Omar works out for Kansas City

[Falcon30]

That's true about the Browns QB's. They need to admit that Frye was a mistake, get rid of all the QB's on their roster and start from scratch with:

1)Brady Quinn or Jamarcus Russell....assuming one of the top teams passes on QB, which I feel they will
2)Savvy Veteran. Doesn't even matter which one. Bring Testeverde in! Just someone who can step in with experience and leadership if the high draft pick gets hurt.
3)Dirt cheap project QB (Omar Jacobs, perhaps?)

That's the best way to handle the situation IMHO, though I admit that getting one of the top 2 QB's may not happen for them. If not, they may have to try to get Drew Stanton late in the first round by trading up.

A QB is the last piece of the puzzle. Get the team together THEN get a QB. See Pittsburgh, N.O. If the browns select Russell or (especially) Quinn, I am giving up because there will be no reason to root for this team for 3 years.

If I am the Browns, I avoid a QB in this draft. Quinn is a HUGE risk, and Russell is all physical talent and far from a finished product. These 2 QBs are big gambles. Trade down if possible.

[hammb]

First of all, I'm glad Omar is getting another look. I still think the guy has the physical tools, if he can get better on the mental side he still has a chance at a career in football. I'd like to see him find his way to Europe this spring/summer though. He NEEDS game experience with pro coaching.

As for the Browns there are some strange misconceptions around here about QBs in the NFL. The market will most certainly NOT be flooded with QBs this offseason, and it never is. There are 32 NFL teams and less than 15-20 QBs that are good starters. Huard will be a FA, but he is a journeyman who had a decent year this year. Shaub is a restricted FA; don't expect to see him change teams unless somebody is willing to give a 1st rounder for him. Outside of those guys who out there is even a serviceable possibility that will be on the open market this year? I cannot think of anyone else.

The Browns BADLY need improved QB play. It's easy and fun to say that it's the last piece of the puzzle, but the Browns QB play last year was horrendous. Their RB & QB play was far worse than their OL play regardless of what some people want you to believe. The OL needs improved, but funny how they didn't let off so many sacks once Anderson came in wasn't it? Sure Anderson threw to the wrong team a lot, but the fact is he knew how to get rid of the ball. Funny how our run game has gone to hell ever since we made Frye our starting QB, eh? I'm not a Droughns fan, and I'd gladly take Peterson if I had the chance, but he's not as bad as he's looked the past 20 games or so.

The fact is the Browns QB play has been absolutely abysmal. Probably the worst 2-3 in the LEAGUE. It is to the point where opposing defenses have no respect whatsoever for the pass and are just sitting there waiting to crush the run game because they can simply crowd the line. I was at the TB game and I know that's what they did all day...they had no respect for Anderson, and they shouldn't have as he had an awful game.

The Browns have a lot of holes but if you even put a mediocre QB on their team you'd see a drastic improvement. QB is absolutely the biggest gaping hole on their team right now. What's more I think it is very naive to expect to plug a QB into a good situation and expect a Big Ben like performance. To get a Drew Brees in FA is a once in a million proposition as well. The Fact is that nearly all the top teams in the NFL have top QBs. In nearly all cases that QB was a draft pick of the team they're still on. More often than not it is also a first round pick; usually in the top half or top 10 of the first round.

Let's face it the Browns need improved QB play. Now I'm not totally writing Charlie off because many QBs don't come near their potential in their 2nd season; however, I'm a little disappointed in his total lack of improvement in his starts. There is also the fact that his measurables make his ceiling fairly low. It doesn't make sense to just dump him, as he could clearly be at least a serviceable backup and has a small salary.

So if we take it as a given that improved QB play is a requirement for the Browns it comes down to three things:

1) Charlie improves -- Like I said this is still a distinct possibility, but he hasn't shown much growth yet.
2) FA/Trade -- Name me anyone out there that is even mediocre. Huard is maybe decent, but I think somebody overpays for him. No way I give up a top 5 pick for Shaub.
3) Draft one


Now, I'm not the biggest fan of either Brady Quinn or JaMarcus Russell. Russell has a sky's the limit potential, but is pretty raw. He has a tendency to make some bad decisions. Quinn seems smart enough but doesn't have the big arm or the most accurate down field arm. I'm not real impressed with either of these guys, but I'm not an NFL scout. If the Browns grade out either of these guys as a franchise possible QB they absolutely MUST jump on that. The #1 rule of drafting is you never pass up on a franchise QB if you don't have one. It's the hardest position to fill and it's the most important position on the team. To say that you're giving up on the Browns if they try to fill their biggest need with their top pick though? Seems a little shortsighted to me. Yeah, it sucks to have busts like Couch, but if you strike gold with a Manning or McNabb you just turned your franchise around for 10-15 years. We could use some of that.

