Madlock still under suspension and Sims gone....

VDub26Falcon · Post by **VDub26Falcon** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 8:58 am

Oh Dusan...that kid was great...pretty funny too.

cw08 · Post by **cw08** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 11:17 am

Dakich ran off the best players on the team. Orr has run off two guys at the end of the bench. Good guys, I'm sure, but not that harmful to the state of the program.

able1 · Post by **able1** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 12:08 pm

I'm with you cw08, but my point was do we really know the full circumstances with either Dusan or Sims?
My understanding with Dusan was that he and Orr had a conversation and both agreed that it was time for him to move on. Who initiated the idea? I don't know. I could be totally wrong here, but that's basically how I recall it.
If a reason has been given for Sims yet, I'm not aware of it. We can only speculate that he left because he realized he wasn't going to be getting much PT.
I would hardly define either of those situations as running someone off.
Cowboyjoe seems hell bent on trying to prove to Dakich's critics that there's no difference between what happened when he was here vs now. 3-4 years down the road, if recruits leave at the rate they did when Dan was here and make it known that they don't like the coach and his system, then I'll agree. I liked Dakich when he first got here, but after so many seasons in a row of players leaving and openly complaining about him, the excuses got tiresome and it was time for a change.

Falconboy · Post by **Falconboy** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 12:14 pm

Sims was never going to amount to much for this team anyway. He was a undersized 2 guard who really couldn't create his own shot. His replacement will more than likely be a better fit for us.

BleedOrange · Post by **BleedOrange** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 2:41 pm

cw08 wrote:Dakich ran off the best players on the team. Orr has run off two guys at the end of the bench. Good guys, I'm sure, but not that harmful to the state of the program.

Orr, like every other effective coach on the planet, has occasional issues and discipline problems. So far, we've had two guys with no prospects for playing time leave the program.

To try to draw parallels between this and DD's constants problems is f'g stupid and its getting irritating. Enough.

cowboyjoe · Post by **cowboyjoe** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 4:14 pm

Occasional issues and discipline problems? He's barely been here a year and we have our two best players missing 3 games because of breaking team rules. I think we are going to see that Orr is as tough on his players as Dakich was as far as discipline goes. I am going to love it...hopefully everyone else will because they didn't when Dakich did those things.

hammb · Post by **hammb** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 4:27 pm

cowboyjoe wrote:Occasional issues and discipline problems? He's barely been here a year and we have our two best players missing 3 games because of breaking team rules. I think we are going to see that Orr is as tough on his players as Dakich was as far as discipline goes. I am going to love it...hopefully everyone else will because they didn't when Dakich did those things.

I don't think people had a problem with Dan's disciplining his players. Players SHOULD be disciplined when they screw up be it team issues or otherwise.

The problem we had with Dan was that he somehow created an environment where his players hated him. I know for a fact that he had players telling recruits not to come here. I know for a fact that he had players throwing a party the day he left for WVU, because they were happy to be rid of him. Our very own Joe Jakubowski had no interest in BG at all until Dakich was gone.

Dan's players didn't like or respect him very much. The result was that we had to reach on far too many recruits that didn't belong at the MAC level. Then the kids that had success here, and could get playing time elsewhere, started leaving left and right. The result was being left mostly with players whose choice was either staying at BG or not having a scholarship.

Discipline was not Dan Dakich's problem. I have no problem with discipline, in fact I'm a big fan of it. What I'm not a big fan of is when you cannot create a relationship with your players to make them see that discipline is necessary. All good coaches at all levels of all sports discipline their players. The good coaches, like a good parent, don't lose their players' respect in the process of disciplining them.

cw08 · Post by **cw08** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 6:28 pm

able1 wrote:I'm with you cw08, but my point was do we really know the full circumstances with either Dusan or Sims?
My understanding with Dusan was that he and Orr had a conversation and both agreed that it was time for him to move on. Who initiated the idea? I don't know. I could be totally wrong here, but that's basically how I recall it.
If a reason has been given for Sims yet, I'm not aware of it. We can only speculate that he left because he realized he wasn't going to be getting much PT.
I would hardly define either of those situations as running someone off.
Cowboyjoe seems hell bent on trying to prove to Dakich's critics that there's no difference between what happened when he was here vs now. 3-4 years down the road, if recruits leave at the rate they did when Dan was here and make it known that they don't like the coach and his system, then I'll agree. I liked Dakich when he first got here, but after so many seasons in a row of players leaving and openly complaining about him, the excuses got tiresome and it was time for a change.

