Ice Arena bandaid

[pdt1081]

What I don't understand, is that if more ice is in such demand in Bowling Green, why doesn't a "private entity" go ahead and build more ice?
I do not feel it is the university's job to subsidize youth hockey in Bowling Green with more ice, if they feel it is not profitable, and if it is profitable, why wouldn't it be done privately?

A change in the scheduling done by the BGYHA would go along way to show people (parents) that a second sheet really isn't needed.

[Tech83]

a simple Morton building to put a sheet of ice down inside of with seating for 1200-1500.
a new two rink project would cost about 2.2-2.5 million.

A pre-eng. metal building is not a quality structure in any sense of the word. Any governmental agency who would construct a Civic building using one of these tin boxes should be stripped of all of their funding.

The BIGGEST issue is keeping the building cool enough for ice. It is a losing battle to keep ice in a metal building. I have an ice arena client in a metal building. (It was converted from indoor soccer to ice by another one of my clients). They actually had to cancel games in Nov. because the outdoor temps were in the 50's and the ice was melting. They couldn't cool the building enough. Summer is even tougher. They have resolved some of this by pulling the in-line rink and adding Bball and Volleyball - that side will eventually support the ice side.

So its important to have a building with good thermal qualities..... not some tin barn.

Further more - your costs are off. The cost to install a new rink for one of our projects was $325,000-$350,000 and that was nearly 8 years ago. Also - you should plan on installing a concrete base - not a sand base. Therefore, You can plan on spending about $800-900 K just on the two rinks, let alone the concrete ice or the buildings.

You're going to have put fire sprinklers in the building - Add $150-200K. The building itself is going to cost about $130-$150/SF MINIMUM. The plumbing in these buldings is extensive. Then you have concessions. Plan on $100 K at least on food service equipment - unless your serving pre-packaged candy and soda.

We spend over $2M just renovating one Arena - let alone constructing new.

Sure - you can build your tin box - but the cost to operate and maintain it will be enormous. Then when it goes broke, you can park your tractor in it.

Everyone thinks constructing a building should be cheap - only if you don't intend on replacing it in the near future. (Metal bldgs have a life cycle of about 15-25 years MAX).

A Civic building should reflect us as a community and a culture. It should demonstrate the pride we have in ourselves, our community, our past and our future. Personally - a tin barn is not how I want to be remembered.

Think about what the SEBO says about BGSU. Or McFAll, The Union, Math-Science..... then think about crap buildings like the Business building, The Harshman Quad and its twin. The latter make me want to YAK!!!.

Let's have some vision...... and self-respect.

shoot if the city were thinking the roller hockey rink would have been designed to create a nice outdoor rink in the winter for this purpose.

Please name one HS or traveling team who would be willing to practice outside - without locker and toilet facilities. What parent would actually stand outside in 24 degree temps to watch their kid play hockey. Get a clue.

[Tech83]

Or better stated by Daniel Burnham, Chicago Architect and City Planner (1846–1912).

"Make no little plans; they have no magic to stir men’s blood and probably themselves will not be realized. Make big plans; aim high in hope and work, remembering that a noble, logical diagram once recorded will never die, but long after we are gone will be a living thing, asserting itself with ever-growing insistency. Remember that our sons and grandsons are going to do things that would stagger us. Let your watchword be order and your beacon beauty."

For you Clevelanders..... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_Plan

[MACMAN]

a simple Morton building to put a sheet of ice down inside of with seating for 1200-1500.
a new two rink project would cost about 2.2-2.5 million.

A pre-eng. metal building is not a quality structure in any sense of the word. Any governmental agency who would construct a Civic building using one of these tin boxes should be stripped of all of their funding.

The BIGGEST issue is keeping the building cool enough for ice. It is a losing battle to keep ice in a metal building. I have an ice arena client in a metal building. (It was converted from indoor soccer to ice by another one of my clients). They actually had to cancel games in Nov. because the outdoor temps were in the 50's and the ice was melting. They couldn't cool the building enough. Summer is even tougher. They have resolved some of this by pulling the in-line rink and adding Bball and Volleyball - that side will eventually support the ice side.

