Why?

Falcon137 · Post by **Falcon137** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 6:46 pm

OK, with this whole thing going nowhere fast here's another ?

If/When Orr turns the men around and they again become a force in the MAC and Miller keeps churning out winning seasons will the support stay at the same level or will people who discovered the ladies because of their winning ways turn back to the men?

As someone who is fairly new to BG hoops these type of questions interest me seeing where the "pulse" of the fans is.

bgsufalcon24 · Post by **bgsufalcon24** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 6:47 pm

Falcon137 wrote:
Falconboy wrote:
Falcon137 wrote:I never intended for this to be a bash on womens hoops. I shouldn't have said a few things in my 1st post but thats it. I was simply trying to understand why this university in particular values womens bball more so than mens. I know programs like UCONN and Tennessee also hold women bball in a high spot but they are consistently winning national championships.

I stand by my post about shooting #'s. In no way by me saying that women are not better shooters than men does not belittle womens bball.

I have gone to BG women's games, I have been to Dayton women's games, as well as women's NCAA Elite 8 games. I don't find the brand of bball as exciting but it's basketball and seeing a player like a Candice Parker is a treat. But I simply wanted to know why people here mainly students seem to favor womens bball over the mens.

I do not hate women's bball.
Why do you get the "feeling" the the students favor the women over the men?? Maybe cuz for right now BG women's BB is kicking but and the men not so much. You've got to understand something. BG men's hoops haven't done much since Keith Mcleods Sr. year. The BG women have been really good for 3+ years now with 3 Mac titles and 3 NCAA appearances with the latest having the team advancing the to Sweet Sixteen. So get some perspective bro.

I could argue that the support for BG women's BB could be better than it is. But its not hard to figure out why we barely cracked 2k crowds for BG men hoops in like 3 years.
Some perspective would be to look at other programs around the country. At almost any school in the country you will see twice the amount of people at a mens game than a womens game, BG is an exception to the rule. Kicking butt or not it is strange for a women's athletic team to out draw the men. You do realize they play mens and womens basketball in other schools around the country, and why it is odd no matter the level of success for women to outdraw men. Except in those special circumstances like Tennessee in the 90's where they were head and shoulders above everyone else in womens basketball and the men were not very good. Get the perspective, bro?

I don't know why you think its so weird for a women's team to be outdrawing a men's team at a DI university given the circumstances Falconboy laid out earlier. Men's basketball is down in the dumps, they have been even since I've been here at least (2005) and perhaps earlier. Why would anybody want to waste their time on a team that will most likely lose most of their games? I hate to put it like that, but expectations are so low right now that winning games such as Saturday's 52-49 win over Ohio come as huge surprises anymore. A majority of the students down in Mobile this weekend agreed that was a bigger upset than hockey's 4-2 win over #1 Miami the previous night. Does THAT provide any perspective for you?

Now as for the women, they've only lost two games at home since I've been here, vs Ohio in 2007 and vs Notre Dame last month. One of those losses was by 3 and the other was in OT. The women play with energy, skill, determination, and class. They are in a way a symbolic representation of what good can come out of BGSU when a group of student-athletes (or any group of students in any field) come together and perform well as a unit. And so fans have rallied around the team in a big way. By contrast, the men's team has not only lost tons of games, but they have been strewn with many malcontents, class-flunkers, and troublemakers. THAT, you NEVER see with the women, and its one of the big reasons why men's basketball at BG is a turn-off.

Bottom line, the men haven't offered much of anything except problems off the court and losses on it in recent years, while the women have excelled greater than any athletic team at BG since football in the early 2000s, or maybe hockey in the 80s. They deserve to have more fans following them, athleticism be damned!

bgsufalcon24 · Post by **bgsufalcon24** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 6:50 pm

Falcon137 wrote:OK, with this whole thing going nowhere fast here's another ?

If/When Orr turns the men around and they again become a force in the MAC and Miller keeps churning out winning seasons will the support stay at the same level or will people who discovered the ladies because of their winning ways turn back to the men?

As someone who is fairly new to BG hoops these type of questions interest me seeing where the "pulse" of the fans is.

You just beat my last post with this one, so let me answer your questions.

I am sure that at some point we will see success under coach Orr. And when it does come, the fans will come back to some degree (provided the off the court problems stop). Do I think the women's attendance will decline? Probably not unless either the level of play declines or Curt Miller packs up and leaves for another school. The women have built their house with fairly strong bricks, its going to take a while for it to crumble if it ever does.

Jacobs4Heisman · Post by **Jacobs4Heisman** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 6:52 pm

Falcon137 wrote:
Falconboy wrote:
Falcon137 wrote:I never intended for this to be a bash on womens hoops. I shouldn't have said a few things in my 1st post but thats it. I was simply trying to understand why this university in particular values womens bball more so than mens. I know programs like UCONN and Tennessee also hold women bball in a high spot but they are consistently winning national championships.

I stand by my post about shooting #'s. In no way by me saying that women are not better shooters than men does not belittle womens bball.

