Big trouble at the U of T

BGorDeath · Post by **BGorDeath** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 8:29 pm

Coach Numnutz has to be involved with this. The article says that players received groceries. If Numnutz found out how to get free groceries, you know he is part of the scheme.

Flipper · Post by **Flipper** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:23 pm

Point shaving is a heavy duty crime...there were guys from BC that did years in prison for that. If it is indeed tru that athletes from the football and basketball team were given money and food by gamblers ...even if it can't be shown that they shaved points in return...I would think it could very likely be the end of Joplin and Amstutz at UT..

Institutional control is a hot topic with the NCAA....

orangeandbrown · Post by **orangeandbrown** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:27 pm

I'm just sick about this. As much as I root against UT, this is terrible for our conference.

Jacobs4Heisman · Post by **Jacobs4Heisman** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:31 pm

Flipper wrote:Point shaving is a heavy duty crime...there were guys from BC that did years in prison for that. If it is indeed tru that athletes from the football and basketball team were given money and food by gamblers ...even if it can't be shown that they shaved points in return...I would think it could very likely be the end of Joplin and Amstutz at UT..

Institutional control is a hot topic with the NCAA....

It sounds like Vegas has a large body of irregular betting activity by known associates. Combine that with the money trail, taped phone conversations, and Scooter rolling over, and it seems like this case has a bow on it.

The only questions in my mind are the extent, what other schools might be involved, and possible penalties levied. Maybe when Freak quotes the all-time record to rebuff the UT trolls, he'll have better numbers now.

Maybe Gregg Brandon is really 4-0 against Toledo.

Flipper · Post by **Flipper** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:34 pm

You know, reading some of the stuff on the gambling forums linked elsewhere, it doesn't sound like there's much confidence in the MAC amongst the gaming community.

Is UT the story or the beginning of the story?

Bleeding Orange · Post by **Bleeding Orange** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:35 pm

orangeandbrown wrote:I'm just sick about this. As much as I root against UT, this is terrible for our conference.

I agree, but I can't help but think about it this way - how terrible is this for UT fans and alumni? As much as I love to loathe those buggers, I haven't been able to stop the "what if I were in their shoes?" game. If I found out that BG players were involved in these types of activities - through a federal indictment, no less - I would be absolutely devastated.

As an alumnus of any university, you know why that school is great because of your intimate involvement with it as a student, and that is why many of us remain fans of our universities until the day that we die. What really stings in situations like these, I think, is that you know that your university is still an upstanding institution that benefits it's students and it's surrounding communities in countless ways, but you know that it is inevitable that the media and the public at large will black-ball your Alma mater because of the stupid actions of a handful (hopefully!) of idiotic 18-22 year old kids. That sucks in so many different ways.

What sucks for me, personally (and I'm sure others), are the questions that even Toledo fans have so poignantly raised. For Toledo fans, those questions resemble "is this why so many passes were dropped?" For me, the most painful question is whether or not the 2003 win over UT - one of the most exciting games I've ever been at - was fixed. That is selfish, I know, but I think it is legitimate, and this is exactly why these types of activities are so abhorrent.

"SAY IT AIN'T SO, JOE!"

Dayons_Den · Post by **Dayons_Den** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:38 pm

Flipper wrote:You know, reading some of the stuff on the gambling forums linked elsewhere, it doesn't sound like there's much confidence in the MAC amongst the gaming community.

Is UT the story or the beginning of the story?

I've long said (for about 10 years now) that the lines on M.A.C. hoops are odd to begin-with. I've always said you can make a lot of money on M.A.C. and Valley hoops because the oddsmakers see #24 Kent State playing at .500 Bowling Green and the line is Kent by 12 when they don't take in to account things like Anderson Arena. . . .

This is very, very interesting. It will be quite captivating to see what else is exposed.

redskins4ever · Post by **redskins4ever** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:39 pm

I have had no insider info on betting MAC games, but I will you this much... VEGAS is often an idiot about how big their spreads are and I have taken advantage of this fact time and time again.

Im not saying that there wasn't point shaving going on, this looks like a pretty good beginning for the Feds, so don't take this as me saying that this wasn't happening.

But if you want to make easy money betting sports. Bet MAC vs. OOC football games... you can easily walk away up money.

Rightupinthere · Post by **Rightupinthere** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 11:07 pm

Wow.

This is not something to celebrate nor enjoy. My spidey sense tells me this is going to have far reaching effects on the MAC - including BG.

Schadenfreude · Post by **Schadenfreude** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 11:57 pm

I don't know that it affects us, except to the extent that it may throw cold water on the notion of Toledo receiving an invite from the Big East.

I have no idea if Toledo-to-the-Big East was ever realistic at all, but the idea seem to be implied once in a while by the way fans talk about the possible shakeups to come.

So, if this kills that particular idea, that actually could be a very good thing for us and for the conference.

Shifting gears: Early in this thread, I suggested that this sort of thing might have occured before in the MAC or similar-sized conferences.

That's speculation, first of all. Pure speculation.

More importantly, despite my speculation, I don't see how what may have happened at Toledo necessarily leads to another MAC school. Scooter may sing like a bird -- and I hope he does -- but I don't see why he would have anything to say about points being shaved in games not involving Toledo.

Flipper · Post by **Flipper** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 12:07 am

Depends on what players were "interviewed" in Detroit by Scooters connection....do we know for certain it was just UT players?

Schadenfreude · Post by **Schadenfreude** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 12:11 am

Flipper wrote:Depends on what players were "interviewed" in Detroit by Scooters connection....do we know for certain it was just UT players?

I think we have to assume that unless we see an indication otherwise. Don't you?

Flipper · Post by **Flipper** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 12:15 am

I don't know...the line in the criminal complaint that talks about trusted players recruiting other players is a bit open ended.

Brown Polyester · Post by **Brown Polyester** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:35 am

From a online gambling site's forum (note 2005 post date):
http://tinyurl.com/3822d8

More telling (very, very telling) is this man's avatar and the line below his forum name:
http://forum.therx.com/showpost.php?p=3 ... stcount=44
Unless he just changed it and doing so reverts old postings too....we've got someone who knew in November of '06.

Schadenfreude · Post by **Schadenfreude** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:39 am

The Blade's report today:

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dl ... /703310439

And today's Detroit Free Press:

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/arti ... /703310364

Flipper: Check out this line from the Free Press article:

No other players were identified in the complaint, so it's unclear how many players or other Toledo teams were involved, or whether teams from other schools are being investigated.

On a side note: I think "Brown Polyester" is a killer handle.