[Falcons4Life]

Whoever suggested taking Trent Green as a QB for the Browns apparently didnt watch chiefs football this season!!!

TRENT SUCKS!!!

[FalconFanatic]

He's leaps and bounds better than sorry charlie

[bgsufalcon24]

He's leaps and bounds better than sorry charlie

Really? I'm not sure I agree with that. And even if he is, how old is Green, 36? 37? At that age he'd only be a stopgap at best.

[hammb]

Trent Green may be better than Charlie right now, but I'd rather take the chance on Charlie improving than spending big to bring in Trent Green.

I think it's all irrelevant anyways, because I don't think KC will let Green go, just because Huard had a couple of good games.

[Warthog]

I think it's all irrelevant anyways, because I don't think KC will let Green go

I think it is irrelevant because the Browns are going to screw up by either taking Quinn in the first round or Troy Smith way too early in the second or third.

[Globetrotter]

I hope to God the Browns would bring back Interceptaverde. He was my favorite Browns QB -- he hit the open Steeler a hell of a lot more consistently than Kordell did.

Word from the Senior Bowl is that the Browns really like Joe Thomas with their pick. We'll see what happens.

Joe Thomas should be the pick. He is the next piece they need.

[hammb]

I'd rather take Quinn than Thomas, and I'm not real sold on Quinn.

You cannot take an OL in the top 5 of the draft unless he's DOMINANT. I don't think Thomas will ever be on the same level as a Pace/Ogden/Jones. Any top 5 OL not on that level is overpaid.

The Browns need to start doing things the right way. Draft bigtime playmakers in the 1st round then build lines in the 2nd-4th. There are plenty of talented linemen to be had after the first round, the key is to actually draft them instead of always passing so you can get the WR or DB that you were shocked to see slip!

[Rollo83]

I agree that if you take Thomas at 3 or 4 you'll overpay for him. But, I don't think the Browns have much of a choice. If they wait until the second-thrid-fourth rounds to take a offensive lineman, that player won't be near the player Thomas is. Bite the bullet and fill at need at the top of the board on an unsexy pick!

[Globetrotter]

First of all, I'm glad Omar is getting another look. I still think the guy has the physical tools, if he can get better on the mental side he still has a chance at a career in football. I'd like to see him find his way to Europe this spring/summer though. He NEEDS game experience with pro coaching.

As for the Browns there are some strange misconceptions around here about QBs in the NFL. The market will most certainly NOT be flooded with QBs this offseason, and it never is. .

What position is ever flooded with superstars? It does not happen. The point is that almost every team in the league has their QB for now and their QB for the future. So the market will be full of capable veterans who have started games with no place to go to start more. Jake Plummer, David Carr, Jeff Garcia, Mark Brunnell, Brad Johnson, Joey Harrington, Kurt Warner, Kerry Collins and Drew Bledsoe will all be looking for jobs and all can provide quality. The teams are heavily invested in who they have. Many have invested early picks.

AFC North
BAL-McNair/Boller(1)
CIN-Palmer(1)/FA
CLE-?/Frye(3)
Pit-Roethlisburger(1)/Batch

AFC South
Hou-Carr?(1)/Rosenfels (Plummer has been coached by Kubiak)
IND-Manning(1)/Sorgi
JAC-Garrard/Leftwich(1)
Ten-Young(1)

AFC West
Den-Cutler(1)
KC-Green/Huard/Croyle
Oak-??
SD-Rivers(1)/Volek

AFC East
Buf-Losman(1)/Holcomb
MIA-Cullpepper(1)/Harrington(1)(Misleading)
NE-Brady
NYJ-Pennington(1)/Clemens(2)

NFC East
DAL-Romo
Giants-Manning(1)
Eagles-McNaab(1)/Garcia
Skins-Campbell(1)

NFC South
ATL-Vick(1)/Schaub
CAR-Delhomee?/Weinke
NO-Brees
TB-??Simms/Rattay

NFC North
CHI-Grossman(1)/Griese
DET-?/Kitna
GB-Favre/Rodgers(1)
Min-Jackson/Bollinger?

NFC West
ARI-Leinart(1)
Sea-Hasselback
Sf-Smith(1)
Rams-Bulger

So thats about 5 teams who may want a starter. There are 2 First round QBs in this draft. Plummer will likely get a job and Kitna and Simms may keep theirs.

