Sheehan's happy feet

Pete Segaard · Post by **Pete Segaard** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 8:45 am

Is this the result of a new quarterbacks coach? Is Hofer implementing different reads or style of play that Tyler is not comfortable with?

hammb · Post by **hammb** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 9:08 am

It'd probably be hard for any of us to say really, without any sort of inside knowledge. I'm not really sure this is a new development totally, either. There were stretches where Tyler looked comfortable last year, but there were stretches where he would have the happy feet then as well.

Personally, I just don't think Tyler is the best fit for this offense. He doesn't offer the rushing threat that Harris gave us. Nor does he offer the pinpoint accuracy that Jacobs had. He's good enough to move the chains, but once we get into the redzone he struggles to punch it in. The throwing windows are much tighter near the goal line, and without being a true rushing threat it makes it much more difficult to finish drives.

One thing I'd like to see us do more of to combat this is trying to score from further out. When we get to the 25-30 yard line I would like to see us try to hit some plays downfield for TDs, rather than be content to keep getting first downs. The play to Parks this Saturday would be a perfect example.

JohnnySwoop '85 · Post by **JohnnySwoop '85** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 9:12 am

Are we talking about the same QB that had a 19 yard TD run this past Saturday night?
I think it was the same guy who scored a key TD against Pitt....by running the ball.

This is '87's cue for finding appropriate cut/paste content for Nit Picking.

orangeandbrown · Post by **orangeandbrown** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 9:14 am

Well, that's not quite fair, Swoop. Yes, Tyler has had some nice runs. But, if you're talking about being a running threat like Josh Harris was, he just isn't. Its not nit picking. A two-dimensional QB is a lot more dangerous.

JohnnySwoop '85 · Post by **JohnnySwoop '85** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 9:20 am

More two-dimensional than passing for 3 TD's and running for 19 yards for another?

Sorry, Vince Young is no longer eligible.

We'll go with what we got, and that's still pretty decent.

Warthog · Post by **Warthog** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 9:49 am

Sheehan's TD runs work just like trick plays work. The defense isn't playing him to run so they ignore it long enough that we can have success with it one time near the goal line. If we tried to run him 15-20 times a game like Harris did, he would average about 2 yards per carry, if that.

And with that, I say that is the problem with the offense. We have one QB we throw with (Sheehan) and one that we run with (Turner). The defense adjusts to which ever one is back there. Meaning if Sheehan is out there, they play the pass and get burnt by the occasional Sheehan run. When Turner is out there, they play the QB run and get burnt by the occasional pass. Until we get a QB back there that can do both (pass and run), the defense has a much easier job of scheming against and stopping us.

Flipper · Post by **Flipper** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 9:54 am

The offense was far more consistent and effective in 03 and 04 when we had a QB that functioned as a second RB. Omar was a less effective QB in 2005 (IMHO) primarily because he became less of a threat running the football.

Tyler has ripped off a couple of long runs this year because no one in the building thought he was going to tuck it and run...I think that says a lot about how our QB is viewed by the opposition.

hammb · Post by **hammb** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 9:57 am

Tyler has had some nice runs in the red zone this year because we don't attempt it often and it catches the defenses completely by surprise. The more we keep calling his number on QB keepers though, the less effective they'll become.

I love that we're using it to catch defenses off guard, but he is flat out NOT a true rushing threat. He doesn't break tackles, nor does he have great speed. He's probably about equal to Jacobs as a rusher, but Omar was not a great runner either.

Dr. Reality · Post by **Dr. Reality** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 10:14 am

Wow, Hamm, your review of Sheehan was a bulls-eye analysis --- nicely articulated. He is a superb passer much the same as Patridge is a superb receiver, but neither player has been endowed with running legs. It's probably no coincidence that neither were sprinters in high school.

cowboyjoe · Post by **cowboyjoe** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 11:07 am

Hey Warthog...sounds like you want Josh Harris to come back again. We are lucky to get who we get here. Josh Harris types come through here how oftern? A QB that can run/throw big-time sounds like would be going to a top ten team!

