New arena???

[FalconTurf]

6,000 is not puny and it is not saying we're not commited to basketball. Go ask the Fordhams, St. Joes, etc. of the world if they're commited to basketball. Those schools have better tradition than here, both pride themselves on thier hoops and both of thier respective arena's seat under 5,000. How many mid-majors draw 10,000 a game? A few in the A-10 a few out West and a few MVC.

I know us fans want the impossible but we'll never get it. Where are 10,000 people going to come from? If BG can turn it around and students get excited you get maybe 3,000 students, 3,000 season ticket holders and 500-1000 walk up sales if there was a big game. Thats 7,000 for a big game. All those numbers would be absolutley mind boggling by the way considering the program right now.

You will never get huge crowds unless your playing a big name team at home and when I say big name I mean a Xavier or Dayton. Teams that would consider 2 for 1 deals with non-rival MAC schools that would travel well and bring plenty of their own fans. Rarely will you see big crowds for MAC games because there aren't very many people that want to come see BG play the Western or Eastern Michigans of the world.

10,000 just seems way to big for me.

Exactly. The names you mention St. Joe's, Fordaham and add Gonzaga do not have arenas this big and have great programs that are respected. If we can hit the level of Gonzaga and St. Joes in recent years I would be thrilled.

[hammb]

you get respect by what you do on the court, not the size of your arena. As mentioned there are some respected mid major programs that have arenas in the 5-6k seat range.

My problem with building a 10k seat arena is I don't think you'll consistently fill it even if the program DOES gain respect. Ohio State only averaged 17,500 or so as a national title contender last year...there are years where they only average 15,000 or so. That's a nationally prominent Big 10 team, and the largest undergrad student population in the country. Michigan only averaged 12,000 in attendance last year.

I'm sorry, I think it's just a total pipe dream to think a MAC team would ever have a need for a 10,000 seat arena. Unless your future plans hope for us to join the Big 10 or some other major conference a 10,000 seat arena just doesn't make sense. Your future growth is nothing more than wishful thinking and in the meantime the gameday experience suffers for it. I just don't see where it makes any sense to build that large of an arena.

[transfer2BGSU]

Beyond AA, can you name one structure that is actually a good candidate for this? I can't think of one single facility that has added seats, but I can name a few that have been replaced b/c of size.

Look right down Ridge St. across Mercer Rd. on our very own campus. You will see a facility that indeed added seats back in the 80's.

[BleedOrange]

Hold it hammb, I'm not saying we'll consistently FILL a 10K arena. You seem to be assuming that we should build a capacity equal to our optimistic estimated AVERAGE attendance.

If I'm spending 10s of millions on a 50 year building, I'm planning for success, not mediocrity. With that, if we can sustain a winning program and gain respect over a number of years, I'd hope for hope for an average attendance between 6-7K. Yes, that's optimistic, but if I'm precluding optimistic outcomes in facilities planning, then I'm a loser.

With a 10K gym and sustained success, we'll be in a better position to attract higher profile visitors. In this optimistic scenario, a school like Michigan could bring several thousands, and many more of our casuals show up. So, perhaps we could approach 9 or 10K for a game every once in the while.

Mr. 137, BG is not foreordained to a permanent backseat to the Daytons and Xaviers for all eternity. I would hate for that to be the case. However, you make a very good but depressing point that even if we do excel, the MAC as a whole is a much larger barge. The idea of an overall, regional improvement of the MAC's perception is harder to imagine.

Again, my hope for a new facility is to support a much better, more popular program over the next 40 years compared to what we've had for the last 40 years. Call me a dreamer. That's OK. I've been called worse.

[Flipper]

you get respect by what you do on the court, not the size of your arena.

Damn right..."size doesn't matter" has been a favorite arguement of mine for quite some time now....

[Schadenfreude]

Beyond AA, can you name one structure that is actually a good candidate for this? I can't think of one single facility that has added seats, but I can name a few that have been replaced b/c of size.

Look right down Ridge St. across Mercer Rd. on our very own campus. You will see a facility that indeed added seats back in the 80's.

Yep. And, at the time, it was obvious the Ice Arena needed them.

When it comes to basketball, that's not so obvious to me.

[hammb]

Hold it hammb, I'm not saying we'll consistently FILL a 10K arena. You seem to be assuming that we should build a capacity equal to our optimistic estimated AVERAGE attendance.

I'm not saying that you'd have to consistently fill it to justify it, but you better be consistently over 6-7k people if you're going to build a 10k seat arena over a 7k seat one.

I just don't understand where you think these people are going to come from to need a big arena. I honestly wouldn't have a problem with a 5k seat arena...we just don't have any reason to justify that large of a size. We don't average 25k people when we have a top 25 football team that only plays 5 home games. Basketball is but a fraction of the draw of football.

I'm sorry, I just don't see any evidence to suggest a capacity of > 7,000 people would EVER be a necessity, let alone consistently enough to justify building a larger structure.

