Big trouble at the U of T

[rocketfootball]

With all due respect NWLB, and you did make a couple of good points, but we all know how you feel about UT and that obviously affected your post above.

While it could go to other sports than football and maybe men's basketball, it could also just as easily (if not easier) go all the way to another school. In fact, the mention of another school from the MAC with unusual betting patterns in 2004 does not surprise me. A forum where big-time sports bettors post had been saying back a couple of years ago that many MAC games were looking fixed to them and they were telling people to stay away from MAC games, and not just Toledo games.

Stutz did not sound a bit shaken in his "sound bite." Anyone that has ever interviewed him in person knows that he is not a good speaker and always sounds like that.

I'm not sure what your whole paragraph about the SMU death penalty and other schools not penalizing themselves is supposed to mean, and to be honest I am too damn tired and watching three kids under the age of four right now so I am not going to even try.

I'm sure it will hurt UT's image and depending on how bad this gets it could hurt other things. I can tell you that MOB has been in contact with all of the large donors for our campaign and they all expressed a desire to move on from this and continue to fulfill their donation agreements.

Dr Jacobs is more of a sports supporter than our last president. In fact, Jacobs has said that he feels athletics can be an important part of a University. MOB has told me that he feels he is getting stronger support from Dr Jacobs than he received before Jacobs became the president. To say that Dr Jacobs wants to see what athletics will do for the University before making massive committments is just weird to hear. Dr Jacobs has come in and he is the one that stopped all of the procastination on the Savage Hall/Downtown Arena stuff. He said we will renovate Savage Hall. He has approved the renovation and architects were hired a couple of months ago and are hard at work. Dr Jacobs agreed to a multi-purpose indoor practice facility to be constructed next to the renovated Savage Hall. This facility will include a full 100 yard football field and a couple of small basketball courts that can be used by the men's and women's basketball teams as well as the women's volleyball team. He has said that we will then expand the Larimer Athletic Complex and increase the size of the weight room and bring in new equipment. And just last fall he approved the addition of a second scoreboard at the Glass Bowl, this one is in the South end zone. Dr Jacobs has done more for athletics in the last year and a half than the previous president did in 5 years.



At this point there is no telling what will happen in this scandal, but I have a feeling we will never see how big it really was. The FBI didn't even start looking into it until November of 2005 and the FBI doesn't charge people on heresay alone. They are very careful and make sure they have all the evidence they need before they even consider charging someone.

[Redwingtom]

I can tell you that MOB has been in contact with all of the large donors for our campaign and they all expressed a desire to move on from this and continue to fulfill their donation agreements.

Well, it sure must be comforting to the Toledo faithful that your AD is handling the most important aspect of this unfortunate situation.

[h2oville rocket]

I can tell you that MOB has been in contact with all of the large donors for our campaign and they all expressed a desire to move on from this and continue to fulfill their donation agreements.

Well, it sure must be comforting to the Toledo faithful that your AD is handling the most important aspect of this unfortunate situation.

Because it would never occure to BG's AD to continue to look after the most important part of their job-keeping the $ rolling in.

[rocketfootball]

I can tell you that MOB has been in contact with all of the large donors for our campaign and they all expressed a desire to move on from this and continue to fulfill their donation agreements.

Well, it sure must be comforting to the Toledo faithful that your AD is handling the most important aspect of this unfortunate situation.

I have a slight idea of what you are trying to get at. For your information, UT has been told they HAVE to wait until they get the OK from the FBI in terms of doing their own internal investigation. UT is not permitted to do an investigation or interview other players until the FBI says so.

[JoeFalcon]

I can tell you that MOB has been in contact with all of the large donors for our campaign and they all expressed a desire to move on from this and continue to fulfill their donation agreements.

Well, it sure must be comforting to the Toledo faithful that your AD is handling the most important aspect of this unfortunate situation.

Great point!