I have gone to BG women's games, I have been to Dayton women's games, as well as women's NCAA Elite 8 games. I don't find the brand of bball as exciting but it's basketball and seeing a player like a Candice Parker is a treat. But I simply wanted to know why people here mainly students seem to favor womens bball over the mens.

I do not hate women's bball.
Why do you get the "feeling" the the students favor the women over the men?? Maybe cuz for right now BG women's BB is kicking but and the men not so much. You've got to understand something. BG men's hoops haven't done much since Keith Mcleods Sr. year. The BG women have been really good for 3+ years now with 3 Mac titles and 3 NCAA appearances with the latest having the team advancing the to Sweet Sixteen. So get some perspective bro.

I could argue that the support for BG women's BB could be better than it is. But its not hard to figure out why we barely cracked 2k crowds for BG men hoops in like 3 years.
Some perspective would be to look at other programs around the country. At almost any school in the country you will see twice the amount of people at a mens game than a womens game, BG is an exception to the rule. Kicking butt or not it is strange for a women's athletic team to out draw the men. You do realize they play mens and womens basketball in other schools around the country, and why it is odd no matter the level of success for women to outdraw men. Except in those special circumstances like Tennessee in the 90's where they were head and shoulders above everyone else in womens basketball and the men were not very good. Get the perspective, bro?

It's not odd at all. Women = historically good + exciting style. Men = historically bad and painful to watch. Women outdraw men slightly.

BG's a frontrunning town.

Peregrinner · Post by **Peregrinner** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 7:10 pm

I'm not sure how to answer the second question, simply because I don't think an increase in one sport's fanbase has to mean a decrease in the other. I don't know if it's the case that people "turned away" from the men's team - towards the women's team or if they simply picked up watching the women's game as well as the men's.

I guess my hope is that once Orr gets the men back to the spotlight, both teams will continue to see a good fan turnout. I do think the men will out-draw the women if the men have as much (or even close to as much) success as the women, simply because there are many people who feel the way you do about the women's game.

To me, as much as it sucks to see the men doing poorly as they have the past few years, it is sort of a mixed blessing in that some people may have discovered the women's team as they were looking for winning basketball.

BleedOrange · Post by **BleedOrange** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 7:14 pm

Falcon137 wrote:
Falconboy wrote:
Falcon137 wrote:I never intended for this to be a bash on womens hoops. I shouldn't have said a few things in my 1st post but thats it. I was simply trying to understand why this university in particular values womens bball more so than mens. I know programs like UCONN and Tennessee also hold women bball in a high spot but they are consistently winning national championships.

I stand by my post about shooting #'s. In no way by me saying that women are not better shooters than men does not belittle womens bball.

I have gone to BG women's games, I have been to Dayton women's games, as well as women's NCAA Elite 8 games. I don't find the brand of bball as exciting but it's basketball and seeing a player like a Candice Parker is a treat. But I simply wanted to know why people here mainly students seem to favor womens bball over the mens.

I do not hate women's bball.
Why do you get the "feeling" the the students favor the women over the men?? Maybe cuz for right now BG women's BB is kicking but and the men not so much. You've got to understand something. BG men's hoops haven't done much since Keith Mcleods Sr. year. The BG women have been really good for 3+ years now with 3 Mac titles and 3 NCAA appearances with the latest having the team advancing the to Sweet Sixteen. So get some perspective bro.

I could argue that the support for BG women's BB could be better than it is. But its not hard to figure out why we barely cracked 2k crowds for BG men hoops in like 3 years.
Some perspective would be to look at other programs around the country. At almost any school in the country you will see twice the amount of people at a mens game than a womens game, BG is an exception to the rule. Kicking butt or not it is strange for a women's athletic team to out draw the men. You do realize they play mens and womens basketball in other schools around the country, and why it is odd no matter the level of success for women to outdraw men. Except in those special circumstances like Tennessee in the 90's where they were head and shoulders above everyone else in womens basketball and the men were not very good. Get the perspective, bro?

137, I've also wondered about the womens v. mens support at BGSU. I think that brewer's post answers it very well.

In addition, I question whether the basic motives behind the BGSU men's and women's fans are the same. My theory: In general, (a) I suspect that mens turnout is based more on conventional appreciation of college basketball (and thus low recently), and (b) womens support is more based on school spirit of students with a higher tendency towards campus involvement (band members, other sports, USG members, RA's, etc...). So, perhaps the profile of the average mens v. womens fan is different and the comparison isn't apples-to-apples.

Concerning mens v. womens student support around the country, actual data would be good to see.

Like Flipper, I want my daughters, 6 and 8, to know that they get to play too. Both set picks and cut to the basket. Both shoot with good form, with their elbow in and their right hand behind the ball with backspin. My 8 year old is developing a good cross over, a natural born point guard!! Last summer, my 6 year old made 27 shots in a row at a 7' rim

BGorDeath · Post by **BGorDeath** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 7:39 pm

The women's legs are sexier than the men's.

brewer · Post by **brewer** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 8:30 pm

BleedOrange wrote: Concerning mens v. womens student support around the country, actual data would be good to see.

