Omar works out for Kansas City

hammb · Post by **hammb** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 11:46 pm

I think you're dead wrong about the Browns OL. Shaefer is an average LT. No star, but average. They're also paying him $7 million/year. He has no experience playing any other position on the line other than LT so paying him that kind of money to play out of position seems like a bad idea to me.

Andruzzi is washed up, toast, done for. Tucker is likely to retire. Coleman is a FA. Bentley will most likely not be back in '07, from what I'm hearing it's not guaranteed he'll ever play again. Schaefer is the one respectable part of that OL. They need help on the OL, but LT is not where they need to start.

RBs can come from the later rounds, but looking through the teams that are at the upper echelon not too many of them took that route. The best RBs are usually first rounders. The only teams that succeed by finding them late is those that have the best OLs in the league, and the Browns are a long way from that. Quite frankly I'm of the belief that the Browns OL was not as bad as advertised last year. When Anderson came in all of a sudden they didn't give up sacks any more. I've got a feeling that if you put a competent RB in there they would've gained yards as well; Reuben left a LOT of yards on the field last year. They need improvement, but they were not as bad as most people made them out to be. A RB that could actually hit a hole & a QB that actually gets rid of the ball would make a world of difference.

The Falcons have said for awhile that Schaub will never be going anywhere. I think I read somewhere that the SD GM said Turner will be getting the first round tender as well. I don't see how those teams DON'T give those 2 guys the first round tender it's not that much money, really.

If I'm the Browns I have Peterson, both QBs, and possibly Alan Branch ahead of Thomas on my draft board. I don't see Thomas as more than a slightly above average NFL LT (I don't think he's as good a prospect as Levi Jones, and Levi is not exactly a probowler), and that isn't a giant leap (IMO) from Shaefer's averageness. Actually this year's draft is TERRIBLE for RBs. Outside of Lynch & Peterson there isn't one player that I see making an immediate impact. Irons, Pittman, and Walker are mildly intriguing later round picks, but I don't think any of them have what it takes. If you want a late round RB next year is shaping up to be a very good RB draft.

eRichFalcon · Post by **eRichFalcon** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 12:12 am

wow...im amazed at how my thoughts on the browns qb situation has really sparked this...anyhow

The thing about all of this is that the draft is such a high risk-high reward adventure, and you can't be overly concerned about busts...trust your scouts, determine who grades out the highest at a position of need.

The busts will happen, but they're impossibly hard to predict. Personally, I'd stay away from Adrian Peterson for injury reasons. I think Joe Thomas will be solid, but than again, look at the last blue-chip LT to come from the Big 10...Robert Gallery from Iowa in '04, and he's struggled. I personally think you get your QB and build around him. This could work for the Browns since they have some weapons on offense, and I don't feel line issues need to be solved with high draft picks. Also keep in mind LeCharles Bentley will be back eventually to help shore things up.

The excellent research by hammb shows that the highly successful Top 5 picks are mostly QB's and most good teams have an early pick invested in the position. People lose sight of the fact the Tom Brady's and Joe Montana's are the exception, and that not every high pick is a Ryan Leaf or Akili Smith. ALL PICKS ARE RISKS. Unfortunately for the Browns, the safest pick in this draft will be Calvin Johnson, who is not at a need position and will probably be gone anyway.

But if the Browns are not sold on Quinn or Russell (if available), and they have Thomas or Peterson graded higher, go for it. You have to trust your board.

I agree with Globetrotter that Matt Shaub would be a good pickup, but only at an acceptable cost. The Falcons will want more than a 1st rounder for him, and that's pretty steep for a guy who is unproven. They could do it, but they need to be damn sure he's the future. Also, good call on Michael Turner, that would be a nice acquisition as well.

I'm not a Browns fan, but I call them as I see them. The take home message, for them and all teams, is trust your scouting and stick to your board and your plan to build a winner.

Go Bears!

Jacobs4Heisman · Post by **Jacobs4Heisman** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 12:25 am

As Hammb said, the bottom line is this -- If you feel, as an organization, that there is a franchise QB on the board when you pick, you absolutely MUST pull the trigger. Offensive line is extremely important, and I think JT will be an excellent left tackle, you can't draft a tackle over a franchise QB when QB is a glaring need. You just can't do it. There are too many capable lineman available in rounds 2-4. Personally, I wouldn't touch Russell and especially Quinn with a ten-foot pole in the top 5, but I'm far from a pro scout.