If the Browns want something better then what they have, and are not looking to invest a lot of money or in the long term, this is the season to get it. The Browns have something to offer few teams do. Playing time.

[Globetrotter]

I'd rather take Quinn than Thomas, and I'm not real sold on Quinn.

You cannot take an OL in the top 5 of the draft unless he's DOMINANT. I don't think Thomas will ever be on the same level as a Pace/Ogden/Jones. Any top 5 OL not on that level is overpaid.

The Browns need to start doing things the right way. Draft bigtime playmakers in the 1st round then build lines in the 2nd-4th. There are plenty of talented linemen to be had after the first round, the key is to actually draft them instead of always passing so you can get the WR or DB that you were shocked to see slip!

The right way? That is absolutely the wrong way. Draft your tackles first and foremost. Then draft your QB so he has a chance to succeed.

Big time playmakers? Like Mike Williams? Peter Warrick? Kijana Carter? Charles Rodgers? Avoid these overhype machines like the plague. Get a guy who can play left tackle for ten years at any price and you are fine. Joe Thomas used to be a TE for gosh sakes.

The Bengals have the blueprint in how to build an offense. Just follow that and you will be fine.

[Globetrotter]

I agree that if you take Thomas at 3 or 4 you'll overpay for him. But, I don't think the Browns have much of a choice. If they wait until the second-thrid-fourth rounds to take a offensive lineman, that player won't be near the player Thomas is. Bite the bullet and fill at need at the top of the board on an unsexy pick!

Perfect. I would rather have a LT for the next ten years then another flashy WR who cant get the ball because our QB is on his butt.

[hammb]

The right way? That is absolutely the wrong way. Draft your tackles first and foremost. Then draft your QB so he has a chance to succeed.

Big time playmakers? Like Mike Williams? Peter Warrick? Kijana Carter? Charles Rodgers? Avoid these overhype machines like the plague. Get a guy who can play left tackle for ten years at any price and you are fine. Joe Thomas used to be a TE for gosh sakes.

The Bengals have the blueprint in how to build an offense. Just follow that and you will be fine.

Anybody can pick out a bunch of busts and say that you should avoid a certain position. You point out a number of WRs, and that is not the position I'd take in the first round in most cases either. I think you must find RBs & QBs in the first round if you want to be a successful team. You don't take OL in the top 5 unless you're getting a player that will be top 5 at the LT position. I don't believe Thomas is that level of prospect. I think he'll be above average, but in the salary cap era you CANNOT pay an above average LT top 5 pick money...you're talking close to 7-8 million/year...Even if he's a starter quality guy for 10 years if he isn't a stud for 10 years you're overpaying. Besides that the Browns best (and highest paid) Lineman is Schaeffer, at LT. He's not a star, but he's average...it's the rest of the line that needs upgraded for Cleveland.

Look at how top teams built their offenses, I think you'll find my way is a lot closer to reality than yours. You can build an OL through FA and with mid round picks. Just because the Browns haven't done it doesn't mean they need to start drafting 1st rounders to build that OL. They need to start actually getting good players through better scouting and some luck.

Bears
QB – Grossman (1st)
WR – Muhammed (FA, former 2nd)
WR – Berrian (3rd)
RB – Jones (FA, former 1st)
FB – McKie (UDFA)
TE – Clark (6th)
LT – Tait (FA, former 1st)
LG – Brown (FA, former 1st)
C – Kreutz (3rd)
RG – Garza (FA, former 4th)
RT – Miller (FA, former 5th)

Colts
QB – Manning (1st)
WR – Harrison (1st)
WR – Wayne (1st)
RB – Addai (1st)
FB – Dorsey (UDFA)
TE – Clark (1st)
LT – Glenn (1st)
LG – Lilja (UDFA)
C – Saturday (UDFA)
RG – Scott (5th)
RT – Diem (4th)

Chargers
QB – Rivers (1st)
WR – Parker (UDFA)
WR – McCardell (FA, former 12th)
RB – Tomlinson (1st)
FB – Neal (FA, former 4th)
TE – Gates (UDFA)
LT – McNeill (2nd)
LG – Dielman (UDFA)
C – Hardwick (3rd)
RG – Goff (FA, former 3rd)
RT – Olivea (7th)

Saints
QB – Brees (FA, former 2nd)
WR – Horn (FA, former 4th)
WR – Colston (7th)
RB – McAllister (1st)
FB – Karney (5th)
TE – Campbell (UDFA)
LT – Brown (1st)
LG – Nesbit (UDFA)
C – Faine (trade, former 1st)
RG – Evans (4th)
RT – Stinchcomb (2nd)

