J5 on ESPN vs Atlanta 8-12-04

[Falconfreak90]

Or what is up with Heather Kozar dating first round QB busts? Maybe couch should be blaming her for all those interceptions and incompletions.

apparently, one big bust loves another.

har har.

[hammb]

I think they just played Boller, Stewart and Josh.

In addition to the above listed issues, the game was played in a downpour.
When he had the chance to drop back and set, he made some nice throws.
He made only one really bad read that i saw. He tried to go to his TE once and clearly didn't see the LB who should have picked the ball off.
He did a nice job of eluding the rush.

He looked like he belonged out there. Not many 6th round draft choices can say that.

I thought he looked awful. He had happy feet early, and was throwing off his back foot. That's not good at all. He did seem to go the right place with the ball for the most part, problem was he rarely put that ball in a place his receiver could catch it. Perhaps the rain played a factor (although he has to know how to play in such weather), but he was bouncing balls, throwing high, wide, etc. He just didn't look comfortable out there to me at all.

The game also reenforces the fact that Baltimore is a TERRIBLE situation for him. They run an offense that will not take advantage of his athleticism with rollouts, etc. He has no good veteran to learn from. Their coaching staff is spending all its time trying to make their crappy first rounder look like an NFL player. Did you notice that Baltimore's #1 & #2 QB were last and second to last in completion % last year? That's cool

It's only one game, but it definitely was a rocky start for J5, IMO. I will say that he settled down and completed his last 2 attempts, only to then run the ball to kill the clock. That said, his last throw is picked off by any good NFL DB, the guy they had out there just didn't look for the ball, and let the WR go up and get it. It wasn't a great throw as that fade should be on the outside shoulder of the WR.

Not trying to be too negative or anything, I'm just saying what I saw, and stating what I would say if he were someone on my team that I had no previous bias towards.

[kamman]

It's alright for Brown's fans to try and have a positive outlook on this upcoming football season but be realistic. The Browns are maybe the third best team in their division and the signing of a 35 year old never was doesn't solidify a playoff position, they still have a shaky offensive line and defensive secondary. The signing of overpriced Winslow doesn't mean a playoff position either, maybe if his football skills were as good as his mouth then maybe he'll be something in the NFL. And as far as the ravens being considered the criminal team in the NFL thats far from truth considering the real criminals are and always have been the cowboys.

[hammb]

It's alright for Brown's fans to try and have a positive outlook on this upcoming football season but be realistic. The Browns are maybe the third best team in their division and the signing of a 35 year old never was doesn't solidify a playoff position, they still have a shaky offensive line and defensive secondary.

I would hardly call Garcia a never was. He has been to 3 pro bowls. Oh yeah, he wasn't a first round draft pick, therefore he cannot be good He gives mobility which has never been seen from a Cleveland QB. He is also well known for his quick reads & ability to get rid of the ball on time. Those things will help him behind what is admittedly a shaky offensive line. The fact that we played all last season with our backup LT, and the starter is back, should certainly help the offensive line some. He has missed 3 games in the last 4 years combined, so I don't see him as especially injury prone, despite his 34 year old age. As for the quality of his play I fail to see how anyone could argue with the numbers. Forget the probowls in the last 4 years his TD:INT ratio is 102:45. We haven't had a QB with even an EVEN TD:INT ratio since Couch's rookie season. If you have watched the Browns over the past couple years you'd realize that the QB play has been atrocious, and has been the biggest detriment to their terrible offense.

The signing of overpriced Winslow doesn't mean a playoff position either, maybe if his football skills were as good as his mouth then maybe he'll be something in the NFL.

How is he overpriced? He signed for 6 years and $40 mil. That's about what you'd expect for anybody taken with the 6th pick in the draft. As for his football skills he's the best TE prospect EVER. This is just opinion, but its consensus opinion among all who rate football prospects. Yeah, he likes to talk. But he backs up every bit of it on the field. Almost all draft people said he was the most ready to play rookie in the draft. Everyone thinks he'll make an immediate impact, and could be an immediate pro bowler. This is not just Browns fans' opinions, it is what has been written/said about this kid since the day he declared for the draft. He's a freaky talent that the Browns were able to get into camp without an extended holdout. Will he mean the playoffs? I don't know, but he sure as heck will help the passing game; especially by providing an outlet for Garcia to dump off quickly if need be to make up for a weak OL.

And as far as the ravens being considered the criminal team in the NFL thats far from truth considering the real criminals are and always have been the cowboys.

Look at the Ravens & Cowboys. The Cowboys WERE the criminals in the NFL, but those players are long gone and Parcells wouldn't put up for it. The Ravens roster reads like a who's who in NFL criminals. Many have been charged with various offenses including more than just a few felonies. Their coaching staff doesn't seem to care what they do so long as they show up on Sundays ready to play. The Ravens ARE the new Cowboys when it comes to criminals.

[kamman]

Garcia has been injury prone for the last couple of years, he may have played through his injury but the bottom line is he never did anything in the playoffs. Big deal about his stats and pro bowl appearances, the true test of a good quarterback is how they play during the playoffs which he seems to disappear and disappoint anytime he's made the playoffs. As far as Winslow , he is overpriced for sure, how can you say he is not when possibly the best tight end of all time, Tony Gonzales, has a smaller contract then Winslow. He hasn't played one game yet and I'll believe the hype when I see it. The browns will be lucky to be a .500 team.

[FalconKing]

I taped the second half of the game so the boys would be able to see J5 play. They were in bed by 9:30 I agree with everyone here

Why couldn't the parents of the kids on my street be more sensible? They let their rugrats out on the street after 10PM. A couple were riding on a bike and another pushed one off onto my car. I just heard a loud thud, so I came charaging out of the house and chased them down the street till they explained to me what happened and I saw there was no damage.

