A few observations about Mid-Major sports

[daspollak]

I love college athletics and the pageantry that goes along with it. After reading this forum for months and responding a few times I have a few observations to make about BG sports and other Mid-Major teams in general.

First elite teams are elite because they not only have a winning tradition, but an alumni base that is willing to spend big money to support them. ESPN and ABC are will put on the Ohio State's and Florida's because they know people will watch them. I live in Charlotte and there is no alumni association to speak of here but OSU is alive and well, and they have events that not only watch the team play but raise money for them as well. BG will never have the alumni support that OSU and other elite teams enjoy.

Second BG will never make it to the national scene in football. The deck is stacked against Mid-Major teams in football. It is impossible for BG to put enough top-tier athletes on a field to compete with the elite teams on a regular basis. BG may from time to time get a superstar at the college level, but not enough to make a complete team. Top prospects all have NFL dreams, and the best way to achieve that is exposure. Percy Harvin of Florida is undersized but fast. Because he plays at Florida is name is out there and come draft time it may improve is stock in the draft. BG does not get enough national telecasts to bring in this top talent. Like Boise State we have to hope for a flash in the pan kind of year.

Third if BG wants to improve their stature in sports they need to look for non-traditional sports, and their is no better place to start than Hockey. If you want to build a new arena give it to the hockey team. Hockey is back to being a fringe sport in our country again, and having a dominate hockey team may get our name known around the country. The other sport we can build up a good reputation in is Women's BB. Again we have a great start there, but we must be willing to spend the money to keep the coach and improve the BB facilities. For those of you who doubt that WBB can raise the status of a school go ask Tennessee or UConn.

I want to say I am a huge fan of BG athletics and whenever I am in NW Ohio I try to catch any kind of BG sporting events. Reading some of these posts some people believe that it would be easy for BG to become an elite team. I wish fans of BG would look at BG for what we are, a Mid-Major. Finally I would love the university to take chances with our athletic programs to raise the level of visibility for our program. Find ways to bring the big schools to BG and advertise more. I love my school and keep up the postings.

[Falcon137]

Third if BG wants to improve their stature in sports they need to look for non-traditional sports, and their is no better place to start than Hockey. If you want to build a new arena give it to the hockey team. Hockey is back to being a fringe sport in our country again, and having a dominate hockey team may get our name known around the country. The other sport we can build up a good reputation in is Women's BB. Again we have a great start there, but we must be willing to spend the money to keep the coach and improve the BB facilities. For those of you who doubt that WBB can raise the status of a school go ask Tennessee or UConn.

I want to say I am a huge fan of BG athletics and whenever I am in NW Ohio I try to catch any kind of BG sporting events. Reading some of these posts some people believe that it would be easy for BG to become an elite team. I wish fans of BG would look at BG for what we are, a Mid-Major. Finally I would love the university to take chances with our athletic programs to raise the level of visibility for our program. Find ways to bring the big schools to BG and advertise more. I love my school and keep up the postings.

I agree with you for the most part.....

1st "Big name" teams will never come into a 30,000 seat stadium and play. BG tried going the Cleveland route and brought in Wisconsin and it did not turn out well.

2nd the schools you named regarding womens bball were not put on the map because of womens bball. UCONN had a very successful sports program thanks to it's mens team and Jim Calhoun. Tennessee also obviously had their football team which trumps just about everything in the state of Tennessee. The only school I personally can think of thanks to womens bball is La. Tech but even they have dropped off severely in womens bball.

We just gota keep pluggin along. We bring in Minnesota next year thats a great start. The best way to gain national attention is to win the MAC and your bowl games.

[footballguy51]

We need to win the MAC several years in a row, or be right in the running. This year we were right there, and as long as we can keep that up, we will gain exposure. To be honest, as a college athlete, I would almost want to play for a mid-major than play for a BCS school like Baylor, Syracuse, Washington State, or any other low to mid-low ability BCS schools. Also, why not go where you can start? If you aren't going to see the field at OSU, but you can start by playing at BG, Kent, OU, Akron, Cincinnati, or UT, why not go there? Sure, being at OSU is part of the glory thing and getting recognized, but it's hard to get recognized as the 2nd string offensive guard.

[Falcon137]

We need to win the MAC several years in a row, or be right in the running. This year we were right there, and as long as we can keep that up, we will gain exposure. To be honest, as a college athlete, I would almost want to play for a mid-major than play for a BCS school like Baylor, Syracuse, Washington State, or any other low to mid-low ability BCS schools. Also, why not go where you can start? If you aren't going to see the field at OSU, but you can start by playing at BG, Kent, OU, Akron, Cincinnati, or UT, why not go there? Sure, being at OSU is part of the glory thing and getting recognized, but it's hard to get recognized as the 2nd string offensive guard.

