2007-08 Schedule Question

[hammb]

There is a very good model for building a top notch Mid Major basketball conference. Do things the way the MVC has done them and you'll be fine. They don't allow scheduling any non-D1 opponents, and if they do they fine their members. We need to follow that model as an individual institution and also pull for the adoption of this philosophy as a conference. Bring the entire conference RPI up and it won't kill you to lose one game in-conference as it currently does.

If you want respect, and you want at large bids you flat out don't schedule those teams. Not once a year, not twice a year, not once every other year. You don't schedule them period. You make a concerted effort to play anyone, anywhere, anytime. None of the BS about requiring to get a return date, or trying a 2-for-1 with a larger program. Not worth your effort.

Go out & play the games. Win some of those contests on the road, and you'll gain national respect. Then, and only then, will you hope to land some decent home matchups.

Personally as a BG fan, I'd much rather listen to us playing a major conference quality basketball team on the radio, than watch us play Findlay live. Hell, if they want I'll even mail them the $10 I would've spent on a ticket for that Findlay game so I can listen to a game against a real team on the radio.

If the MAC is going to continue playing these horrendous schedules (we're not the only institution doing so) then I don't want to hear whining when we don't get at large bids. There is a reason the NCAA has snubbed us every time, and it's not because they have it in for the MAC. They've shown a willingness to bring in worthy at large mid majors. The problem is that we, as a conference, are not making a concerted effort to build proper tournament resumés. The 2002 BG team was the last time I thought the MAC had a second team worthy of a bid, but even then their RPI was only borderline...not nearly high enough to be a lock.

The model for building a powerful mid major is out there. If we don't wish to follow it, then I don't want to hear the whining. I know we cannot put the same dollars into hoops as the MVC does (they don't play football), but there is no reason that we cannot at least follow their scheduling model. Play a schedule above your heads and then when you do get that special team you'll win some games and a have a legit opportunity to make it to the dance. Playing Findlay & Urbana doesn't cut it.

[JoeFalcon]

Just as a point of reference, here are some of the illustrious non-conference matchups that Missouri Valley teams played last year:

Simpson (D-III)
Lincoln (D-III)
Lewis (D-II)
Oakland City College (D-II)
Rockhurst College (D-II)
Southern Illinois-Edwardsville (D-II)
Waterburg (D-III)

Basically, the world isn't going to end if we schedule a game with Findlay.

Investing money into facilities and coaching salaries is the way to go, but hammb already highlighted the MVC's advantage in that regard being a basketball-only league. BG is one of 13 schools to have Division IA football and Division I basketball and hockey. It has its advantages and disadvantages.

[ZiggyZoomba]

I'm pretty sure we have Temple at home this year as part of a double-header with the women playing St. Bonnaventure and I think we have U of M in Ann Arbor....

[Flipper]

Hey...Ann Arbor is closer to my house than BG!! UM draws about as well as we do so tickets should be an easy get.

[hammb]

Just as a point of reference, here are some of the illustrious non-conference matchups that Missouri Valley teams played last year:

Simpson (D-III)
Lincoln (D-III)
Lewis (D-II)
Oakland City College (D-II)
Rockhurst College (D-II)
Southern Illinois-Edwardsville (D-II)
Waterburg (D-III)

Basically, the world isn't going to end if we schedule a game with Findlay.

Investing money into facilities and coaching salaries is the way to go, but hammb already highlighted the MVC's advantage in that regard being a basketball-only league. BG is one of 13 schools to have Division IA football and Division I basketball and hockey. It has its advantages and disadvantages.

But it is my understanding that the MVC fines their members for playing these games. The result is that they happen less often, the entire conference plays tougher OOC scheds, and the conference RPI goes up. That helps immensely on Selection Sunday.

I know we'll never get rid of the lower division games entirely, but I don't like them for multiple reasons. They really aren't competitive matchups; they aren't fun to watch, nor do they really help your team learn much. On top of that they hurt your tourney resume (assuming we again have a team good enough to worry about that).

I'd just like to see us move away from playing those sorts of games and bring back games against the likes of Detroit or Oakland. Perfectly doable mid-major matchups that will still get us home games. I'd definitely like a good deal of matchups against big boys as well, even if their 1 & done deals.

Respect is earned and playing multiple lower division teams each year is no way to earn it. Unfortunately us alone isn't going to help in that matter. Even if we don't schedule any of those teams if the rest of the MAC continues to do so the entire conference RPI will drive down all of it's members' RPIs with it. That pretty much forces you to nearly run the table on conference play (which we all know is nearly impossible in the MAC) if you want a hope at an at large bid.

