How will history remember Coach Brandon?

[Warthog]

Does anyone feel that J.D. Brookhart is a "great" coach?

Not I.

Is he better than Brandon?

Hmm, don't think so.

[hammb]

Does anyone feel that J.D. Brookhart is a "great" coach?

Not I.

Is he better than Brandon?

Hmm, don't think so.

I agree on both accounts.


I don't think winning a championship automatically makes somebody a great coach.

I do think, however, that the inability to win a championship does prevent somebody from being considered a great coach.

[Bleeding Orange]

The ideal situation for any school is finding someone like (gulp) Amstutz, who's driven by other factors besides money.

Aside from Stud, every time I think about this, my mind wanders to Josh Harris.

Wow. I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who has been thinking about this. Sure, it would be a way's off at this point, but since the first time I met Josh I thought he would make a great coach.

[1987alum]

Does anyone feel that J.D. Brookhart is a "great" coach?

Not I.

Is he better than Brandon?

Hmm, don't think so.

I agree on both accounts.


I don't think winning a championship automatically makes somebody a great coach.

I do think, however, that the inability to win a championship does prevent somebody from being considered a great coach.

hammb:

Adding that to my original post ... consider this hypothetical - Brandon strings together three more winning seasons (08, 09, 10), including two MAC titles, then takes off for greener ($) pastures. Does that elevate him to "elite" status in the BG history books? In that scenario, he would have coached BG to at least five bowl games and finished, in all likelihood, the second- or third-most wins in school history.

Take a step back ... what if he produces a dream season in 08 (14-0 including MACC game win, BCS bowl victory), then bolts?

BO, J4H: In regard to Josh Harris ... yes, I agree that he always appeared to be a coach-in-waiting, but I must say I'd like to see someone at least have some coaching experience before I gave him a job at the D-I level.

[hammb]

Does anyone feel that J.D. Brookhart is a "great" coach?

Not I.

Is he better than Brandon?

Hmm, don't think so.

I agree on both accounts.


I don't think winning a championship automatically makes somebody a great coach.

I do think, however, that the inability to win a championship does prevent somebody from being considered a great coach.

hammb:

Adding that to my original post ... consider this hypothetical - Brandon strings together three more winning seasons (08, 09, 10), including two MAC titles, then takes off for greener ($) pastures. Does that elevate him to "elite" status in the BG history books? In that scenario, he would have coached BG to at least five bowl games and finished, in all likelihood, the second- or third-most wins in school history.

Take a step back ... what if he produces a dream season in 08 (14-0 including MACC game win, BCS bowl victory), then bolts?

BO, J4H: In regard to Josh Harris ... yes, I agree that he always appeared to be a coach-in-waiting, but I must say I'd like to see someone at least have some coaching experience before I gave him a job at the D-I level.

If coach Brandon were to put together that type of run at this point, he would no doubt go down as one of the best coaches in BG history, and I would gladly admit that my 3-4 years of hounding him were wrong. Heck, if he were produce one 14-0 season next year & bolt, I'd gladly admit I were wrong.

My contention with Gregg Brandon has always been the same. When we were winning he didn't continue to work at improving our flaws...he was always "aww shucks we're winning, so we must be doing something right." Yet, in our good years we've always had that one or two key loss that prevents us from reaching our goals (which should always be the MAC Championship first). That loss was usually a result of our weaknesses being blatantly exposed, and rather than take the blame he always seemed to have some lousy excuses...he's never seemed to exude leadership to me.

In short, my problem with Gregg Brandon as a coach has always been that I don't think he is capable of taking a team on that long run through a season and winning a championship. I'd love to be proven wrong on that, but honestly this year doesn't do much to change that opinion. I give him kudos for going beyond my expectations and taking this team back to where they were before last season, but we still have to take that next step before I'll be a believer.

[Jacobs4Heisman]

Heck, if he were produce one 14-0 season next year & bolt, I'd gladly admit I were wrong.

It wouldn't mean we were wrong. It would mean that Gregg Brandon improved on his shortcomings. He improved this year, and I hope he does next year, too.