The lineman in rds 2-4 concept is what has killed the browns in years past. That's where being stubbornly BPA in your philosophy can hurt you when those skill guys start to slip to your slots. You need to be able to find quality lineman on both sides of the ball past the first two rounds.

If I'm the Browns, I still lean towards Thomas, Peterson, and Branch, in that order. But, if they think highly of Quinn or Russell, and they are on the board, they'll take their guy, and they should.

In reality, the Browns have so many holes right now, they'll be happy if they can just avoid another bust. You couldn't really fault them for taking any of the top 5-7 guys.

Globetrotter · Post by **Globetrotter** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 1:20 am

hammb wrote:I think you're dead wrong about the Browns OL. Shaefer is an average LT. No star, but average. They're also paying him $7 million/year. He has no experience playing any other position on the line other than LT so paying him that kind of money to play out of position seems like a bad idea to me.

Andruzzi is washed up, toast, done for. Tucker is likely to retire. Coleman is a FA. Bentley will most likely not be back in '07, from what I'm hearing it's not guaranteed he'll ever play again. Schaefer is the one respectable part of that OL. They need help on the OL, but LT is not where they need to start.

RBs can come from the later rounds, but looking through the teams that are at the upper echelon not too many of them took that route. The best RBs are usually first rounders. The only teams that succeed by finding them late is those that have the best OLs in the league, and the Browns are a long way from that. Quite frankly I'm of the belief that the Browns OL was not as bad as advertised last year. When Anderson came in all of a sudden they didn't give up sacks any more. I've got a feeling that if you put a competent RB in there they would've gained yards as well; Reuben left a LOT of yards on the field last year. They need improvement, but they were not as bad as most people made them out to be. A RB that could actually hit a hole & a QB that actually gets rid of the ball would make a world of difference.

The Falcons have said for awhile that Schaub will never be going anywhere. I think I read somewhere that the SD GM said Turner will be getting the first round tender as well. I don't see how those teams DON'T give those 2 guys the first round tender it's not that much money, really.

If I'm the Browns I have Peterson, both QBs, and possibly Alan Branch ahead of Thomas on my draft board. I don't see Thomas as more than a slightly above average NFL LT (I don't think he's as good a prospect as Levi Jones, and Levi is not exactly a probowler), and that isn't a giant leap (IMO) from Shaefer's averageness. Actually this year's draft is TERRIBLE for RBs. Outside of Lynch & Peterson there isn't one player that I see making an immediate impact. Irons, Pittman, and Walker are mildly intriguing later round picks, but I don't think any of them have what it takes. If you want a late round RB next year is shaping up to be a very good RB draft.

Some thoughts. If the Browns line is so poor in terms of quality players how are they a decent line as you suggested. If Andruzzi is washed up, then draft Thomas to play LT and have Schaffer play Guard. Schaeffer in no way compares to Levi. Levi has been a pro bowl alternate in a conference that has Jonathon Ogden and Willie Anderson.

The Falcons can't control where Schaub goes after this season. They won't Franchise him next year and he would be a fool to sign anything but the one year tender.

As far as RBs go, beyond Peterson I really don't think anyone should be a first rounder. That does not mean it is terrible for RBs. Not Topheavy but not terrible. I do think Lynch, Irons, Walker and Bush could all be great backs. All have holes like you said.

If I am the Browns I focus on OL and get the QB next year. As a bengasl fan I will be very happy if they take Brady Quinn or Jamarcus. I think they both could be solid QBs, but both have holes. And they won't do anything in that offense. I am still waiting for Kellen Winslow to blow up. The only thing I am envious of the Browns of is there LB corps. Drafting a QB is a recipe for another bad year, then Crennel leaves, then that coach has to build his team. It will be great to be a Bengals fan.

Globetrotter · Post by **Globetrotter** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 1:29 am

eRichFalcon wrote:
The excellent research by hammb shows that the highly successful Top 5 picks are mostly QB's and most good teams have an early pick invested in the position.

That is circular logic. If the Browns are not in love with one of these guys, and lose the coin flip....I might just trade down. One of those QBS could surely fall. There just is not need for them. if the Lions, Raiders and Bucs have already picked and one or none have gone, they could still get that QB a ways down.

