Pitt

[PITTMAN]

This is the NFL we're talking about... One season a team can be 6-10, the next 15-1 (Pgh Steelers 03 and 04)... I can see your point w/ inheriting a good team, but 4 years later??

Marino, at this present moment, is better than Jay Fiedler ever was... To even say that it wasn't a major drop off is just simply incorrect...

Don't forget Wanny traded high draft picks to get Williams... Williams bailed on him and w/ a rash of injuries, he was using the 4th RB... The defense was always good down there... Are you going to give him credit for that if you're going to blame the Dolphins' demise on him??

I can't stress this enough; in the NFL, a non-playoff team one season can almost go undefeated the next season... A team that wins a superbowl, returns essentially the whole team, may not even make the playoffs the next year....

To not give DW at least some credit for the early 2000's Dolphins success just shows that you've formed a biased opinion that you refuse to change...Even if you didn't come to the conclusion yourself but read everyone else talk about DW... In the first four years his worst record was 9-7.... That can't be ALL Jimmy Johnson's doing, ecspecially in the salary cap era...

[JoeFalcon]

Funny you should ask, he was a topic of an article today..

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsbu ... 81089.html

That was one of the best football articles I've read in a long time. The author gets it: NFL West Coast offenses are rarely effective at the college level unless you've got incredible athletes to execute the system. They're too complicated to learn and do a poor job of exploiting the type of mismatches that you can get from college defenses.

One of the last holdouts to the old NFL style, Tommy Tuberville at Auburn, finally relented and hired a spread guy during this past off-season. The only reason this evolution hasn't happened sooner is because of old recruiting fears. Many coaches wanted an NFL system to sell to players who have NFL ambitions. Now most just want to score points and win games.

[jlozer8]

This is the NFL we're talking about... One season a team can be 6-10, the next 15-1 (Pgh Steelers 03 and 04)... I can see your point w/ inheriting a good team, but 4 years later??

Marino, at this present moment, is better than Jay Fiedler ever was... To even say that it wasn't a major drop off is just simply incorrect...

Don't forget Wanny traded high draft picks to get Williams... Williams bailed on him and w/ a rash of injuries, he was using the 4th RB... The defense was always good down there... Are you going to give him credit for that if you're going to blame the Dolphins' demise on him??

I can't stress this enough; in the NFL, a non-playoff team one season can almost go undefeated the next season... A team that wins a superbowl, returns essentially the whole team, may not even make the playoffs the next year....

To not give DW at least some credit for the early 2000's Dolphins success just shows that you've formed a biased opinion that you refuse to change...Even if you didn't come to the conclusion yourself but read everyone else talk about DW... In the first four years his worst record was 9-7.... That can't be ALL Jimmy Johnson's doing, ecspecially in the salary cap era...

Perhaps my bias is a legit argument, but I would then argue that you, as a Pitt fan I assume, are biased both towards your coach, AND toward Dan Marino, easily the best football alum of Pitt. Marino, in his last season, threw for 12 TD's and 17 interceptions, a 55.3 completion percentage, and a 67.4 QB rating. All of those numbers are far from remarkable, and well below his career averages. Fiedler, in his 1st season as a starter, threw for 14 TD's, 14 interceptions, a 57.1 completion percentage, and a 74.5 QB rating. Where's the significant drop in skills there? Fiedler was better in every category, and proceeded to improve in all of those areas over the course of the next 2 seasons as well.

How's that for bias?

[tiznow]

This is the NFL we're talking about... One season a team can be 6-10, the next 15-1 (Pgh Steelers 03 and 04)... I can see your point w/ inheriting a good team, but 4 years later??

Marino, at this present moment, is better than Jay Fiedler ever was... To even say that it wasn't a major drop off is just simply incorrect...

Don't forget Wanny traded high draft picks to get Williams... Williams bailed on him and w/ a rash of injuries, he was using the 4th RB... The defense was always good down there... Are you going to give him credit for that if you're going to blame the Dolphins' demise on him??

I can't stress this enough; in the NFL, a non-playoff team one season can almost go undefeated the next season... A team that wins a superbowl, returns essentially the whole team, may not even make the playoffs the next year....

