2007: make or break?

NWLB · Post by **NWLB** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:57 pm

Jacobs4Heisman wrote:Completely agree. I think the buyout seems cheap as well.

I think the difference between the two camps, is ours is pretty certain Brandon can't be a good head coach, and the other camp wants him to turn it around and thinks he's capable. The relative expense of buying him out seems very different depending on which camp you're in.

True enough, much as it was in the latter years of the Blackney era. I know he is a nice guy, good man, decent assistant coach. The BG habit is to cling to people that live in the town. Its part of living in BG, which isn't a bad quality. But I also think people need to be more ruthless these days. The "good 'ol days" don't fit the same model of the modern era of sports.

Flipper · Post by **Flipper** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 9:10 pm

I'm not at all convinced there's a strong correlation between attendance and winning at BGSU. I don't know that there's a correlation between losing and attendance either. I think draw better when the games are convenient and the opponents are better. I think the 12:00 kick off's in 2000 hindered our attendance as much as Gary Blackney's decline from mediocrity to "lost at f**king Buffalo".

The notion that canning a guy with a winning record is going send a "message" about our philosophy is a bit far fetched. "Luka Brazzi sleeps with the fishes"...THAT was a message. I don't think you fire people as a message to the next guy...that guy should get the point without a special note under his pillow...or a horse head.

You fire people because they can't do the job...you fire people because you can't afford to keep them.. You fire people because they look at porn on the company computers and show it to female coworkers. You can even fire someone for calling you a c**s**king motherf**ker (unles they're Teamsters or you really are a c**s**king motherf**ker, the truth is the ultimate defense). Anyway, I digress...

You don't fire someone to send a message...that's what email, Western Union and the post office is for. Unless you're George Steinbrenner.

I HATE that c**ks**king motherf**ker...

Jacobs4Heisman · Post by **Jacobs4Heisman** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 9:14 pm

Flipper wrote: You fire people because they can't do the job.

I completely agree.

NWLB · Post by **NWLB** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 9:24 pm

I agree, and the numbers support that a winning team often has a hard time getting butts into the seats. That said, the alternative remains worse, in particular because the price of tickets are higher, the department relies more on that money coming in.

Its not personal, its business, and we can do better I think. At least we can prevent previous mistakes. There are valid points on all sides, no question.

Falconfreak90 · Post by **Falconfreak90** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 11:21 pm

I think this has turned into an excellent discussion. Thanks for views on all sides.

I saw heart in some games but not nearly enough. I saw a team that didn't seem to want to be on the field anymore after the Temple game. My dad & mom were watching the BG/UT game in Florida last week. Dad said BG looked like they just wanted to end the season...at least the first half. I agreed.

I'm with Schad on this...I still support Brandon but I am getting anxious and think the next 2 years will tell all...if Coach is still here for the next 2 years.

GO FALCONS

NWLB · Post by **NWLB** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 11:48 pm

If he is .500 or less, he is gone I think. Keep him after that, and he is a lame duck for recruiting and otherwise. Do I seriously think we would fire him this year? No. I think we could. I think we should. But we won't, and overall, its a harder case to make this year. But twice in a row? Can him. Period. Anything else is a slap in the face of the fan base.

Schadenfreude · Post by **Schadenfreude** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 8:50 am

I still think we need to puzzle over the opportunity cost.

$150,000 is a lot of coin in our program. Would a buy out be the highest and best use of that money?

Whether it is depends on:

-- the kind of campaign turned in for 2007. 2-10 would be a crisis. 6-6 would not be.
-- how quickly we sense a new coach could repair any damage left behind. On this, I would observe that Urban Meyer is not the first coach to pull off a huge instant trunaround here. Blackney did it too.

And it also depends on knowing what that money wouldn't be used for.

I mentioned stadium improvements. Another example: Would it be worth missing the 15,000 mark in a Toledo year? (Keep in mind that making it this year cost BGSU money).

Jacobs4Heisman · Post by **Jacobs4Heisman** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 9:12 am

Schadenfreude wrote:I still think we need to puzzle over the opportunity cost.

$150,000 is a lot of coin in our program. Would a buy out be the highest and best use of that money?

Whether it is depends on:

-- the kind of campaign turned in for 2007. 2-10 would be a crisis. 6-6 would not be.
-- how quickly we sense a new coach could repair any damage left behind. On this, I would observe that Urban Meyer is not the first coach to pull off a huge instant trunaround here. Blackney did it too.

And it also depends on knowing what that money wouldn't be used for.

I mentioned stadium improvements. Another example: Would it be worth missing the 15,000 mark in a Toledo year? (Keep in mind that making it this year cost BGSU money).

Schedule an extra "payday" game once in the next 5 years and you can have the buyout plus all the fake attendance numbers and new rebar you want. Urban Meyer got attendance up -- what if we focus on a high-energy coach that can do the same? Maybe that coach makes a difference of 3 or 4 thousand more people coming to home games by re-instilling the attitude that BG football matters. You just made up your buyout money.

Look at it from a different angle. What if there's another conference shift or major D1A realignment in the next 3-4 years? What if Brandon continues to run the program into the ground and we have two more losing seasons in a row? Plus, it will take time for a new coach to even attempt to turn things around. What if, a conference shift happens and Toledo, NIU, and Miami leave for higher ground, and we're left holding the bag because we let Gregg Brandon stick around?

We all want to be looked at as a major college football program. We desperately wish to be spoken of amongst the big boys. Look around. The big boys are canning coaches left and right for not getting the job done. MSU, ASU, NCSU, UMiami, etc. When we let a failing head coach stick around, we're sending a message to the fan base, recruits, and the rest of the country that we're small time. I hate that.

CapitalFalcon · Post by **CapitalFalcon** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:13 pm

FWIW, in a program like ours, you need a hard-nosed, take no prisoners, in-your-face kind of coach. Look at Urban when he was here. He got the kids pumped, they were singing the fight song, I think he was a coach that wasn't afraid to jump all over your @$$ if you F**ked up. Brandon seems like a great guy and a good coach, but I just don't know if he is the kind of guy that will kick you in the pants if you deserve it. Now, that's not to say you can't win with a more mild-mannered coach. I don't see Tressel being a cantankerous curmudgeon like a Bo, a Woody, or a Doyt. But I think that this team needs that type of coach.

Now, most likely, I am talking completely out of my rear, but that's my feeling.

CapitalFalcon · Post by **CapitalFalcon** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:22 pm

Flipper wrote:The notion that canning a guy with a winning record is going send a "message" about our philosophy is a bit far fetched. "Luka Brazzi sleeps with the fishes"...THAT was a message. I don't think you fire people as a message to the next guy...that guy should get the point without a special note under his pillow...or a horse head.

It's Luca Brasi you WASP!

Flipper · Post by **Flipper** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:30 pm

Bite me, you Goomba