Please explain something to me

[Warthog]

This is from Thursday's Blade about our recruiting class:
"Brandon isn't sure where on the field each of his six defensive backs will play but he expects some will get bigger and end up at linebacker."

Here is the listed weights of the six DB recruits: 170, 170, 1707 (?), 175, 180, and 195. Morgan is the 195. He was recruited as an 'athlete'. Where do 'athletes' end up here? On the offensive side. So we have five guys that are currently 180 or less that Brandon wants to bulk up and make LBs out of some of them. This seems illogical in so many ways.

First, if we need LBs, why don't we just recruit LBs?

Second, if these kids are good enough to earn a scholarship as a DB, why would you think about changing them to LB before they even get here?

Third, If you already think you want them to change position, why are you recruiting them? Which sends me back to my first point.

Fourth, these guys have played and succeeded at their current weights. Maybe having them bulk up will hurt their play? I mean OL lineman you can bulk up by telling them to eat certain foods and more of it. And they lift more weights and it is all good. But DBs? I don't get it.

Five, we already have 15 scholarship DBs returning next season. Great we can redshirt all these guys. But if we are looking for LBs down the road, RECRUIT LBs!!!

I'd have to go back and look at each class, but it seems like each year, we bring in a larger then normal number of kids at certain positions while completely ignoring others. OK, I know we needed to get OL this year, but that is a product of not brining in enough the last two years. And now this year there is just one WR, one LB, and zero RB. Do you know what we have at RB next year? Turner, a SR to be, Nate Waldron, a converted DB and a SR, Ransom coming off an ACL injury, Bullock who will be a jr, and Geter who, at his size, can't be expected to play every down. Maybe Jamaal Brown will go back to RB, who knows. But I can almost bet that next year's recruiting class will include five RB, six WRs, and another four or five DBs, while ignoring LB and OL completely.

It's like the NFL draft, take the best player available. Except in our case, we are scrambling to fill huge roster gaps so we end up taking players for needs, rather then being the best talent we can get.

[Flipper]

You get waaaay too hung on up labels. It's not like they're recruiting dogs to be cats, they're recruiting football players to play football. You bring in the kids who have attributes you like. As they mature and grow you find the spot where they best fit.

FWIW, I didn't hear Brandon say they were looking at turning a number of DB's into LB's...he said some of the DB's may wind up playing somewhere else. He then mentioned that Keith Morgan..who now weighs 202... may find himself playing closer to the line of scrimmage in the future.

[Warthog]

FWIW, I didn't hear Brandon say they were looking at turning a number of DB's into LB's...

Did you see what I quoted in from the Blade? "Brandon isn't sure where on the field each of his six defensive backs will play but he expects some will get bigger and end up at linebacker."

Let me try to look at this from a different perspective then. Do you think a basketball coach recruits 6'5"-6'7" guys that weigh 180 lbs with the intention of having them gain weight and play power forward? No, he recruits them for what they are. Or does the hockey coach recruit forwards and centers with the intention of making them defensemen? Or the baseball coach recruit OFs with the intention of making them catchers? I don't think so. So why does Brandon recruit a crapload of DBs every year with the intention of making them LBs?

If Morgan is already up to 200 lbs, fine he might get big enough to play LB.

But here is another reason I hate this. LBs have to have a nasty mindset. They want to hit people. They want to be in the middle of everything. DBs? Most of them are playing there because they DON'T want to hit people. How do most DBs tackle? They dive at guys legs instead of hitting with their shoulders, wrapping up with theirs arms and driving a man into the ground. So you take these guys with poor tackling techniques and move them to a position that is expected to make lots of tackles. How is that logical?

[Flipper]

Let me repeat..I heard Brandon say some DB's might get moved. I heard him say ONE might move closer to the line of scrimmage...I don't know what was in the blade and I'm not sure I care given what I heard the man say with my own two ears.