[rangermarkb]

A couple of things in this argument I would like to help with. First playing non D1 games neither helps or hurts your RPI because those games are not computed in. As far as using the Mo Valley as a reference is perfect but the fact of the matter is the is not committed to basketball. Their model includes 60 home game & they are giving their teams anywhere from 120,000 - 200,000 to buy home games which buy wins. Last year was the first BG did'nt have to play a game to make 40,000 and was given 30,000. Every MAC school gives the league 250,000 to get extra Bowl games. The commitment is to football which is why Horizon and Sun Belt basketball are better than MAC right now. Until the commish, the president, & AD's make a commitment to basketball the coach's will continue to do this.

[Metz]

I'm pretty sure we have Temple at home this year as part of a double-header with the women playing St. Bonnaventure

Tis correct! I was sarcastically getting at that earlier

[FalconTurf]

If you want people to take the program seriously then schedule known D1 mid-majors and above on the home schedule even if it hurts the record a little. I would like to see regional D1 rivalries develop with the likes of one or more of the following:
Oakland, Cleveland St., Wright St., Youngstown St., Xavier, Butler, Indiana St., Valpo or someone else in the OH-MI-IN tri-state area.

It would be nice to know for a fact that we have 1 or 2 or more nonconference games to look forward to every year like other school do (Miami for example with UC in football and Xavier in basketball - correct me if I'm wrong).

I like a few surprises and new faces but with as many non-conference games as we have it would be nice to have a traditional rival. And I don't mean with a DII or DIII school because this, IMO, hurts our reputation more than it helps it in the region resulting in a smaller fan base.

This was a well-reasoned, well-written post, and I disagree with it completely.

1. History has proven that fans show up when the team wins--period. That more than any other factor is the key.

2. Rivalries don't just develop out of thin air. There needs to be a history or something at stake that gets people's blood boiling. I highly, highly doubt a manufactured rivalry with a Horizon or Mid-Continent basketball school will inspire the Falcon Nation the way our genuine rival--Toledo--does. Miami, the one school you mentioned, doesn't really have comprable rival in within the MAC itself. (Miami/OU is mild compared with other MAC fueds, more like Abercrombie and Fitch vs. Hollister pillow fight)

3. For all the caterwauling about last year's non-conference schedule, it still included a home game with South Alabama, who was coming off an NCAA Tournament bid and was (and still is) one of the hottest mid-majors in the country. If people don't already "take the program seriously" by now and recognize that this is Division I basketball played at an extremely high level, it's never going to get through to them. Also, we have played both Oakland (at home) and Wright State in the past two years.

4. Continuing to dwell and harp on the lone D-III contest we play is tiresome. It's a single game, and as cowboyjoe pointed out, it's really no different than the exhaulted Buckeyes scheduling Coppin State and Loyola of Chicago.

5. The nitpicking over issues such as this seems to be more a product of frustration over the downturn the program has taken the last 5 years than a "What if we're on the bubble?" question. If the committee wants to screw us, they'll screw us. In 2002, we defeated Evansville, Indiana State, Marist, Detroit and Michigan (at home) non-conference, among others. That's two Valley teams, two upper-echelon regional mid-majors and a BCS team at home. You can't and won't get any better than that. I won't even go into the resumes of recent screw-job victims like Hofstra to prove that relying on the committee to be logical and consistent is a risky proposition.

The idea of a local rival is that their fanbase will travel with them.

You must schedule them for years to make that rivalry grow but you must play them a first, second, third,........and many more times. If you never start playing these guys year in and year out then of course it will never build into a rivalry.

When someone is in your region they tend to have folks who go to school or graduate from the school that is related in some way to your school.

We can play a great schedule of teams from Alabama, Georgia, Florida, Texas, Arkansas and the likes where 25 of our fans will follow the team and 25 of their fans will come to BG on the return. This does nothing to generate interest unless these teams are nationally recognized because very few BG people know someone at South Alabama. How will this generate into anything that lights a fire in the belly of the fans?

The financial end of these trips down south and around the country also does not make sense when comparable programs are within the region a bus trip away rather than a flight.

And finally we seem to see the rivals/traditional schools on our schedule as the local DII and DIII schools. This is counter productive for the reputation of your program. This is the sole reason for my post to include DI regional teams that enhance the schedule rather than small colleges that are lose/lose situation when you could possibly get beat by them or just not beat them by enough to satisfy the fans.

[Flipper]

One thing I'd like to see us do leverage the big $$ (relatively) we're paying to 1AA schools like SEMO and EKU to travel up here to get whipped in football to include some home and home hoop games. Western Kentucky is coming up here this fall...why not make a basketball series a part of the deal?

[FalconTurf]

One thing I'd like to see us do leverage the big $$ (relatively) we're paying to 1AA schools like SEMO and EKU to travel up here to get whipped in football to include some home and home hoop games. Western Kentucky is coming up here this fall...why not make a basketball series a part of the deal?