Just out of curiosity, I took about 5 minutes to spot check last year's attendance figures for about 6 or 7 other schools that I knew have had a much stronger women's program of late than their men's program. 3 of the ones I checked (Middle Tennesse, South Dakota State, and Baylor) did have a higher average attendance for women's basketball. While I'm sure there aren't too many, I'd also expect there must be at least a few more.

Unusual, sure. It's unusual for BG too. But definitely not unheard of.

BGFalconfromCincy · Post by **BGFalconfromCincy** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 8:50 pm

BleedOrange wrote:Like Flipper, I want my daughters, 6 and 8, to know that they get to play too. Both set picks and cut to the basket. Both shoot with good form, with their elbow in and their right hand behind the ball with backspin. My 8 year old is developing a good cross over, a natural born point guard!! Last summer, my 6 year old made 27 shots in a row at a 7' rim

so when will Coach Miller be out for scouting

redskins4ever · Post by **redskins4ever** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:22 pm

Falcon137 wrote: The argument that it's better basketball is also crazy, that's like saying the Div. 4 HS Boys Championship game is better than the Div. 1.

No... but I'd say that for two years (2004-2006) the #1 Division 3 school could've beaten the best team in Division 1.

PegCityFalcon · Post by **PegCityFalcon** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:22 pm

I just saw my first woman's basketball game. I will never again watch it. Basketball to me is a bit boring as is. I like watching tier 1 mens teams and last year I even enjoyed a few BG mens team games, but what I watched tonight was sooo boring. It's like going to a hockey game and watching two teams that play the trap. Sure its hockey, but nothing fancy happens and the game is soooooooo slow. It may seem sexist, but they just aren't as athletic. I enjoy woman hockey, it is still fast paced, but womans basketball is god awful garbage.

HoustonFalcon · Post by **HoustonFalcon** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:08 am

I have to chime in here. I love mens college basketball, there is no doubt that there is a difference in the way they play. They are bigger, stronger and faster than the women. BUT, what the women have are better fundamentals. Basketball in it's purest form is played on the womens side. Boxing out, setting good screens, playing good help side defense in a man to man, these are all things that the womens game has to do better than the men. Men can get beat off of the dribble and know that there is someone in the paint that is going to get up and contest the shot. The set plays in the womens game is better. In the mens game, there are a lot of pick and rolls, the court becomes smaller because of their size. I have talked to a few coaches that have coached on both sides of the game, and they say that they would rather coach on the womens side now, because the men don't want to listen as much, they think that their athleticism is enough.

As far as for the dunking aspect, I particularly don't care about the dunk anymore. The only exciting dunk anymore is the one where they go over the defender, or make a great spin move for the dunk. Dunking on a fastbreak is boring to watch for me. But I am telling you to watch for this name. Brittney Griner is a 6'6 junior here in Houston. She has already verballed to Baylor. I have seen her go up off of two feet and put it down two handed, she then proceeded to pull herself up on the rim. You will see quite a few dunks from her when she gets to college and ESPN shows them frequently. I know I am biased since I coach on the womens side, but only the person that isn't a true basketball fan would think that the women are boring to watch. If you want razzle dazzle, then yeah the men are for you. But if you like watching basketball being played the way it's supposed to be played, then there is no reason you shouldn't like the women's game.

Falconfreak90 · Post by **Falconfreak90** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:26 am

Why do I watch and follow the women's team? Because they're FALCONS....that's why. And they're damn good.

I watch and follow ALL our teams...because they're ALL FALCONS. Men, women...whatever sport. Doesn't matter to me.

I bleed so much orange and brown it leaves blood stains on the floor.

ROLL ALONG>>>>

Falconfreak90 · Post by **Falconfreak90** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:32 am

PegCityFalcon wrote:I just saw my first woman's basketball game. I will never again watch it. Basketball to me is a bit boring as is. I like watching tier 1 mens teams and last year I even enjoyed a few BG mens team games, but what I watched tonight was sooo boring. It's like going to a hockey game and watching two teams that play the trap. Sure its hockey, but nothing fancy happens and the game is soooooooo slow. It may seem sexist, but they just aren't as athletic. I enjoy woman hockey, it is still fast paced, but womans basketball is god awful garbage.

Garbage...riiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

Falcon30 · Post by **Falcon30** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:48 am

To actually answer the original post -

I love women's basketball because they were good when I was in school. I was in the band and used to love women's games more than the men. We could play more music, and Susie Cassell was my dream girl.

To me, women's b-ball being good seems 'right.' Good Football seems like the norm. I can brag more about the Men's team if they make the sweet 16, but I will always like the women's team more due to my experience at BG.

I love Football, Women's Basketball, Hockey, and then the men's b-ball team in that order.

The Raisin Bowl and Vegas Bowl...Holzinger winning the Hobey Baker...hosting an NCAAW tournament game at AA...that was my college experience, that's where I come from.