Excellent point. I think thats why you are starting to see mid-major teams in NCAA basketball creep up on the big boys. Kids are saying I would rather start right away and make an impact than sit for a year and come then come off the bench another year.

[hammb]

We need to win the MAC several years in a row, or be right in the running. This year we were right there, and as long as we can keep that up, we will gain exposure. To be honest, as a college athlete, I would almost want to play for a mid-major than play for a BCS school like Baylor, Syracuse, Washington State, or any other low to mid-low ability BCS schools. Also, why not go where you can start? If you aren't going to see the field at OSU, but you can start by playing at BG, Kent, OU, Akron, Cincinnati, or UT, why not go there? Sure, being at OSU is part of the glory thing and getting recognized, but it's hard to get recognized as the 2nd string offensive guard.

Excellent point. I think thats why you are starting to see mid-major teams in NCAA basketball creep up on the big boys. Kids are saying I would rather start right away and make an impact than sit for a year and come then come off the bench another year.

Mid major teams also get to keep their players together for a few years and let them build chemistry...not so many one & dones.

[zeket10]

We need to win the MAC several years in a row, or be right in the running. This year we were right there, and as long as we can keep that up, we will gain exposure. To be honest, as a college athlete, I would almost want to play for a mid-major than play for a BCS school like Baylor, Syracuse, Washington State, or any other low to mid-low ability BCS schools. Also, why not go where you can start? If you aren't going to see the field at OSU, but you can start by playing at BG, Kent, OU, Akron, Cincinnati, or UT, why not go there? Sure, being at OSU is part of the glory thing and getting recognized, but it's hard to get recognized as the 2nd string offensive guard.

Hey not to take the post to of topic but Trotwood Madison's Chris Wright could have went to a big time basketball program, but went to mid major Dayton in the A-10. I guess some kids would pass up the glory for the little guys.

[redskins4ever]

The MAC and BG had several things going against it this year.

1) Young QB's, even Nate Davis and Dan LeFevour were only Sophomores in their offenses, so these teams will only get better. BG has what, 60+ Freshmen and Sophomores on the team... thats a ton.

2) The Spread offense is no longer as potent against the big boys as it once was. Offenses run in fads, and the fact is many Spread Teams are still running the same offenses they were five years ago when they were throwing up tons of yards. When all you needed was an accurate QB and somewhat talented wide receivers to find openings in a zone defense.

3) Good or Great Defenses are no longer Zoning up on spread teams, its MAN on MAN on the outside with Blitzes coming from everywhere limiting the time QB's have to check down to find an open man.

4) The MAC is slowing down, or everyone else is getting faster, doesn't matter what it is, but the MAC looks slow again in comparison to other leagues. Other conferences have started to say, I don't care how small you are, if you can run 4.2 aka Noel Devine, we have a place for you.

5) The Arms race is over, everyone has great workout facilities now, so those schools which had been ahead are no longer as far ahead of the pack. It now really comes down to BALL Busting Strength and Conditioning coaches who push players BEYOND their KNOWN capabilities. Its not just how much you lift, but how often, how many reps, and how much pain you are willing to endure. I was always amazed by the turnaround Urban had with the team, with just his "Injury tent" and doing situps and pushups until you no longer were hurt, tired, or sick. How Motivated are the players to get better, how much work are they willing to put in, and what will they do on their own to get better.

[NWLB]

All of this has happened before, and will happen again.

The MAC will rebound as it has in the past, and we'll have four years of really white hot football. And we'll all like still being in that game when the day comes. Its being in position to exploit that time, as we were at the end of the last cycle, that is key.

Basketball is in much the same rut. And frankly, I'm more discouraged at the MAC not having been able to sustain that success or rebound sooner. IN truth, round ball has been down longer and worse than football recently.

I'm very interested, and highly encouraged that real plans, and time lines exist to renovate the basketball and hockey venues. Both sports need to elevate their basic facilities.

[daspollak]

Look at Rivals.com, how many of those 3 star recruits that go to OSU or the other elite schools are going to see significant playing time? Playing time is not always the number one consideration for football players in selecting a school. Some go for the academics, others for the prestige of playing for a large program, and some because of family tradition or ties. I wish BG could do a better job of pulling in those 3 star athletes.

As for basketball, I do not know why MAC schools cannot do anything. In fact it is pretty remarkable what Gonzaga has been able to do since its Cinderella success. I don't know how any MAC team can copy that.

[Jamie Gillis]

I would love to see hockey back on top. I just don't know that it can be done in Ohio for any sustained period of time. BG couldn't build on the program's success in the eighties to jump to the next level and become a perennial power. OSU couldn't do the same with the nice 6 or 7 year run they had recently. Miami's on top now, and to listen to the Miamians, one would think that they're Michigan, BU and Minnesota all rolled into one. The reality is that they've had a nice 3 year run, but if the experiences of BG and osu are any indication, that will ultimately NOT translate into any long term success as a perennial power. I believe that having 3 D1 programs sharing a state with very little hockey culture basically precludes any of those three programs from making the jump to the next level.