[1987alum]

It wouldn't mean we were wrong.

Because that certainly isn't in the realm of possibilty...

j/k, guys -

[Jacobs4Heisman]

It wouldn't mean we were wrong.

Because that certainly isn't in the realm of possibilty...

j/k, guys -

Of course not - If you argue correctly, you're never wrong.

[hammb]

Heck, if he were produce one 14-0 season next year & bolt, I'd gladly admit I were wrong.

It wouldn't mean we were wrong. It would mean that Gregg Brandon improved on his shortcomings. He improved this year, and I hope he does next year, too.

Perhaps.

However, I know I've said for a couple years now that I don't think Gregg Brandon was capable of growing as a head coach. I've thought that his greatest shortcoming was leadership ability which, I said you're either born with or you're not.

Brandon got this team back near the levels it was when he was first hired. If he shows the ability to consistently lead the team to victory and put together a magical season, then I would definitely be proven wrong about his inability to grow.

[JoeFalcon]

Good points Joe. Our good friend Lou Holtz (anyone who insults Toledo on national TV has to be our friend, right?) talked specifically about this type of "situation" the other day. In fact, he talked about BG! They were discussing coaching moves/young guys moving to head jobs/ experienced guys moving to "better" jobs/etc. I think his point was trying to evaluate good situations vs bad situations. He specifically said something about Urban Meyer calling him before taking the job here at BG. Lou asked him if it was a good situation or a bad. They seemed to agree it was a bad situation, but for a young guy like Urban to move to a head coaching job, it was a good situation for him personally. I guess the point is that it all depends on the coaches perspective as to whether something is good or bad.

Right. It's a tough call to make, especially when most openings come about after stretches of losing. A supportive administration, quality facilities and a prior history of success seem like good starting points when gauging the attractivness of a job.

[Schadenfreude]

Honestly, I would very much like Christopher to come up with some consistent fund raising venture to dramatically increase our coaches' salaries, across the board. We will never reach the levels we want to, consistently, in Hockey, Hoops, or Football by paying among the lowest in the country to our coaches.

As much as I love the Sebo, and would love a new basketball or hockey facility, the money that goes into them could be used to double our coaching salaries for a long while. In the end higher quality coaching would likely help advance the programs further than a new facilities.


What we pay our coaches currently is really an embarrassment. Especially in football. I'm not a big fan of Gregg Brandon, but I also don't think he deserves to be among the bottom 3 paid coaches in D1A.

I'd rather see facilities. They make recruiting easier, they can make the fan experience better and they are more lasting. I think money on facilities, for now, is money better spent.

Realistically, no matter what we pay Brandon, a program determined to get him is gonna get him. We simply can't match what many if not most programs can pay. And if we can't -- then is elevating him to the top of the MAC, in terms of pay, really money well spent?

I approve of Coach Brandon more than you do. But that's how I feel.

That said, I totally like how we've handled Coach Miller's situation. But it is a bit of a different situation. There are probably far fewer women's basketball programs with the resources and the cheek to throw the kind of money at him that no one can say no to.

[1987alum]

So I've mulled this over a bit more ... we generally accept that BG has a rich tradition in football. But how do our coaches rate?

Doyt's greatness cannot, shall not and will not be debated.

But after that ... who was a great coach for BG?

Whittaker is #2 on the all-time wins list, but he also coached longer than any other BG coach - 14 years. He has a good W/L pct. (.565), but five coaches have a better one (six if you include Urbie's abbreviated stay). He was .500 or better in 10 of his 14 seasons.

Blackney is actually #3 on the all-time wins list, but as has been pointed out, he is probably remembered as much for his tenure's crash and burn as for his amazing successes. His BG career W/L pct is .545, just behind Whittaker and Stolz.

Speaking of ... Denny is #4 on the all-time wins list. Denny followed Nehlen with four - yes, four - straight losing seasons, then a 5-5-1 record before he brought home a MAC title in 1982 with a less-than-dominating 7-5 record. But that was the first of four straight winning seasons, bookended with the 82 and 85 conference titles. And punctuated that by putting the screws to the university, his players and BG fans with his ill-timed announcement before the Cal Bowl.