Great point about Robert Gallery. I think that Joe Thomas is certainly benefitiing from Sam Baker and Jake Long not coming out.

hammb · Post by **hammb** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:17 am

Globetrotter wrote:
Some thoughts. If the Browns line is so poor in terms of quality players how are they a decent line as you suggested. If Andruzzi is washed up, then draft Thomas to play LT and have Schaffer play Guard. Schaeffer in no way compares to Levi. Levi has been a pro bowl alternate in a conference that has Jonathon Ogden and Willie Anderson.

If the Browns pay Schaeffer $7 million/year to play Guard (a position he's never played) I'll burn their training facility down...he's going to be the LT. If anything they might move him to RT, but he'd be highly paid for that position and has never played it either. And I certainly didn't mean to compare Schaeffer to Jones. I think Jones is a tier above Schaeffer, but still a step below Pace/Ogden/Walter Jones. I like Levi a lot, in fact was hoping the Browns would take him, but the Bengals took him way earlier than expected.

I don't think the Browns OL is good, but I don't think they're as bad as our skill guys made them look. Andruzzi was awful this year. Coleman played solid but is a FA; I hope they resign him, but you never know. Fraley actually didn't play too poorly either. Tucker was awful before going down and nobody that we put there could hold down the spot. If the Browns re-signed Fraley & Coleman, added a new LG & RT I think they'd be much improved next year. You don't need to use a top 5 pick to get a LG or RT.

The Falcons can't control where Schaub goes after this season. They won't Franchise him next year and he would be a fool to sign anything but the one year tender.

True. I still expect him to sign a one year tender, and at this point I'm mostly concerned with THIS offseason. If the Browns still haven't addressed the QB position, and then Schaub is on the market I'd take a gander at him, but this year I expect them to give him the 1st round tender for sure.

As far as RBs go, beyond Peterson I really don't think anyone should be a first rounder. That does not mean it is terrible for RBs. Not Topheavy but not terrible. I do think Lynch, Irons, Walker and Bush could all be great backs. All have holes like you said.

I had forgotten about Bush, I'm not fond of him either. I don't like big backs that don't play with power. Reminds me too much of Dayne. Lynch is the best of the rest, but this is a really poor year for RBs. Like I said, next year has guys like Rice, McFadden, Hart, and quite a few others...this is a weak year as far as RBs go.

If I am the Browns I focus on OL and get the QB next year. As a bengasl fan I will be very happy if they take Brady Quinn or Jamarcus. I think they both could be solid QBs, but both have holes. And they won't do anything in that offense. I am still waiting for Kellen Winslow to blow up. The only thing I am envious of the Browns of is there LB corps. Drafting a QB is a recipe for another bad year, then Crennel leaves, then that coach has to build his team. It will be great to be a Bengals fan.

I definitely want to add some OL & DL talent in this offseason, but I am not of the belief that you must take them in the first round to do so. LT is not the weakest link on our line, so I would look to add one starter on the line in FA, and then look that direction in the 2nd round. Every year there are at least 5-6 OL that fall into the 2nd/3rd round that are starters their rookie years. As I've stated the problem with the Browns is that they haven't drafted any OL in that range either. They continually grab WRs & DBs that "they couldn't believe dropped". If they make a commitment to the OL in Rd. 2 there is no need to take one in Rd. 1 as well.

IMO the Browns have a chance to get a really special player in Peterson. The injuries scare me a little, but he is, IMO, the best prospect in this draft not named Calvin Johnson. They are also in prime position to get one of the elite QBs of this draft. Personally, I'm not sold on either of them, but I'm not a scout and don't know nearly as much about them as our scouts do. If they think one of those QBs is a future star they MUST take them. I still thnk you're best off to take your QB first, because they generally take longer to develop. By the time they start playing well in their 2nd/3rd year you could add some additional players around them.

FWIW, I actually believe the Browns DL is in more dire need than their OL is. The OL needs 2, maybe 3 new players. The DL has only 1 legit player (Roye), and he is getting way up their in years. They have no good starters and no depth on the DL.

The way I see the Browns offseason this year is take Peterson or a QB at their top spot in the draft. The rest of the offseasaon should focus solely on OL & DL.

murph · Post by **murph** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:44 am

I hope the Browns take Thomas in the first round, if he's there. If not, then trade down and pick up another first day pick. Their line could be much better next year. I think Shaffer's fine as a tackle. Like someone said earlier, not a star, but solid. Same with Fraley at center. Eric Steinbach is going to be a free agent, and I'd like to see the Browns get him. I mean, of all the legal problems the Bengals had, drunken boating really isn't that bad

If they get Steinbach, I don't know about the other guard.