[redskins4ever]

1) Very little Hockey Culture... you are joking right? This state has a ton of hockey teams, the ECHL, NHL, and new hockey programs that are started every year in Central and Southern Ohio.

2) BG's fall from the upper echelon of NCAA hockey was more of Jerry York going after the Big Slow bruising hockey players with big Slap Shots than that of everyone else who was valuing speed and skill. Bowling Green guessed wrong, and that statement came from a former neighbor who has had season tickets for 25+ years. Bowling Green's recuiting fell down and they weren't able to get the top players that they had previously gotten in the following regimes of Buddy Powers and the current HC.

3) Miami's ascent in the CCHA hasn't been the fast leap that you claim it to be, its been a growing product, that has lots of things going for it. Strong Student, Alumni, and Administrative support. Really good coaches who have been recruiting the hell out of Canada and getting players to see a facility that is one of the top 5 in the country, and a lockerroom that is on par with that of the Toronto Maple Leafs. For Miami I really doubt this is some flash in the pan for the simple reason we are going to pay our Coach whatever it takes to keep him at Miami, this isn't a situation where you fear him going to the NHL, our competitors who would take him away are the big hockey Programs, MSU, Michigan, Minnesota, Denver, North Dakota, BC, Maine and BU. I don't know the salaries of those other programs but its going to be tough for Rico to walk away from such PLUSH surroundings.

4) OSU's fall from grace is a stem of several issues. 1) Their facility works against them... 6,000 in the Schott is like 1,000 at the ice arena. 2) Their best players left to go to the Pros early 3) They will never be better than the number 3 program on that campus if they are lucky, more likely 4, when it comes to sports (behind the baseball team). (Miami or BG's hockey teams can easily become the focus of those schools) 4) OSU still practices in a crappy facility, who cares if you play 16 home games at a great place, if all your practices are in a sh!t hole.

5) Why the hell is this posted in the football forum?

[NWLB]

I'm there with you Redskin. But there are those, god help them, that simply don't get hockey in the first place, and thus, all things are a mystery to them with regard to it.

Miami has fought long and hard to get to where it is. They deserve the success, they've put the money and effort into it. BGSU has the tradition and pedigree to enjoy as much and more than they have. And in all cases, tOSU isn't a hockey school and never will be. The media in Columbus doesn't understand hockey, even with an NHL team here. They understand the college game even less. This town has the mentality that since it is Columbus, it must therefore have it better than anybody else in the state.

I read the occasional article about tOSU's team, and I can tell from the inability of the writers to grasp why things are the way they are, and how Markel chooses to phrase his responses, nobody gets it down here. It is when I read people describing tOSU as a Big 10 hockey program that the gross ignorance of the college game comes to the fore.

It relates to football, because often, certain fans of that sport bristle at the fact that BGSU does spend money on hockey. I recall a former Akron and Notre Dame coach relating in a book, that a booster at UA once said the football program should be shut-down, as to channel more money to soccer.

So you have all kinds of insanity out there.

[daspollak]

For a school football is the most expensive sport that they can field. I actually can understand why some people believe that football programs should be shut down, and money be applied elsewhere. It is easier to go to an upper-echelon team in another sport other than football and basketball. UA has a good team and with the resources could compete with some of the top schools. Also basketball technically has the highest profit margin of any college sport. That is why there is over 300 D1 schools.

[MACMAN]

the only reason...ONLY REASON there are varying levels of conference with in D1 is because of the allowed discriminatory practice known as the BCS. A "SYSTEM" that is designed for that sole purpose.
If given the opportunity to have have each conference Champion meet in a playoff, the power of the now "elite" programs would slowly die.
the BCS is not about Fair play, not about crowning a Champion, its about keeping the best young players ,False titles, and the most money.

[Jamie Gillis]

the only reason...ONLY REASON there are varying levels of conference with in D1 is because of the allowed discriminatory practice known as the BCS.

That's kind of simplistic. Remember, the so-called mid majors have played in 3 major bowls this decade.

In the several decades before the BCS, they played in zero. The biggest difference, in my mind, is and always will be STADIUMS--that is the advantage that trumps everything. When you know that you'll have anywhere from 60K to 110K paying top dollar six or seven times a year that is a financial advantage that transcends bowls or the BCS and even television money. Allowing 6 mid-majors into a 16 team playoff every year is not going to so fundamentally change that.

That's not saying that it shouldn't happen for other reasons, but if you think a playoff will lead in 10-20 years to a completely level playing field and no difference between the MAC schools and the Big Ten schools, you're in for a bitter disappointment.