To not give DW at least some credit for the early 2000's Dolphins success just shows that you've formed a biased opinion that you refuse to change...Even if you didn't come to the conclusion yourself but read everyone else talk about DW... In the first four years his worst record was 9-7.... That can't be ALL Jimmy Johnson's doing, ecspecially in the salary cap era...

Perhaps my bias is a legit argument, but I would then argue that you, as a Pitt fan I assume, are biased both towards your coach, AND toward Dan Marino, easily the best football alum of Pitt. Marino, in his last season, threw for 12 TD's and 17 interceptions, a 55.3 completion percentage, and a 67.4 QB rating. All of those numbers are far from remarkable, and well below his career averages. Fiedler, in his 1st season as a starter, threw for 14 TD's, 14 interceptions, a 57.1 completion percentage, and a 74.5 QB rating. Where's the significant drop in skills there? Fiedler was better in every category, and proceeded to improve in all of those areas over the course of the next 2 seasons as well.

How's that for bias?

Easily the best alum of Pitt? They have had a great football tradition. There is no way to say he is easily the best. Tony Dorsett, Mike Ditka. Hugh Green was the best college football player I have ever seen. He should have won the Heisman, but he played defense.
I used to go to Pitt games as a kid with my dad. I liked Pitt as a kid but never got brainwashed.

[PITTMAN]

Perhaps you are right, I am a little biased about Marino.. If your numbers are correct, which I assume they are, you are right... I do tend to jump to his defense a little too much, not that I have to do it that often... DW, on the other hand, I might as well create a boilerplate post to defend the man... I think anyone outside of Allegheny County thinks he is the worst coach in America..

Marino one of the best QBs in history, and certainly at Pitt, but HG was one of the best, if not the best, defensive player in college football history....

An interesting fact about Tony Dorsett: He is the only player in history to be in the college hall of fame, pro football hall of fame, win a heisman, win a superbowl and win a national championship... (Marcus Allen was close, but didn't play in USC's championship game)..


Lastly, for anyone who is a Redskin fan out there, Pitt was responsible for two of the 5 "hogs" in the 1980's: Mark May and Russ Grimm.. both drafted in the same class... Known for telling opposing defenses what plays were going to be run and they still couldn't stop it...

Grimm should be enshrined in the NFL HOF and I'm sure another Pitt alum, Curtis Martin, will be enshrined some day as well...

[jlozer8]

Perhaps you are right, I am a little biased about Marino.. If your numbers are correct, which I assume they are, you are right... I do tend to jump to his defense a little too much, not that I have to do it that often... DW, on the other hand, I might as well create a boilerplate post to defend the man... I think anyone outside of Allegheny County thinks he is the worst coach in America..

Marino one of the best QBs in history, and certainly at Pitt, but HG was one of the best, if not the best, defensive player in college football history....

An interesting fact about Tony Dorsett: He is the only player in history to be in the college hall of fame, pro football hall of fame, win a heisman, win a superbowl and win a national championship... (Marcus Allen was close, but didn't play in USC's championship game)..


Lastly, for anyone who is a Redskin fan out there, Pitt was responsible for two of the 5 "hogs" in the 1980's: Mark May and Russ Grimm.. both drafted in the same class... Known for telling opposing defenses what plays were going to be run and they still couldn't stop it...

Grimm should be enshrined in the NFL HOF and I'm sure another Pitt alum, Curtis Martin, will be enshrined some day as well...

Hmm, good post. Lots of stuff I didn't know about Pitt and it's alums. And I do hope Curtis Martin makes it into the hall. I always respected him a lot, even though he was always playing for a division rival of my Dolphins!

[VDub26Falcon]

Did Cu-Mar really do all that much PLAYING? I always saw him as a good guy to keep updated on the DL.

[Jacobs4Heisman]

Did Cu-Mar really do all that much PLAYING? I always saw him as a good guy to keep updated on the DL.

Other than being only the second player in history to rush for 1,000 yards in each of his first 10 seasons, become only the 4th player in history to get to 14,000 rushing yards, and currently sitting in 4th place all time in rushing yards, he didn't do a whole hell of a lot.

[VDub26Falcon]

Bait: Taken.

[jlozer8]

Martin rushed for over 1,000 yards in each of his first 10 of 11 seasons. Ended up with 14,101 career yards. He missed 8 games in his 11 year career and 4 of them were in his last year. He played all 16 games in 8 of his 11 seasons. Probably worthy of the hall.