I think Peterson is too injury prone. I was impressed with Russell in the Sugar Bowl, but that's the only game I saw him in. I don't think I'm alone in that. And really, how tough was it to tear up Notre Dame's secondary this year? I like Quinn, but I don't like the idea of drafting a quarterback to be the immediate starter, and that's what would happen with him. As far as running backs, I'd love to see Pittman or Darius Walker in the 3rd round.

But really, when you look at this team, what DON'T the need? TE, LB, FB, and safties. That's it. Every other position needs and upgrade. I just don't think a QB is the right way to go in this draft. There are more pertinent needs than that.

CrazyFan · Post by **CrazyFan** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 9:34 am

I say Lerner should just move the team to Oklahoma City and we should start all over again. Who knows. When they get a team back maybe Tim Couch has a brother that will be available for the first round pick in 2010????

Globetrotter · Post by **Globetrotter** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 12:14 pm

murph wrote:I hope the Browns take Thomas in the first round, if he's there. If not, then trade down and pick up another first day pick. Their line could be much better next year. I think Shaffer's fine as a tackle. Like someone said earlier, not a star, but solid. Same with Fraley at center. Eric Steinbach is going to be a free agent, and I'd like to see the Browns get him. I mean, of all the legal problems the Bengals had, drunken boating really isn't that bad If they get Steinbach, I don't know about the other guard.

I think Peterson is too injury prone. I was impressed with Russell in the Sugar Bowl, but that's the only game I saw him in. I don't think I'm alone in that. And really, how tough was it to tear up Notre Dame's secondary this year? I like Quinn, but I don't like the idea of drafting a quarterback to be the immediate starter, and that's what would happen with him. As far as running backs, I'd love to see Pittman or Darius Walker in the 3rd round.

But really, when you look at this team, what DON'T the need? TE, LB, FB, and safties. That's it. Every other position needs and upgrade. I just don't think a QB is the right way to go in this draft. There are more pertinent needs than that.

As far as Steinbech goes, you will be paying LT money to a guard. That is the only reason the Bengals won't resign him. I expect them to Franchise him though and try to trade him to a team that wants him to play LT.

hammb · Post by **hammb** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 1:46 pm

I would gladly take Steinbach, but I agree somebody will pay him to play LT, and the Browns shouldn't pay that much. I don't know if they'll franchise him though...you're then paying him the average of the top 5 LTs & I'm not sure any team will pay him like that.

My #1 FA target for the Browns is Leonard Davis.

Jacobs4Heisman · Post by **Jacobs4Heisman** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 10:08 pm

You guys hoping to trade down are dreaming. Butch Davis is in college now.
Trading down always sounds great when you have a lot of holes, but it rarely happens, especially in a very weak draft such as this one.

Tricky_Falcon · Post by **Tricky_Falcon** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 11:22 pm

Good luck to Omar and Go Bears!

MACMAN · Post by **MACMAN** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 10:28 am

FalconFanatic wrote:
UK Peregrine wrote:
BGDrew wrote:I doubt they'd drop Croyle. I'm guessing they'll get rid of Huard or Green. Otherwise, I have no idea why they'd be trying out Omar.
Just to elaborate on what BGDrew stated, the word out of the KC is that Huard's contract is up and KC needs to be re-signed him. If Huard does re-sign, then KC could let Green move on, especially since he is slated to make 7.2 million next season. If Huard doesn't re-sign, obviously a QB slot becomes available that way as well.
This could be good for Omar and the Browns... If KC lets Green go the Browns could pick him up and we would have a solid vet QB, and not have to waste ANOTHER draft pick on a crappy QB cough* frye cough* Good Luck OMAR!

The browns should have dumped romeo...and as far as QBs go....the browns need alot more than just a qb, moeny would be better spent elsewhere.

eRichFalcon · Post by **eRichFalcon** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 11:43 am

Money would be better spent than on the player that every offensive snap runs through? Are you sure about that?

It's not that I'm completely sold on Quinn or Russell or any potential FA, but the Browns need to solidify the position, and they won't be good until they do.

UK Peregrine · Post by **UK Peregrine** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 2:59 pm

Omar signed a future contract with KC today.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/player ... m=&id=3598