Defensive Line Coach to East Carolina

TG1996 · Post by **TG1996** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 10:08 pm

orangeandbrown wrote:I think they mean at West Virginia.

Ah, point taken. Forgot about that week already.

I've had a long weekend. Gregg Brandon's fault, most likely.

Globetrotter · Post by **Globetrotter** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 10:35 am

Flipper wrote:I'm not ignoring anything...I'm simply pointing out the fact that there are a number of far more logical explanantions for Hargreaves leaving than the usual sky is falling crapola you posted....

When 7 coaches leave in one offseason I think it is neccessary to investigate all possible causes.

JoeFalcon · Post by **JoeFalcon** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:01 am

Globetrotter wrote:
Flipper wrote:I'm not ignoring anything...I'm simply pointing out the fact that there are a number of far more logical explanantions for Hargreaves leaving than the usual sky is falling crapola you posted....
When 7 coaches leave in one offseason I think it is neccessary to investigate all possible causes.

It was 5 coaches, not 7, and I have no idea why better titles and/or substantial pay increases aren't good enough reasons for you. If that wasn't the case then you might be on to something, but it is.

Zach Azzanni became the assistant head coach at his alma mater, CMU. Dennis Springer became a defensive coordiantor for the first time in his career at Western Kentucky, a soon to be IA school. Coach Stud, Lovett and Durkin took jobs at BCS schools that significantly increased their respective salaries.

Why did Western Michigan's offensive coordiantor leave to become the wide receivers coach at Minnesota? Why did the assistant head coach at Northern Illinois leave to become just a regular old line coach at North Carolina? Why did Western's defensive backs coach leave for a similar position at Stanford? Why did Miami's defensive coordinator leave for an entry level job with the Oakland Raiders only to leave that 3 weeks later to fill the position coach vacancy left by Tim Beckman at Ohio State? Why did the WEC fight on Versus last night use an Octagon and the same graphics and referees as UFC fights? (Because Zuffa bought them out a few months ago, but I digress)

I will impanel a grand jury to "investigate" our coaches departures when these other schools and the motives of their coaches are subjected to the same scrutiny.

maquisard · Post by **maquisard** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:10 am

General guidelines for the Message Board Investigation (MBI):

"I think the program is in big........." and of course "... it sucks...he sucks...you suck.."

-not useful statements leading to a solid conclusion

"I spoke with Coach 'XXXXX' who stated...." or "He stated in the article that..."

-a little closer to supported opinions or useful information

Globetrotter · Post by **Globetrotter** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:13 am

JoeFalcon wrote:
Globetrotter wrote:
Flipper wrote:I'm not ignoring anything...I'm simply pointing out the fact that there are a number of far more logical explanantions for Hargreaves leaving than the usual sky is falling crapola you posted....
When 7 coaches leave in one offseason I think it is neccessary to investigate all possible causes.
It was 5 coaches, not 7, and I have no idea why better titles and/or substantial pay increases aren't good enough reasons for you. If that wasn't the case then you might be on to something, but it is.

Zach Azzanni became the assistant head coach at his alma mater, CMU. Dennis Springer became a defensive coordiantor for the first time in his career at Western Kentucky, a soon to be IA school. Coach Stud, Lovett and Durkin took jobs at BCS schools that significantly increased their respective salaries.

Why did Western Michigan's offensive coordiantor leave to become the wide receivers coach at Minnesota? Why did the assistant head coach at Northern Illinois leave to become just a regular old line coach at North Carolina? Why did Western's defensive backs coach leave for a similar position at Stanford? Why did Miami's defensive coordinator leave for an entry level job with the Oakland Raiders only to leave that 3 weeks later to fill the position coach vacancy left by Tim Beckman at Ohio State? Why did the WEC fight on Versus last night use an Octagon and the same graphics and referees as UFC fights? (Because Zuffa bought them out a few months ago, but I digress)

I will impanel a grand jury to "investigate" our coaches departures when these other schools and the motives of their coaches are subjected to the same scrutiny.

So many at the same time, must be the tutelege they received under Brandon that has these teams drooling over them.

Flipper · Post by **Flipper** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:18 am

NIU had a lot of coaches leave....Western Michigan had a number of coaches leave...a year or two ago Akron had a number of coaches leave...was that Brandon's fault too?

Warthog · Post by **Warthog** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:48 am

My two cents...

Most people don't like to change jobs, especially when it entails moving. Therefore, you hope you have chosen a decent employer where there is an opportunity to advance. You always entertain other opportunities, but unless it is a crazy amount of money, it is hard to change jobs and move.

So, yes, a lot of these coaches that left are getting more money. But was it really enough that would make you say "Where do I sign" when they make the offer? I don't know about that. Which makes me think that there may have been other motivation.

That is, once you see that your employer is headed in the wrong direction, then it becomes easier to leave. It may have reached the point where everyone realized there would be no "riding Gregg Brandon's coattails" to bigger and better things. It is a possibility, I think. I honestly don't think you can chalk up this many changes to everyone getting a promotion to go somewhere else. They could have had some other motivation as well.

Jacobs4Heisman · Post by **Jacobs4Heisman** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 12:24 pm

I have no clue why these guys left, but I'm sure it was for a multitude of reasons.

Here's all I know. If you're happy with your current position, you most likely aren't turning in your resume for other positions in other parts of the country. I also find it hard to believe that all these other schools are beating down the door of one of the worst teams in the MAC last season looking for coaches.