[Falcon137]

Mr. 137, BG is not foreordained to a permanent backseat to the Daytons and Xaviers for all eternity. I would hate for that to be the case. However, you make a very good but depressing point that even if we do excel, the MAC as a whole is a much larger barge. The idea of an overall, regional improvement of the MAC's perception is harder to imagine.

Again, my hope for a new facility is to support a much better, more popular program over the next 40 years compared to what we've had for the last 40 years. Call me a dreamer. That's OK. I've been called worse.

I'm not saying BG should take a backseat to any program. What I am saying is that there are far to many what-ifs attatched to a 10,000 seat arena. I can't see the University justifying this type of arena for a game every once in awhile.

What I'm saying is for a team like BG in a football dominated conference like the MAC wouldn't it be so much better to have a packed house rather than a a half or 3/4 full arena. I'll go back to the St. Joes or Gonzaga argument. Gonzaga has a capicity of 6,000 St. Joes 3,200. In a city like Philadelphia St. Joes would never be able to sell out a 10,000 seat arena and they knew this. So they kept "Hawk Hill" and renovated it making it a great home court advantage. If they were to say build a 10,000 seat arena there would be no where near the same advantage. Gonzaga is the same way they wouldn't be able to sell out a 10,000 seat arena each and every game so they elected for a smaller arena to have a greater home court advantage.

I guess what I'm getting at is by building a huge arena you wont be able to fill until you get to the point where you could, are you setting the program back? Bringing a recruit to a half full 10,000 seat arena that seems dull and unenergized is not the same as taking one to a place that is filled to capacity with life and energy. Someone made the point about Eastern Michigan, if you were a recruit and went to a game there compared to a packed Anderson where would you rather go? BG and Eastern could have the same 3,600 people at the game, but which leaves the recruit saying wow?

[bobio]

It makes absolutely no sense to build anything over 7,000 seats. That is actually about 2000 too many. we would never, ever fill 10k seats. Even Oprah in BG, where all of your wives, sisters and girlfriends would attend, would not attract 10k. It would completely ruin the atmosphere of all games and waste big bucks. If you all must have a new arena, a max of 5,000 would fit the bill.

[It's the Journey...]

I still say 6500 seats is what we need. That should give us about 5000 for concerts or events like that. That is where the University needs to concentrate to make this new facility successful. I think we are looking at this as just a basketball arena and that is a very short sighted thing to do. We need to cave a basketball arena, and a convocation center, and a concert hall, and a convention facility, and more all wrapped into one. If we build it only as a basketball facility then we will have failed. Basketball games should only be a fraction of what goes on in the building. The more events it holds, the more money it makes, and the more money the University has for other projects. So, 6500 seats, with adequate parking near by, and very flexible. That is the basic framework I think we need to stick to.

[Dayons_Den]

I still say 6500 seats is what we need. That should give us about 5000 for concerts or events like that. That is where the University needs to concentrate to make this new facility successful. I think we are looking at this as just a basketball arena and that is a very short sighted thing to do. We need to cave a basketball arena, and a convocation center, and a concert hall, and a convention facility, and more all wrapped into one. If we build it only as a basketball facility then we will have failed. Basketball games should only be a fraction of what goes on in the building. The more events it holds, the more money it makes, and the more money the University has for other projects. So, 6500 seats, with adequate parking near by, and very flexible. That is the basic framework I think we need to stick to.

As far as capacity for basketball and concerts- generally arena capacities increase for concerts, not decrease as you have proposed. This is because of floor seating over top of where the court/playing surface is.

So if we build a 5,000 seat basketball arena in theory it could hold 5,500-7,000 for concerts depending on stage set up etc.

[It's the Journey...]

Is that true of arena with a full bowl seating design? All of the seating layouts I have seen show all seating behind the stage area unavailable for seating which would decrease the overall seating capacity of the facility. I have never been to a concert where you can sit and watch the backs of the artist that is performing.

[Flipper]

In a smaller facility, you gain more than you lose. The Toledo Sports arena usually sat more for concerts than hockey (unless they used a really big ass stage...did Jennifer Lopez ever play the SPorts Arena?)

[eRichFalcon]

What about having a convo at the south end zone with a permanent seating structure constructed on the north (stadium) side (think band seating on Sebo, but on a larger scale?)

Personally, I think this would be SWEEEET, but what do I know?

I don't think it should be located right off the end zone.

It should be at least far enough away to leave room for more permanent seating there, should the need arise.

Or, keeping an arena far enough away leaves room for temporary seating in case we want it for big games.

[HoopsFan]

You bitch that 6000 is too small and 10,000 is too big. Hmmm...
What size is EMU's convo? IIRC 8100 or so. HALF WAY IN BETWEEN.

Cry all you want, but that arena, like the one in Cleveland by the same architect or similar, is a nice facility.

PUT IT NEXT TO A PARKING LOT.

Put it in Rossford if you have to, but get it done.

HoopsFan