Gymnastics hazing

[PGY Tiercel]

Should we wait and see if Stehpanie Swiger posts here and tells us what happened? This is really odd , its really hard for me to see the girls of the volleyball team hazing someone. No one has left the team as far as I know so it could't have been real extreme ,but still this isn't good.

Yes Falconboy I believe we should. I'm quite sure Swiger will set all our fears at ease about the volleyball team hazing its players.
Do you ever actually stop to make sure that both of the neurons in your brain have fired in a coherent manner before you begin to talk out your butt.


Saxy, the working definition we used as hazing in my fraternity at the time was "Making anyone do anything they did not want to do"

[transfer2BGSU]

Saxy, the working definition we used as hazing in my fraternity at the time was "Making anyone do anything they did not want to do"

So in other words - having to get up at 0-dark-30 on game day for the traditional maggot breakfast of warm beer and Oreo's could have been construed as hazing. And you had to do Quigley's if you were late for said breakfast of champions.

[SaxyIrishTenor]

[rant] They need to make it clear to the ENTIRE UNIVERSITY what they define as hazing. It's been an issue before for some people and its a load of phucking bullsh!t. They can't punish people when not being clear about the rules in the first place. And I'm sorry, scavenger hunts are NOT HAZING.[/rant]

That will only make sense to two or three people. It's a bitter subject.

C'mon Saxy.

Don't hold back.

Tell us how you really feel.

I always do.

[SaxyIrishTenor]

Saxy, the working definition we used as hazing in my fraternity at the time was "Making anyone do anything they did not want to do"

And thats all well and good, and I understand it is wrong to force people to do something against their will, harmless or not.

According to the Greek Affairs Hazing Policy Compliance Form of 2006:
"BGSU Hazing Policy
�� any action or activity which does not contribute to the positive development of a person
�� inflicting or causing physical or mental harm or anxieties
�� demeaning, degrading, or disgracing a person
�� conducting any new member activity the week of finals or the week prior to finals
�� regardless of the willingness of the participant."
http://www.bgsu.edu/downloads/sa/file22594.pdf

Now, for the "event" in (my) question, "we" were cited for failing to contribute the positive development of the "university community." I fail to see where the term "university community" is included in that hazing policy, and they failed to clarify how exactly what happened DIDN'T contribute to a positive university community.

I'll all against hazing. I think the rumored hazing on BGSU's campus and others (among greeks and non-greeks alike, not discriminating here) are reprehensible, but if the university is going to punish groups and individuals for "hazing", they need to be damn clear on what hazing is. They can't make it up as they go along and shift it as they see fit. There are legal issues there.

(Sorry for being vague. Trying to avoid letting out too many old skeletons.)

[PGY Tiercel]

Saxy, the working definition we used as hazing in my fraternity at the time was "Making anyone do anything they did not want to do"

And thats all well and good, and I understand it is wrong to force people to do something against their will, harmless or not.

According to the Greek Affairs Hazing Policy Compliance Form of 2006:
"BGSU Hazing Policy
�� any action or activity which does not contribute to the positive development of a person
�� inflicting or causing physical or mental harm or anxieties
�� demeaning, degrading, or disgracing a person
�� conducting any new member activity the week of finals or the week prior to finals
�� regardless of the willingness of the participant."
http://www.bgsu.edu/downloads/sa/file22594.pdf

Now, for the "event" in (my) question, "we" were cited for failing to contribute the positive development of the "university community." I fail to see where the term "university community" is included in that hazing policy, and they failed to clarify how exactly what happened DIDN'T contribute to a positive university community.

I'll all against hazing. I think the rumored hazing on BGSU's campus and others (among greeks and non-greeks alike, not discriminating here) are reprehensible, but if the university is going to punish groups and individuals for "hazing", they need to be damn clear on what hazing is. They can't make it up as they go along and shift it as they see fit. There are legal issues there.

(Sorry for being vague. Trying to avoid letting out too many old skeletons.)