Your analogies don't really hold up that well for a number of reasons. Primarily, you assume that the coaches have recruited these kids with the expressed intent of moving them elsewhere...that isn't the case at all. They're simply pointing out that as time passes and these kids grow and mature they MAY wind up playing elsewhere as the team needs and their abilities dictate.

The hockey analogy doesn't hold up because kids don't tend to play a number of positions in hockey...at leas tth ekids I knew that played didn't. DMen don't usually play wing...goalies don't usually also play wing or defense. Centers might play wing though and vice versa...it's a bit different in football. Most of these kids bounce around on both sides of the ball so they have at least some fundamental training on the skill sets needed for offense and defense. The coaches can work with them on the rest once they get here.

I really don't get what your problem is with this stuff...you were complaining earlier about siging only 2 "true" OL players last year What the heck does that even mean? Those guys played on both sides of the ball in HS, does the use fo the letters "DL" on a signing day press release make their OL play any less real? Do you think they should sign a kid for a specific positon as an 18 year old and just keep him there for 4-5 years no matter what else occurs with him or the team? That strikes me as being needlessly rigid and a bit dogmatic. Demark Jenkins played QB, DB and WR in HS this past year...what slot does he fit?

And I couldn't disagree with you more about the mindset of our DB recruits. If you would bother to watch the film on these kids none fo them are shy abnout getting in there and hitting people. I don't think any of our current DB's play like that either. There isn't a Neon Deion in the bunch. Look at Erique Dozier..he came here as a DB and now he's a NASTY LB.

Frankly...I think this is just another instance of you trying reallllllly hard to find fault with the current staff. Have you at least had the courtesy to email or call them to air thse concerns or do you just want to air these grievances here?

[takeoffeh]

With the "athletic" position. These are players the coaches want on the team somewhere. Where? They probably don't know yet, but the player is either one heck of an athlete and can make things happen, a good special teams player, or a mixture of many things. Players switching positions is common. Just depends on the player. I knew players recruited to play LB, and ended up starting as a Center. A QB recruit playing TE. I can totally see a DB stepping into a LB roll. Not everyone in the DB position can do it, but if you have a DB that's 6'1" or 6'2", coming out of high school playing a DB position at 170-185. College can add 20-40lbs in a couple years.

I understand the concern that it seems like we don't recruit enough enough LB players. I feel that LB's are one of the hardest position to recruit. There just aren't as many of them. If you're a stud LB in high school, over 6'2", your more than likely a stud full back or TE as well. Just my opinion.

[Jacobs4Heisman]

I don't know who's argument this supports, but the "studdiest" LB I remember Brandon recruiting can't even get on the field.

It's obvious this staff values speed on the defensive side of the ball over size and strength. I think they're way off, and I think the results have been obvious. I'm also not sure they really have any other recourse. Nobody in the MAC really has much of a defense.

[BGSUFootballFan]

I agree that our LB recruiting has been a bit poor, but then again moving Bull Dozier from DB to LB was a great move IMO. Making those types of moves only work *IF* the kid can put on some weight and more importantly can TACKLE!

[tiznow]

I don't know who's argument this supports, but the "studdiest" LB I remember Brandon recruiting can't even get on the field.

It's obvious this staff values speed on the defensive side of the ball over size and strength. I think they're way off, and I think the results have been obvious. I'm also not sure they really have any other recourse. Nobody in the MAC really has much of a defense.

JH4,

I think you should trademark "studdiest". I like it.

[Spart43]

I don't know who's argument this supports, but the "studdiest" LB I remember Brandon recruiting can't even get on the field.

I think John Haneline and Glen Stanley are both Brandon recruits. Most seem to think they play LB pretty well.

[Jacobs4Heisman]

I don't know who's argument this supports, but the "studdiest" LB I remember Brandon recruiting can't even get on the field.

I think John Haneline and Glen Stanley are both Brandon recruits. Most seem to think they play LB pretty well.