Maybe all the coaches we lost are just very good coaching talents, and other schools could recognize that, or heard things through the grapevine to that effect. If that's the case, that's fantastic for them. But, I would also have to ask, how did a team coached by all these great, promotion-worthy coaches, perform so poorly last year?

If your conclusions bases on seeing all these coaches leave, is that they were good coaches that just got promoted, then the poor performance last year must be attributed to the coaches that are still here, or poor talent due to sub-par recruiting, which would also be the coaches' fault.

It doesn't matter much at this point anyway. These guys are all gone, for whatever reason. Time to look to next season. It's gotta be better than last.

JoeFalcon · Post by **JoeFalcon** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 12:47 pm

One big thing to keep in mind is that the coaching profession is nomadic by nature, especially at the D-IA level. It's not just any other job. Instablity is the expectation going in with their wives and families.

I also think that all of those men were judged on the body of their work over their careers--including previous highly successful years at BG--rather than last year alone.

PGY Tiercel · Post by **PGY Tiercel** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 12:58 pm

Warthog wrote:My two cents...

Most people don't like to change jobs, especially when it entails moving. Therefore, you hope you have chosen a decent employer where there is an opportunity to advance. You always entertain other opportunities, but unless it is a crazy amount of money, it is hard to change jobs and move.

So, yes, a lot of these coaches that left are getting more money. But was it really enough that would make you say "Where do I sign" when they make the offer? I don't know about that. Which makes me think that there may have been other motivation.

.

That statement seems off base, especially when it comes to coaches. By the time someone makes it to HC, or even OC/DC their resumes almost always have 4 or 5 schools listed. On top of that most people bitch about taking the "easy way" and hiring from within anyways, so moving up seems to be best done by actually moving to another school.

On another note, most people that I have talked to, in several different of fields, say that if you really want to move "up" you're going to change jobs a lot. Sure you can move up somewhat, but rarely is anyone going to hire a CEO or VP from within. So if thats your goal, you're moving around.

Jacobs4Heisman · Post by **Jacobs4Heisman** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 12:59 pm

JoeFalcon wrote:One big thing to keep in mind is that the coaching profession is nomadic by nature, especially at the D-IA level. It's not just any other job. Instablity is the expectation going in with their wives and families.

I also think that all of those men were judged on the body of their work over their careers--including previous highly successful years at BG--rather than last year alone.

That's a good point. As much as I dislike Brandon as a coach, I'm nowhere near thinking that all these guys left with Brandon and the direction of this program as the main reason.

However, I also think it's kind of silly that some people don't seem to think it could possibly play any part in their decisions.

What saddens me more than losing all these coaches, is that the program has sunk to the point where we're even having this discussion.

Warthog · Post by **Warthog** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 1:10 pm

PGY Tiercel wrote:That statement seems off base, especially when it comes to coaches. By the time someone makes it to HC, or even OC/DC their resumes almost always have 4 or 5 schools listed. On top of that most people bitch about taking the "easy way" and hiring from within anyways, so moving up seems to be best done by actually moving to another school.

I won't disagree with most of that. But I would add that I think most people would prefer to move up without going somewhere different. So it seems to me there must be some sort of tipping point where you come to the rationalization of when it is time to move on versus sticking it out where you are.

PGY Tiercel wrote:On another note, most people that I have talked to, in several different of fields, say that if you really want to move "up" you're going to change jobs a lot. Sure you can move up somewhat, but rarely is anyone going to hire a CEO or VP from within. So if thats your goal, you're moving around.

I won't completely disagree with that either, but will add that it depends where you work. If you are in a small company, there is limited opportunites to advance, so you have to change employers. But if you work for a large multi-national corporation, that isn't necessary. Personally, I have had three different "careers" where I work (accounting, credit, logistics) and held eight different jobs, all without ever leaving beautiful Findlay, OH.

Warthog · Post by **Warthog** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 1:12 pm

Jacobs4Heisman wrote:
JoeFalcon wrote:One big thing to keep in mind is that the coaching profession is nomadic by nature, especially at the D-IA level. It's not just any other job. Instablity is the expectation going in with their wives and families.

I also think that all of those men were judged on the body of their work over their careers--including previous highly successful years at BG--rather than last year alone.
That's a good point. As much as I dislike Brandon as a coach, I'm nowhere near thinking that all these guys left with Brandon and the direction of this program as the main reason.

However, I also think it's kind of silly that some people don't seem to think it could possibly play any part in their decisions.

I'm right there with J4H. I am hopeful that Brandon and the state of the program were not the reason these guys left, but I also think it is entirely possible that it was one of the reasons these guys were looking as well.

Flipper · Post by **Flipper** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 1:44 pm

Don't dismiss the possibility that some of these guys weren't actively seeking employment but were instead contacted by other coaches they've networked with in the past. When coach Lovett came here I'm pretty sure the initial contact about the DC job came rom a call by Stud...they'd worked together somewhere in the past.

I suspect Hargreaves falls into that category simply because the timing of it is so damn wierd

Globetrotter · Post by **Globetrotter** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 1:54 pm

Flipper wrote:Don't dismiss the possibility that some of these guys weren't actively seeking employment but were instead contacted by other coaches they've networked with in the past. When coach Lovett came here I'm pretty sure the initial contact about the DC job came rom a call by Stud...they'd worked together somewhere in the past.

I suspect Hargreaves falls into that category simply because the timing of it is so damn wierd

We apparently can't dismiss any opinion flipper has but he can do so to ours. Great to know. I will act accordingly in the future.