has gotten big enough and strong enough run block well enough even when the D knows we're running. I dont' want to have to rely on misdirection alone, thats where the predictability comes in our spread. We have to be able to establish a good running game or Wisky will pin their ears back and bring 9 to the box all day.
I think the O Line is the least of our worries....they're big, strong and ready to roll. We go 317, 285, 310, 354 and 301 (Nystrom, Lanning, Lichtensteiger, Markray and Huelsman across the front). Add O'Drobinak at 270 in the TE position. BTW, our height across the line is 6'5", 6'4", 6'3", 6'5" and 6'5". TE O'Drobinak goes 6'4". Our starting 5 O line averages 313 lbs. :shock: Sure, Markray skews the # a bit but still.

I think we'll be able to run the ball effectively.

GO FALCONS!
If you want to get statistical, Markray doesn't skew it by much, since the median average weight on the line is 310, just behind the mean of 313.
That's why I said Markray skews the # "a bit". :wink:
Michael W.
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