I see your point. I think it is very valid from your point of view. However, vague has some benefits to the university as well. They may feel that they have to shift it and leave it vague because if you say hazing is this, this and this you get into a bad situation where a group avoids those situations, but still "hazes" an individual. It may be to protect the Universitie's butt from the "hazee" at the expense of the "hazers".

I would also argue that by"contributing to the positive development of a person" on a college campus, impacts "positive development of the university community",

I'm sure you have every right to be upset, and probably had good intentions. I just think that in a very lawsuit happy society, common sense is tossed out the window and groups suffer.

[SaxyIrishTenor]

Saxy, the working definition we used as hazing in my fraternity at the time was "Making anyone do anything they did not want to do"

And thats all well and good, and I understand it is wrong to force people to do something against their will, harmless or not.

According to the Greek Affairs Hazing Policy Compliance Form of 2006:
"BGSU Hazing Policy
�� any action or activity which does not contribute to the positive development of a person
�� inflicting or causing physical or mental harm or anxieties
�� demeaning, degrading, or disgracing a person
�� conducting any new member activity the week of finals or the week prior to finals
�� regardless of the willingness of the participant."
http://www.bgsu.edu/downloads/sa/file22594.pdf

Now, for the "event" in (my) question, "we" were cited for failing to contribute the positive development of the "university community." I fail to see where the term "university community" is included in that hazing policy, and they failed to clarify how exactly what happened DIDN'T contribute to a positive university community.

I'll all against hazing. I think the rumored hazing on BGSU's campus and others (among greeks and non-greeks alike, not discriminating here) are reprehensible, but if the university is going to punish groups and individuals for "hazing", they need to be damn clear on what hazing is. They can't make it up as they go along and shift it as they see fit. There are legal issues there.

(Sorry for being vague. Trying to avoid letting out too many old skeletons.)

I see your point. I think it is very valid from your point of view. However, vague has some benefits to the university as well. They may feel that they have to shift it and leave it vague because if you say hazing is this, this and this you get into a bad situation where a group avoids those situations, but still "hazes" an individual. It may be to protect the Universitie's butt from the "hazee" at the expense of the "hazers".

I would also argue that by"contributing to the positive development of a person" on a college campus, impacts "positive development of the university community",

I'm sure you have every right to be upset, and probably had good intentions. I just think that in a very lawsuit happy society, common sense is tossed out the window and groups suffer.

I agree that they should not write it out verbatim, because I know how that is interpreted. Thats why we have a judicial system in this country. I do think it should be clarified, perhaps by adding the phrase "university community" or some such catch-all to really protect themselves. Lord knows, we weren't about to make a case of it, but it's not a stretch to say we might have been right in taking to a university higher power.

And I understand your point about community vs. individual, I understood the logic even then, but we could have made a strong case that because of its lack of inclusion our subsequent punishment was inherently unfair. Had it been written down or documented, I would not have taken issue with it. But, in the circumstances of what happened, it was totally wrong for the group to have been reprimanded by the university. Even in this gymnastics team example, the UNIVERSITY admits that there was a lack of communication and clarification. If that's not a problem, what is?

[Dayons_Den]

However 'weak' the charges may be I laud the administration for being proactive in this situation. Instead of letting some little thing, not even considered hazing by the participants, they are cutting it off before a slippery slope can develop. The U needs to be sensitive to these things because of bad fallout from other schools and even other teams on campus in recent years. I think in this situation the "penalty" is strong enough to send a message but not earth shattering to ruin a season or career.

[JoeFalcon]

One might argue that participating in gymnastics itself leads to psycological "harm"

It's a freaking rough sport.

[TG1996]

The U needs to be sensitive to these things because of bad fallout from other schools and even other teams on campus in recent years.

I stopped calling it "The U" at about 8pm Saturday night.

But I agree with the rest of what you said for the most part.

[Falconboy]

Never mind my hasty previous post. Don't know I got volleyball in my head. Apologies to Swiger and Co. for thinking this was them. In any case its still bad for hazing to be going on on any of our sports teams. Hope they learn a good lesson.