This is a great idea. Very similar to the way the MAC is using the Temple football inconvience.

[JoeFalcon]

The idea of a local rival is that their fanbase will travel with them.
You must schedule them for years to make that rivalry grow but you must play them a first, second, third,........and many more times. If you never start playing these guys year in and year out then of course it will never build into a rivalry.
When someone is in your region they tend to have folks who go to school or graduate from the school that is related in some way to your school.

We can play a great schedule of teams from Alabama, Georgia, Florida, Texas, Arkansas and the likes where 25 of our fans will follow the team and 25 of their fans will come to BG on the return. This does nothing to generate interest unless these teams are nationally recognized because very few BG people know someone at South Alabama. How will this generate into anything that lights a fire in the belly of the fans?

The financial end of these trips down south and around the country also does not make sense when comparable programs are within the region a bus trip away rather than a flight.

And finally we seem to see the rivals/traditional schools on our schedule as the local DII and DIII schools. This is counter productive for the reputation of your program. This is the sole reason for my post to include DI regional teams that enhance the schedule rather than small colleges that are lose/lose situation when you could possibly get beat by them or just not beat them by enough to satisfy the fans.

I still don’t see the desire or the need to artificially develop another Toledo-esque rival.

Your point about South Alabama lacking name recognition among the average fan is well taken, but the regional alternatives--while cheaper--aren’t exactly an upgrade in the pizzaz department. Also, as I pointed out, we have already played both Oakland and Wright State in the past two years. I’d love to get big-name BCS teams to come to Anderson Arena. I’d also love to win the lottery.

Finally, I think I’ve made my point about the D-III games. It’s a once a season deal done by a million other teams besides us and is not going to make or break a non-conference schedule either way.

(Also, Flipper’s idea of using football as a bargaining chip for leverage is excellent and definitely worth a try.)

[orangeandbrown]

But it is my understanding that the MVC fines their members for playing these games. The result is that they happen less often, the entire conference plays tougher OOC scheds, and the conference RPI goes up. That helps immensely on Selection Sunday.

There was an article in the Kalamazoo Gazette last year that spelled this out, and was what it said. The MVC is willing to buy games to build up a strong home schedule...and I think that is the key. Yes, you have to go on the road and win, but you also have to have a strong home schedule because those are games you are most likely to win.

[FalconTurf]

The idea of a local rival is that their fanbase will travel with them.
You must schedule them for years to make that rivalry grow but you must play them a first, second, third,........and many more times. If you never start playing these guys year in and year out then of course it will never build into a rivalry.
When someone is in your region they tend to have folks who go to school or graduate from the school that is related in some way to your school.

We can play a great schedule of teams from Alabama, Georgia, Florida, Texas, Arkansas and the likes where 25 of our fans will follow the team and 25 of their fans will come to BG on the return. This does nothing to generate interest unless these teams are nationally recognized because very few BG people know someone at South Alabama. How will this generate into anything that lights a fire in the belly of the fans?

The financial end of these trips down south and around the country also does not make sense when comparable programs are within the region a bus trip away rather than a flight.

And finally we seem to see the rivals/traditional schools on our schedule as the local DII and DIII schools. This is counter productive for the reputation of your program. This is the sole reason for my post to include DI regional teams that enhance the schedule rather than small colleges that are lose/lose situation when you could possibly get beat by them or just not beat them by enough to satisfy the fans.

I still don’t see the desire or the need to artificially develop another Toledo-esque rival.

Your point about South Alabama lacking name recognition among the average fan is well taken, but the regional alternatives--while cheaper--aren’t exactly an upgrade in the pizzaz department. Also, as I pointed out, we have already played both Oakland and Wright State in the past two years. I’d love to get big-name BCS teams to come to Anderson Arena. I’d also love to win the lottery.

Finally, I think I’ve made my point about the D-III games. It’s a once a season deal done by a million other teams besides us and is not going to make or break a non-conference schedule either way.

(Also, Flipper’s idea of using football as a bargaining chip for leverage is excellent and definitely worth a try.)

Originally I believe I said 1 or 2 small schools is the limit with one being an exhibition/scrimmage. I've been around BG long enough to know that 2 or more will sometimes make the schedule. I don't mean to rip the schedule, just improve it.

I don't know where you are going with this but the idea I have is to play people from the region so that you get more regional interest. Think about the interest we have following the progress of other programs we have played such as Virginia Tech a couple of years ago. If we play someone every year it will develope a relationship and some meaning.

There is nobody out there that could possibly consider replacing Toledo. That is why there is so much chatter in BG every time we switch divisions or Toledo is rumbling some insane league affiliation change. We want that rivilary and I doubt we could ever replace someone that is 20 miles away and has the history we have with them including stealing the namesake for AA away from them.