Warthog · Post by **Warthog** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:24 pm

Yes, would be great to get Josh Harris again. Yes, I know those type players are hard to find. To me, that begs the question: Why are we running an offense that we can't expect to find the right players for to be truly succesful?

kdog27 · Post by **kdog27** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:35 pm

Flipper wrote:The offense was far more consistent and effective in 03 and 04 when we had a QB that functioned as a second RB. Omar was a less effective QB in 2005 (IMHO) primarily because he became less of a threat running the football.

Part of the reason we struggled so much more in 2005 IMO. In 2004 he was good at picking up yards when things broke down. He didn't have many designed runs but he would scramble and get decent yards. He had to at least have a few hundred yards and 4-5 TDS that year. In 2005 it was like they told him to never ever leave the pocket. That's when happy feet Omar became a problem. We became a much easier team to defend. Wisconsin figured that out in the second half as did pretty much everyone else.

daspollak · Post by **daspollak** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:42 pm

We also had better backs and receivers in 04. That goes a long way in the success of a QB. On one other note, we had a better O-line then too.

hammb · Post by **hammb** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:51 pm

kdog27 wrote:
Flipper wrote:The offense was far more consistent and effective in 03 and 04 when we had a QB that functioned as a second RB. Omar was a less effective QB in 2005 (IMHO) primarily because he became less of a threat running the football.
Part of the reason we struggled so much more in 2005 IMO. In 2004 he was good at picking up yards when things broke down. He didn't have many designed runs but he would scramble and get decent yards. He had to at least have a few hundred yards and 4-5 TDS that year. In 2005 it was like they told him to never ever leave the pocket. That's when happy feet Omar became a problem. We became a much easier team to defend. Wisconsin figured that out in the second half as did pretty much everyone else.

Personally, I don't think they told him not to run as much as somebody not associated with the team might have told him not to run. Going into that '05 season he was talked about as a potential first round draft pick. Wouldn't surprise me if somebody told him to go easy on the running to stay healthy for the draft. I still think he had made the decision to leave early before he took the first snap at Wisconsin.

FWIW:

Jacobs 2005 -- 40 carries, 62 yards, 1 TD
Jacobs 2004 -- 95 carries, 300 yards, 4 TD
Harris 2003 -- 215 carries, 830 yards, 13 TD
Harris 2002 -- 186 carries, 737 yards, 20 TD

Also, I don't necessarily agree with cowboyjoe. Yes, it's difficult to find a Josh Harris, he developed into a special player, but it is not especially difficult to find a dual threat capable QB. Those types of players are scattered all over the MAC & other non BCS schools. Heck we had 2 of them on the roster last year (Glaud & Brown). I know at one time we were in on Nate Davis too, but we backed off for academic reasons (colossal mistake).

It's not difficult to find the rush/pass threat combo QBs. Yeah, its tough to know which of them will become a Harris/Jacobs/Davis, but there are plenty of them out there and plenty of them end up at MAC level schools. I just don't think our coaching staff realizes how important that part of the skillset is to the offense. I think they got spoiled by Omar's pure passing style and are trying to duplicate that. That would be fine if we could find another Omar, but it's much more difficult to find a passing QB with his release & accuracy combo than it is to find a dual threat guy. And, as we've discussed here, even Omar wasn't as great when he became less of a rushing threat.

It really upsets me that we allowed Glaud to transfer rather than giving him another shot to win the starting job. It also royally SUCKS that Nate Brown couldn't get his act together in the classroom to stay eligible. I'm hopeful that we'll land a good dual threat QB in this recruiting class, but time will tell.

Jacobs4Heisman · Post by **Jacobs4Heisman** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:13 pm

The thing about Sheehan is, he's not even that pure of a passer. He's extremely accurate if his first read is available within 15 yards of the LOS. If he has to progress through his reads, or throw the deep ball, he struggles. When he gets out of rhythm, he struggles. When he's in rhythm, it's a beautiful thing to watch, though. He can catch fire at any time and become unstoppable.

If he were a better runner, some of those flaws would be glossed over.