[hammb]

Garcia has been injury prone for the last couple of years, he may have played through his injury

So what you're saying is that even when he plays hurt he's STILL an improvement over what the Browns have had in recent years. I'll take that. Injuries mean jack to me if you still go on the field and perform at a high level, which Jeff has. If he were missing 4 games a year I'd be concerned, but I'm not concerned when a guy plays with some pains and still performs at a probowl level.

but the bottom line is he never did anything in the playoffs. Big deal about his stats and pro bowl appearances, the true test of a good quarterback is how they play during the playoffs which he seems to disappear and disappoint anytime he's made the playoffs.

They've only made the playoffs twice in the time that he was in San Francisco. With the way Jeff has played I honestly don't believe that he is the problem with them not making the playoffs. When he arrived there they were a young team with no defense. They were trying to get used to the idea of not having Steve Young. Jerry Rice was run out of town. TO was their only offensive threat. Garcia made that offense work, and once they built a defense they got into the playoffs. In those playoff games the 49ers are 1-2, not good by any stretch. That said Garcia's play has not been the overwhelming problem:

@ Green Bay (where no team had ever won a playoff game at the time) Jeff was 22-32 233 yards, 1 TD & 1 INT

Against the Giants the next year he was 27-44 331 yards, 3 TD & 1 INT (they won).

Against the Bucs that same year he struggled 22-41 193 yards, 0 TD & 3 INT.

Now clearly he played terrible in the Tampa Bay game (although so did EVERY QB they faced in the playoffs that year). Other than that one game his playoff performance is not something I'd worry about. Overall his playoff passer rating is 73.2, which is about average. Nothing Stellar, but certainly not somebody that is folding everytime he enters the playoffs as you suggest. Take away the TB game and his playoff rating is 93.3 which is pretty good.

I just don't see your logic that he, "disappear[s] & disappoint[s]" everytime he gets in the playoffs. I don't think he's the greatest QB, but he is certainly an improvement over what we've had in recent years.

As far as Winslow , he is overpriced for sure, how can you say he is not when possibly the best tight end of all time, Tony Gonzales, has a smaller contract then Winslow. He hasn't played one game yet and I'll believe the hype when I see it.

There's your problem. Every first rounder is overpaid. You cannot compare first round pick salaries to other players in the NFL, because they all get huge salaries that they likely don't deserve. That's the nature of the beast. When it comes to rookies you must compare their contract to the others drafted around them to determine how their deal stacks up. It is not dependent on position. Eli Manning got a signing bonus about the same as his brothers. That's just the way it works. I don't like it, I think they should be slotted like the NBA draft picks are, but I didn't design the system and don't get a say.

The browns will be lucky to be a .500 team.

You are entitled to your opinion. I see a team that was 5-11 last year with a fairly young team. I see additions made in the major holes of the team (TE, QB, FB, RBs issues sorted out). I see the defense that was pretty good last year stayed intact and should improve due to young player development. I think the improvements that they made should equal at LEAST 3 more wins, making .500 a pretty low bar goal this season. Especially since their division is getting weaker (Bengals inserting a new QB, Steelers showing no signs of improvement).

Not sure why you come to a BG board and make your first posts anti-Browns smack, but welcome to the board.

[kamman]

Yes this is a BG board and I fully support BGSU not the Cleveland Browns.

[hammb]

Yes this is a BG board and I fully support BGSU not the Cleveland Browns.

Cool. Did you watch J5 play last night? He's still got a lot of work to do, but its always great to watch BG guys in the MAC.

[kamman]

No, I didn't see J5 play, but I hope that he makes the cut.

[bgbill]

Maybe Josh will get better when he regains the 2" height he lost (per BG's and Ravens' stats on their websites)

[hammb]

Maybe Josh will get better when he regains the 2" height he lost (per BG's and Ravens' stats on their websites)

He lost those 2" at the scouting combine when he measured at 6'1, despite being listed at 6'3 his entire career here.

Actually that was something else I noticed, he looked SMALL on TV. He never looked so small when he was at BG, but boy, with all those other guys out there it was quite noticeable that he wasn't the best athlete on the field anymore.

He'll get it together. One preseason game does not make or break an NFL career.

I think he's fairly safe from the Turk as well. Most teams will keep 3 QBs on the active roster (although one is called the "emergency QB"). Clearly is in the #3 spot now, as evidenced by his playing time last evening. There is also the fact that is only competition is an undrafted FA. Teams usually show some loyalty to their draft picks. Very rarely does someone who got drafted not make it onto the roster for their rookie year at the very least. He'd really have to play himself out of a roster spot to have the Turk give him a call. He is best served standing on the sideline and watching the game from there. It is about 10 notches faster than your average college game.

[frdmgir7]

FalconFreak90,
Thanks for the compliment on my avatar!

[Flipper]

I think he looked better than you gave him credit for. His biggest challenge will be getting more consistent mechanically. He looked a lot more comfortable on that final drive in the 4th qtr. He was moving the team and looked like he was in charge. Too bad they went conservative on him and ran the ball inside three straight times.

He did look a bit smaller out there than at the Doyt. I think his upside could be a Rodney Peete type career. On the downside, he sits for a year doesn't improve his mechanics and gets cut.

[CapitalFalcon]

I missed him, but I wish I would have caught the game...Doesn't surprise me that he is having accuracy issues in the NFL. He is one hell of an athlete, and I think can do great things in the NFL...But if there was one flaw he had even at BG is was the accuracy of his throws. Heck of an arm to get the ball down field, but not always to the right location. AT BG he was able to make up for it b/c he was always able to scramble out of things and get the ball down field that way, but that's a lot harder to do at the next level. But I think if they work on accuracy, he will become a very fine QB over the next few years. It will just take some time and coaching.