I think the clinical term for what Mr. O'Brien and rocketfootball are experiencing right now is denial. The next step is anger, which some in the UT community have already moved on to. We can't expect them all to move at the same pace.

[rocketfootball]

I can tell you that MOB has been in contact with all of the large donors for our campaign and they all expressed a desire to move on from this and continue to fulfill their donation agreements.

Well, it sure must be comforting to the Toledo faithful that your AD is handling the most important aspect of this unfortunate situation.

Great point!

I think the clinical term for what Mr. O'Brien and rocketfootball are experiencing right now is denial. The next step is anger, which some in the UT community have already moved on to. We can't expect them all to move at the same pace.

I don't think I understand. Did you see my post on here saying that I believe the NCAA should make an example of any student-athlete involved in this and the NCAA should also make an example of Toledo when this is all said and done? I'm actually saying that the NCAA should be stricter than normal and harder than normal on Toledo with any possible probation/sanctions so that hopefully anyone else out there at any school thinks before doing this kind of thing.

That is not denial. I think you are too blinded by all of the brown and orange to know what denial looks like.

[bgsuman]

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=2823507

The oddsmaker, Kenny White, chief operating officer of Las Vegas Sports Consultants, said that beginning in the 2004 season he and his associates noticed that there was heavy betting on certain Toledo football games and those of another Mid-American Conference team he declined to name.

"But then it stopped and it was just Toledo," he said.

[Flipper]

Guys...Gals...transgenders...Why don't we let this shake out before we start pointing fingers. The FBI and NCAA have been on this and continue to be. I'm sure the University is doing what they can to stay abreast of the situation. When the dust has settled and the facts are known, we can dissect the events leading up to and following this debacle.

I do not fault the AD for moving ahead with other projects. The University needs a strong advocate now more than ever. I would expect Greg Christopher to do the same (....for Boise State... )

I think Toledo Tom is a goner...Joplin likely will be if it is shown the basketball team was involved. Losing guys like that that ARE Toledo will rip the heart out of that athletic department. It could get VERY ugly in T-town

More importantly, the implication of another school puts a cloud over this conference that may not be cleared for some time.

[transfer2BGSU]

This is a very unfortunate incident for UT, but they have a good man at the the helm right now in Dr. Lloyd Jacobs. I believe he is going to make great strides as President.

Right now, the UT Administration and Athletic Department are doing exactly what the feds have told them to do - NOTHING. The FBI is investigating the matter and it does not need or want UT to interfere with its investigation. If the time comes for UT to conduct their own investigation, I feel that Dr. Jacobs will take the appropriate action.

While we like to make jokes about Amstutz and Joplin, I feel sorry for both coaches right now. These men are UT graduates and have a connection to their programs that we would love to see with our coaches.

[Redwingtom]

I can tell you that MOB has been in contact with all of the large donors for our campaign and they all expressed a desire to move on from this and continue to fulfill their donation agreements.

Well, it sure must be comforting to the Toledo faithful that your AD is handling the most important aspect of this unfortunate situation.

I have a slight idea of what you are trying to get at. For your information, UT has been told they HAVE to wait until they get the OK from the FBI in terms of doing their own internal investigation. UT is not permitted to do an investigation or interview other players until the FBI says so.

Okay, so let me get this straight. The University of Toledo could end up being criminally liable for something a paid employee did but they can't try and find out any facts in order to prepare a swift and adequate defense until the FBI tells them to?

Sounds like your AD should be fired now if this is the approach they are taking.

I am no lawyer or constitutional expert, but I can't imagine the FBI has the authority to tell UT that their lawyers can't investigate to determine any potential exposure to criminal liability that the university may be subject to.

But that was not the original point I was making anyway. I was just observing that I think I see where Toledo's priorities are right now.

[Flipper]

I don't think the University has much to worry about as an institution so far as criminal proceedings go. Individuals speaking with folks who are targets or material witnesses in an ongoing Federal prosecution sure could face obstruction of justice charges if the Feds think they're coaching witnesses.