So its important to have a building with good thermal qualities..... not some tin barn.

Further more - your costs are off. The cost to install a new rink for one of our projects was $325,000-$350,000 and that was nearly 8 years ago. Also - you should plan on installing a concrete base - not a sand base. Therefore, You can plan on spending about $800-900 K just on the two rinks, let alone the concrete ice or the buildings.

You're going to have put fire sprinklers in the building - Add $150-200K. The building itself is going to cost about $130-$150/SF MINIMUM. The plumbing in these buldings is extensive. Then you have concessions. Plan on $100 K at least on food service equipment - unless your serving pre-packaged candy and soda.

We spend over $2M just renovating one Arena - let alone constructing new.

Sure - you can build your tin box - but the cost to operate and maintain it will be enormous. Then when it goes broke, you can park your tractor in it.

Everyone thinks constructing a building should be cheap - only if you don't intend on replacing it in the near future. (Metal bldgs have a life cycle of about 15-25 years MAX).

A Civic building should reflect us as a community and a culture. It should demonstrate the pride we have in ourselves, our community, our past and our future. Personally - a tin barn is not how I want to be remembered.

Think about what the SEBO says about BGSU. Or McFAll, The Union, Math-Science..... then think about crap buildings like the Business building, The Harshman Quad and its twin. The latter make me want to YAK!!!.

Let's have some vision...... and self-respect.

shoot if the city were thinking the roller hockey rink would have been designed to create a nice outdoor rink in the winter for this purpose.

Please name one HS or traveling team who would be willing to practice outside - without locker and toilet facilities. What parent would actually stand outside in 24 degree temps to watch their kid play hockey. Get a clue.

I never said anything about the lack of locker rooms. As for the steel building ...well not to mention tamo..the cube and oh about every none ARENA, Arena ...or quonset hut styled post and beam and steel....there are not many brick and mortar rinks and when spend time in these rinks, you can see how efficient they are with good use of insulation. there are many reasons, the largest is feasibility as to why the steel building are the predominate structure of choice in these facilities.
Lastly BG's rink realy would only have to 3 season structure, serving the community as an Ice rink in fall, winter and spring and then they could shut it down the summer and it would have well served its purpose. A lot of the best hockey played in North America is done so in some of the most unsightly buildings and shelter type buildings .

[Bleeding Orange]

A pre-eng. metal building is not a quality structure in any sense of the word. Any governmental agency who would construct a Civic building using one of these tin boxes should be stripped of all of their funding.

UConn plays hockey in one of these structures. I was there for the holiday tourney BG played in a couple of years ago, and it is a very simple building.

http://www.uconnhuskies.com/MainLinks/F ... ities.html

I wonder if they have problems in warmer weather with it? But, if you read about it on that link (toward the bottom of the page), it sounds like they're just happy it has a roof on it...

[hammb]

shoot if the city were thinking the roller hockey rink would have been designed to create a nice outdoor rink in the winter for this purpose.

That was not the city's call. I was working part time for the City when that was put in. Myself, and a few other workers did most of the labor (former footballer Aaron Alexander was part of our crew).

That roller rink was put in by some company that goes around putting them in. Some woman from out west, gave the city like $18k and said, put in one of these roller rink things. I'm not sure if she was originally from BG or what, but her husband had died and she was spending her inheritance, I believe. Anyways, she told them exactly how to spend that money and it involved this company that builds those things.

There were 3 people from the company that came out. They had the concrete work done professionally, then those 3 guys and a group of us from the city did all the rest of the labor.

Basically the City was given the cash and told how to spend it. They weren't given a choice to make it able to be flooded for winter play or anything like that. They were offered a gift and just said thanks. If you think they should've had it be capable of ice hockey I suggest you find out who that donor was and call her up and tell her next time she donates we want ice & roller hockey.