Running off was a bad way to put it. Some guys leave because they don't fit a system. If the coach will grant them a clean release, then sometimes it's better for both parties.

Dakich apologists are pretty funny, though. When a coach hasn't had recent success, and his contract runs out, then why would you extend his deal? Especially since two of his best players left and had a ton of success in those few recent years in Wright and Lewis.
Orr has already exceeded expectations. An early suspension should have no bearing on your opinion of his guys.

BleedOrange · Post by **BleedOrange** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 7:30 pm

cowboyjoe wrote:Occasional issues and discipline problems? He's barely been here a year and we have our two best players missing 3 games because of breaking team rules. I think we are going to see that Orr is as tough on his players as Dakich was as far as discipline goes. I am going to love it...hopefully everyone else will because they didn't when Dakich did those things.

You continue to miss the point. The best response to you is to re-read this thread. Then, think about what happened during while Dakich was here and how his differed from other MAC programs.

BGSU33 · Post by **BGSU33** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:44 pm

Anyone know how the situation with Madlock is going?

eRichFalcon · Post by **eRichFalcon** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:18 am

I spoke to student-athlete from another sport (seems they all know each other) and someone else with a close relationship to the men's basketball program. It sounds like Madlock's problem is sort of a personal misconduct situation, but it doesn't sound like he's going to be invited back any time soon. The person I spoke with believed that he would be transferring.

BGSU33 · Post by **BGSU33** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:26 am

eRichFalcon wrote:I spoke to student-athlete from another sport (seems they all know each other) and someone else with a close relationship to the men's basketball program. It sounds like Madlock's problem is sort of a personal misconduct situation, but it doesn't sound like he's going to be invited back any time soon. The person I spoke with believed that he would be transferring.

Disappointing news if that's the case....but thanks for the info.

Globetrotter · Post by **Globetrotter** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:41 am

Another schollie for a big man....

http://ohiovarsity.rivals.com/viewprosp ... _key=76423

NWLB · Post by **NWLB** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:41 am

Cowboyjoe is becoming the Lee Corso of coaching issues. See his pick, bet long the other way!

Urban ran off dead wood and it was a good thing. DD did, and early-on it too was a good thing. But late in the game, DD was still losing players and it wasn't such an endearing quality. It was because the program had become a mess. Brandon lost tons of players, but unlike Urban, it was for the wrong reasons. You take these things in context, and at this point, Orr isn't sending any red flags up just yet.

BleedOrange · Post by **BleedOrange** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:25 pm

eRichFalcon wrote:I spoke to student-athlete from another sport (seems they all know each other) and someone else with a close relationship to the men's basketball program. It sounds like Madlock's problem is sort of a personal misconduct situation, but it doesn't sound like he's going to be invited back any time soon. The person I spoke with believed that he would be transferring.

Once again, we see stupid, self-destructive behavior in a young man and ask "WTF"?

Well, all I can offer is this: the prefrontal cortex is not fully developed until a person is in their mid 20's. The prefrontal cortex is the part of the brain responsible for judgment, planning, and self-moderation. From Wikipedia:

"This brain region has been implicated in planning complex cognitive behaviors, personality expression, decision making and moderating correct social behavior. The basic activity of this brain region is considered to be orchestration of thoughts and actions in accordance with internal goals."

This is the only way that I reconcile the incredibly stupid s**t that we see out of some of these kids. It's comforting to visualize Cameron at age 25 asking himself "my God, what was I thinking???"