True - I was speaking of Brandon Jackson. I think he's the LB recruit with the most accolades coming out of HS.

[Warthog]

Do you think they should sign a kid for a specific positon as an 18 year old and just keep him there for 4-5 years no matter what else occurs with him or the team? That strikes me as being needlessly rigid and a bit dogmatic.

I am not saying that kids shouldn't change position. If a kid gets bigger after being here a few years or shows a propensity to be able to do something better at a certain position, by all means, change their position. But to expect skill positon guys to add weight and change positions seems silly.

What I don't understand is the philosophy of recruiting players with the intention of changing their position. If they are going to be better at the new position, why weren't they playing there in high school?

Or if you recognize a need at a position, why don't you target that position during recruiting? It looks like we have no long range direction/plan on what we need to recruit. Do you think that the fact that we might need some more OL just struck Brandon after the season ended and realized that five guys were graduating? I doubt it, but why wasn't he looking at that fact two years ago and getting some OL recruits in here then so they would be ready for '08. Instead, we have to get juco guys and move players from other positions to fill the gap. That the situation where I hate having to move players, because we have to fill holes because we failed to plan.

[hammb]

I don't know who's argument this supports, but the "studdiest" LB I remember Brandon recruiting can't even get on the field.

I think John Haneline and Glen Stanley are both Brandon recruits. Most seem to think they play LB pretty well.

I don't think J4H was knocking on the guys we currently have playing LB. I think he was talking about Brandon Jackson who was talked about as being a HUGE get for us on signing day, and hasn't really gotten playing time.

Of course he could be talking about someone else, not sure.

While I'm not a fan of moving people multiple times, and I do think we move people more than a lot of programs, I'm not that worked up over this. As others have indicated I think it's nearly impossible for MAC schools to recruit true stud LBs...it's a rare breed of size and speed that rarely falls through the cracks to our level of recruiting; unless they have off the field type issues. Given that the stud LBs are generally not found at MAC schools our staff has decided they prefer to take the kids who are undersized. Personally I'd rather have the ideally sized kids that might be a step slow, especially given our drastically undersized DL. But, I'm not the defensive coordinator.

I have no problem with recruiting a kid who played DB in HS with the thought that he can be bulked up to play LB. What I don't like is starting a kid at CB as a freshman, then moving him to safety, then moving him to LB, and never allowing him to really get comfortable in one position. It's quite common to slot a kid on signing day into a different position than he played in HS. It's when we keep moving them after their sophomore or junior years that I get frustrated. Especially when you're moving kids from offense to defense or vice versa after a few years in the system. Yeah they probably played the other side in HS, but that was awhile ago, and they're basically going to the other side raw.

Dozier has become a pretty good LB for us, but honestly I think he would've been a total beast playing closer to 210 at safety. He looked damn good at that position from what I saw before he was moved to LB.

In the end, as J4H said, it's nearly impossible to build a legit defense at this level. I'm more concerned about our lack of fundamental tackling on that side of the ball than I am our penchant for being too small.

[Flipper]

They AREN"T recrutiing kids with the intention of changing their positions...they're simply pointing out that if circumstances suggest that its the better course to take, they'll do so..

[Rightupinthere]

It's like the NFL draft, take the best player available. Except in our case, we are scrambling to fill huge roster gaps so we end up taking players for needs, rather then being the best talent we can get.

No, I think they ARE taking the best players available - hence why we have a perceived glut at certain positions.

I'm not saying this is good or bad, I just want the kids to learn sound and fundamental football to whichever position they play.

That's all I'm saying.

[cph2133]

Both recruited as DB's (Safeties, but still) and Goodwin (who was listed at 195 when he signed) was our starting LB last season (perhaps it was the 06 season, but still) before he quit the team. It's been done before, I have faith in GB and doing what he's done. We may not have signed top players at the LB position, but they has been our strong point on the D for the last years.

Kind of like being the tallest little person though....