[Tech83]

.............. As for the steel building ...well not to mention tamo..the cube and oh about every none ARENA, Arena ...or quonset hut styled post and beam and steel....there are not many brick and mortar rinks and when spend time in these rinks, you can see how efficient they are with good use of insulation. there are many reasons, the largest is feasibility as to why the steel building are the predominate structure of choice in these facilities.

You are confusing a steel structural system with a pre-eng metal building. Two totally different things. Any large arena is going to be made of steel - its the only way you can economically construct the clear span. However - this does not mean the building is a pre-engineering Morton cow barn. Far from it.

And just because you see metal panels, does mean its the crap that a pre-eng building manufacturer supplies. I use metal panels, but their not the thin tin of a Morton building. You CAN"T insulate a pre-eng metal buidling enough to make it worthy of a sound civic boulding. Its fine for the private sector - its stupid for the public sector.

There is ecomony in the use of steel - not in the use of pre-eng Morton Building.

[cbjhack]

Rather than building a new sheet of ice, it would make more sense to me to turn the curling rink into regular ice for figure skating and the "little guys" to play hockey on. It seems to me that the curling area gets very little use for the amount of space and money that it takes, and could be more wisely used as "regular" ice. Just my thoughts and opinion.

That is one thing I have heard is going to happen. I heard from a very reliable source within the AD.

I do agree a second sheet is needed, and the side of the tennis courts is where it should go. But then you have the added expense of having to build new tennis courts somewhere. While the courts don't generate any revenue, they are cheap to maintain and anyone can use them. More people play tennis than golf and the tennis is growing in popularity annually.

Converting the curling rink into a second sheet would be a wise move that would generate more revenue. Currently the curling rink is used at the most four hours a day, if that. Converting it to a regular rink would allow figure skaters, and hockey to be held at the same time, easing the demand for ice. Everytime a former BG player or skater is shown on TV (Scott Hamilton, Rob Blake, etc), I think ten new BG residents want to play hockey or figure skate.

Regardless, I think the changes proposed will be great and you will be surprised to hear the rational for them. Of course, it will be debated to no end on these pages, but they can't make everyone happy. Just enough people that recruits will want to play there and leagues will want to use the ice.

[FalconTurf]

I do agree a second sheet is needed, and the side of the tennis courts is where it should go. But then you have the added expense of having to build new tennis courts somewhere. While the courts don't generate any revenue, they are cheap to maintain and anyone can use them. More people play tennis than golf and the tennis is growing in popularity annually.

Converting the curling rink into a second sheet would be a wise move that would generate more revenue. Currently the curling rink is used at the most four hours a day, if that. Converting it to a regular rink would allow figure skaters, and hockey to be held at the same time, easing the demand for ice. Everytime a former BG player or skater is shown on TV (Scott Hamilton, Rob Blake, etc), I think ten new BG residents want to play hockey or figure skate.

Regardless, I think the changes proposed will be great and you will be surprised to hear the rational for them. Of course, it will be debated to no end on these pages, but they can't make everyone happy. Just enough people that recruits will want to play there and leagues will want to use the ice.

I thought the tennis courts behind the Ice Arena were replaced by the new ones between Stellar Field and the softball field. Are they still using the old ones?

Can't curling be played 4 hours a day on secondary rink? I thought I saw a Canadian tournament on TV played on a full-sized rink.

The debates on this stage are great! They demonstrate the passion for hockey and ice at BGSU and in the community. Without that passion the rink would never get any money. Long live the Ice Arena.

[TG1996]

But then you have the added expense of having to build new tennis courts somewhere. While the courts don't generate any revenue, they are cheap to maintain and anyone can use them. More people play tennis than golf and the tennis is growing in popularity annually.

You should have asked your "very reliable source within to the AD" about this picture, then.

Though the placement of the tennis courts on the beloved golf practice area leaves a question on where the proposed "baseball/softball locker room" project may sit. They dropped those tennis courts smack in the middle of where I figured that building would go. Also, if there's a plan to build a "more distinguished entrance" (or however it was worded) to Cochrane Stadium, with paved parking, will part of the current tennis courts be swallowed up in that venture?