Eagles
QB – McNabb (1st)
WR – Stallworth (Trade, former 1st)
WR – Brown (2nd)
RB – Westbrook (3rd)
FB – Tapeh (5th)
TE – Smith (2nd)
LT – Thomas (1st)
LG – Herremans (4th)
C – Jackson (UDFA)
RG – Andrews (1st)
RT – Runyan (FA, former 4th)

Bengals – Your blueprint
QB – Palmer (1st)
WR – Johnson (2nd)
WR – Houshmandzadeh (7th)
RB – Johnson (4th)
FB – Johnson (4th)
TE – Kelly (2nd)
LT – Jones (1st)
LG – Steinbach (2nd)
C – Braham (FA, former 3rd)
RG – Williams (FA, former 2nd)
RT – Anderson (1st)

Steelers
QB – Roethlisberger (1st)
WR – Ward (3rd)
WR – Holmes (1st)
RB – Parker (UDFA)
FB – Kreider (UDFA)
TE – Miller (1st)
LT – Smith (2nd)
LG – Faneca (1st)
C – Hartings (FA, 1st round)
RG – Simmons (1st)
RT – Starks (3rd)

Rams
QB – Bulger (6th)
WR – Holt (1st)
WR – Bruce (1st)
RB – Jackson (1st)
FB – Hedgecock (7th)
TE – Klopfenstein (2nd)
LT – Pace (1st)
LG – Setterson (7th)
C – Incognito (3rd)
RG – Timmerman (FA, Former 7th)
RT – Barron (1st)

These are the teams that I deem the best in the NFL and most of the best NFL offenses. Here is what I see. 30% of the OL players are FA acquisitions. The only position that is consistently filled with top draft picks are LTs. The average draft position of the rest of the players is 4th round.

Conversely, the QBs are almost all 1st rounders (Brees & Bulger the only exceptions). The average draft position of the RBs is 2nd round (greatly skewed by Parker. WRs come from all over the map, as do FBs & TEs.

Looking at where the Browns pick (top 5) how many of these players were top 5 picks? Manning, McNabb, Palmer, Rivers, Pace, & Tomlinson are the only ones that were in the top 5. What do you notice? QBs.

What I see when I look at all this is that there are a lot of ways to build a team. The LTs, QBs, and RBs are the positions that are dominated by 1st rounders. The rest can be filled through FA, later rounds, etc. My argument is that Schaeffer is the Browns best lineman, and NOT the position we need to replace. Conversely our RB & QB are atrocious. As such we should be looking at the QBs & RBs at the top of this draft. Now if we don't like any of them, then fine you take Thomas and you've now got 2 LTs and an assload of cap tied into them. I'd feel a heckuva lot better about having a top 5 pick QB to groom and some mid round linemen, than I would with Joe Thomas and the current skill players (or mid round skill players). Until you get a stud at QB and RB you will not have an offense like these above teams, that is clear. It seems pretty obvious that most of the best teams chose to use first rounders on those positions...I say the Browns should as well.

Certainly there is no set mold to build an offense. You point to the Bengals, but looking around at the other teams they all followed different paths to getting the top offenses in the league. The fact is it doesn't matter what position you take unless you start getting GOOD players instead of busts. I think the Browns would be much better served by finding a good QB or RB than they would be with a good LT.

[Globetrotter]

If I said that you need to build your entire offensive line out of first rounders I overstated myself. The tackles need to be high picks or of high quality. No QB can succeed without a quality line. From what I heard Schaeffer was not a quality LT. I think our disagreement is really whehter or not Schaeffer can play LT. If he can, then no you don't draft Thomas. If he can't, I think you have to. I think that browns line is full of talent and is a LT away from being very solid. RBs can be found in later rounds, and this draft is full of guys with question marks at that position who will fall. Also Micheal Turner is a FA and the Browns OC is from SD.

As far as a the QB goes, I think you need a first round QB or to get lucky with one through a trade or FA. I agree with that. But any QB behind a pourous line is not going to have a chance for success. A QB needs to be drafted by the Browns early, just not this year.

If I am the Browns I take Joe Thomas round one. Try to sign Micheal Turner and go from there. If Matt Schaub was available I would go for him as well. They may both get 1st round type tenders or money, I don't know. But that would be my initial plan.

When the Bengals took Levi Jones with the tenth pick people were upset. No one is upset now.