They're smart to steer clear until they hear otherwise.

[rocketfootball]

Okay, so let me get this straight. The University of Toledo could end up being criminally liable for something a paid employee did but they can't try and find out any facts in order to prepare a swift and adequate defense until the FBI tells them to?

Sounds like your AD should be fired now if this is the approach they are taking.

I am no lawyer or constitutional expert, but I can't imagine the FBI has the authority to tell UT that their lawyers can't investigate to determine any potential exposure to criminal liability that the university may be subject to.

But that was not the original point I was making anyway. I was just observing that I think I see where Toledo's priorities are right now.

Maybe you should just keep quiet on things you don't know about. It is pretty standard procedure for the FBI to have total control of investigations they are doing and to tell others not to investigate anything until they have given the OK.

Explore options with an attorney? Oh I'm sure UT has done that. Interview players and launch their own internal investigation? It would be very wise to listen to the FBI and wait.


Finally, I find it funny that you are playing "Administration Man" and talk about where you think Toledo's priorities are. Running a University and an Athletic Department is not something you can do without multi-tasking. There are a lot of priorities right now, just like at any time. And one of the smartest things you can do is to continue to move on with things you were doing before. Not doing so is just going to hurt the University in the long run. Why should UT not continue their capital campaign and continue to look at upgrading facilities and so forth?

RWT, you can't really be as stupid as you sound when you post about Toledo, can you?

[Redwingtom]

Okay, so let me get this straight. The University of Toledo could end up being criminally liable for something a paid employee did but they can't try and find out any facts in order to prepare a swift and adequate defense until the FBI tells them to?

Sounds like your AD should be fired now if this is the approach they are taking.

I am no lawyer or constitutional expert, but I can't imagine the FBI has the authority to tell UT that their lawyers can't investigate to determine any potential exposure to criminal liability that the university may be subject to.

But that was not the original point I was making anyway. I was just observing that I think I see where Toledo's priorities are right now.

Maybe you should just keep quiet on things you don't know about. It is pretty standard procedure for the FBI to have total control of investigations they are doing and to tell others not to investigate anything until they have given the OK.

Explore options with an attorney? Oh I'm sure UT has done that. Interview players and launch their own internal investigation? It would be very wise to listen to the FBI and wait.


Finally, I find it funny that you are playing "Administration Man" and talk about where you think Toledo's priorities are. Running a University and an Athletic Department is not something you can do without multi-tasking. There are a lot of priorities right now, just like at any time. And one of the smartest things you can do is to continue to move on with things you were doing before. Not doing so is just going to hurt the University in the long run. Why should UT not continue their capital campaign and continue to look at upgrading facilities and so forth?

RWT, you can't really be as stupid as you sound when you post about Toledo, can you?

Skippy, I clearly stated that I don't know anything about legal procedure and was only making an observation of something that on the surface does not appear to me to be constitutional.

BTW - Who's favored in your spring game this year?

Also, did you and Ranger kiss and make up yet

[rocketfootball]

BTW - Who's favored in your spring game this year?

Also, did you and Ranger kiss and make up yet

If we did have a spring game my guess is that the walk-ons would be favored. I hear some of those guys played for the Mean Machine! Now that's what GRIT-IRON is all about.


Didn't you know that Ranger is my alter ego? I argue with myself all the time, that way I can plead insanity someday.

[Redwingtom]

I don't think the University has much to worry about as an institution so far as criminal proceedings go. Individuals speaking with folks who are targets or material witnesses in an ongoing Federal prosecution sure could face obstruction of justice charges if the Feds think they're coaching witnesses.

They're smart to steer clear until they hear otherwise.

Who knows. I guess it all depends upon how far this thing goes and who knew what and when. I am certainly not ready to clear UT of all speculation yet.

Also, do you honestly think that no one at UT has asked Tommy Boy or Stan the Man if they knew or saw anything yet?????