It's an exciting, yet confusing time for BG...

[rc_ziggy84]

Can't curling be played 4 hours a day on secondary rink? I thought I saw a Canadian tournament on TV played on a full-sized rink..

No, well not very well anyways. I was in the BG Curling Club for a couple of years and I'm not an expert by any means, but the game is very sensitive to any debris or imperfections in the ice. If the rink were used for skating/hockey whatever else the rink would not be conducive to good curling.

However, I'm not up in arms defending the preservation of the curling rink, though i have some friends who probably would. It would be cool to see that stay though. It'll be interested to see what the university does

[FalconTurf]

Can't curling be played 4 hours a day on secondary rink? I thought I saw a Canadian tournament on TV played on a full-sized rink..

No, well not very well anyways. I was in the BG Curling Club for a couple of years and I'm not an expert by any means, but the game is very sensitive to any debris or imperfections in the ice. If the rink were used for skating/hockey whatever else the rink would not be conducive to good curling.

However, I'm not up in arms defending the preservation of the curling rink, though i have some friends who probably would. It would be cool to see that stay though. It'll be interested to see what the university does

That would make sense considering a simple brush with a broom on the ice changes the path and/or speed of the rock (excuse me for lacking the terminology).

What amazes me is when I took a Sports Mgmt. class taught by Jack Vivian in the late 80's he mentioned being involved the HRC in Findlay and how they were or might purchase turf that attached to ice using suction cups so soccer could be played in their rink. At that time the rink was not being used enough. Twenty years later there are 2 rinks in Findlay, 1 in Fremont and an apparent need for more ice in BG. Seems hockey is taking hold in NW Ohio.

[transfer2BGSU]

I heard about two or three minutes of the Q&A last night and what I heard was about the curling ice.

Evidently they are looking at using the curling sheet for some other use. Buddy Powers said curling generated $40,000 of revenue.

Seemed to be very many upset people at the presentation.

[Falcon Fanatic]

I heard about two or three minutes of the Q&A last night and what I heard was about the curling ice.

Evidently they are looking at using the curling sheet for some other use. Buddy Powers said curling generated $40,000 of revenue.

Seemed to be very many upset people at the presentation.

Unfortunately for the Curlers, what happens to their dedicated ice surface is going to be determined by finances. The curling ice sits idle about 90% of the time (according to an AD member at the meeting last night). That's a LOT of lost revenue/ice time when the bottom line to them is $$$$. This is all stuff I learned last night from the talks, questions and asking a few questions myself afterwards.

[MACMAN]

shoot if the city were thinking the roller hockey rink would have been designed to create a nice outdoor rink in the winter for this purpose.

That was not the city's call. I was working part time for the City when that was put in. Myself, and a few other workers did most of the labor (former footballer Aaron Alexander was part of our crew).

That roller rink was put in by some company that goes around putting them in. Some woman from out west, gave the city like $18k and said, put in one of these roller rink things. I'm not sure if she was originally from BG or what, but her husband had died and she was spending her inheritance, I believe. Anyways, she told them exactly how to spend that money and it involved this company that builds those things.

There were 3 people from the company that came out. They had the concrete work done professionally, then those 3 guys and a group of us from the city did all the rest of the labor.

Basically the City was given the cash and told how to spend it. They weren't given a choice to make it able to be flooded for winter play or anything like that. They were offered a gift and just said thanks. If you think they should've had it be capable of ice hockey I suggest you find out who that donor was and call her up and tell her next time she donates we want ice & roller hockey.

LOL I would never spank a gift horse in the mouth...the city on the other hand has and will continue to long after I m in the ground...just suprised they did not on this one.

As for the curling ice...the ceiling is way to low for mcuh of anything besdies curling and besides BG has very rich curling tradition. i dont know the status of the club now but it used be strong.
and yes your right about the steel buildings all though I have seen prefabs used as well.