Then there's Nehlen. #5 on the all-time wins list. Only Whittaker and Doyt have more winning seasons on the BG sideline, yet his best record was 8-3 and he never did bring home the MAC title. But his career winning percentage at BG is just a shade under .600! Talk about frustrating.

Finally, there's Warren Steller. Only Whittaker coached the Falcons longer than Steller, who only had a losing record in 2 of 10 seasons and posted a .619 winning percentage.

I'm hoping TG will chime in again, perhaps Class of 61, too.

[TG1996]

As you said, Doyt's the easiest choice, for many more reasons than W/L pct. He was a Falcon through and through, except for a brief stay in Columbus and helping out Charles Perry at FIU after he stepped down as BG's AD. Even then, when his health failed him in Fla., he came back to BG. Man that dude rocked.

For the reasons you gave, I'd almost have to put Nehlen next in line, although making his name by building WVU to a national power stings a bit. From all I've read and heard, that very well could have been BG if not for AD keeping him on a short leash.

[Class of 61]

So I've mulled this over a bit more ... we generally accept that BG has a rich tradition in football. But how do our coaches rate?

Doyt's greatness cannot, shall not and will not be debated.

But after that ... who was a great coach for BG?

Whittaker is #2 on the all-time wins list, but he also coached longer than any other BG coach - 14 years. He has a good W/L pct. (.565), but five coaches have a better one (six if you include Urbie's abbreviated stay). He was .500 or better in 10 of his 14 seasons.

Blackney is actually #3 on the all-time wins list, but as has been pointed out, he is probably remembered as much for his tenure's crash and burn as for his amazing successes. His BG career W/L pct is .545, just behind Whittaker and Stolz.

Speaking of ... Denny is #4 on the all-time wins list. Denny followed Nehlen with four - yes, four - straight losing seasons, then a 5-5-1 record before he brought home a MAC title in 1982 with a less-than-dominating 7-5 record. But that was the first of four straight winning seasons, bookended with the 82 and 85 conference titles. And punctuated that by putting the screws to the university, his players and BG fans with his ill-timed announcement before the Cal Bowl.

Then there's Nehlen. #5 on the all-time wins list. Only Whittaker and Doyt have more winning seasons on the BG sideline, yet his best record was 8-3 and he never did bring home the MAC title. But his career winning percentage at BG is just a shade under .600! Talk about frustrating.

Finally, there's Warren Steller. Only Whittaker coached the Falcons longer than Steller, who only had a losing record in 2 of 10 seasons and posted a .619 winning percentage.

I'm hoping TG will chime in again, perhaps Class of 61, too.

Karl, Interesting stats you've brought to our attention so here's my "chime" in. Obviously, I am one of the few people on this board who actually SAW Doyt Perry teams (much less the old stadium). He was super organized and his players loved to play for him, which helped greatly with his success. After he became the AD, I'd have to say that Nehlen was BY FAR the best coach we've had since then. The "rap" on him, of course, is that he always won, but never won the "big one". (sounds radically like what we're hearing from the Brandon bashers). So Nehlen goes to Mich. as an Asst. coach, eventually goes to WVU and history is made. Suddenly he's a coaching wunderkind. Bottom line is that coaches come and go much faster now than I think they ever did...the Urban's and the Kelley's will bounce from job to job, earning more and more money as they go. But the bottom line is...WIN and you're loved...Lose and you're disliked (at the minimum). It'll be interesting to see, for example, what will happen to Amstutz if he has another bad to mediocre season.

[TG1996]

Den,
I tend to think the "extracurriculars" will sink Amstutz long before any string of mediocre seasons. They've often seemed to be able to put things back together after rough starts to put the spRockets in position for a title or bowl game. However, if they have too many seasons like this one with Scooter/Davis-gates floating around, it may be easier for UT to cut ties.