Quit yer whining...we got another verbal (TE from IL)

1987alum · Post by **1987alum** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 3:33 pm

Flipper wrote:Waldron, Cole and Hood were RB's in high school. With RS soph QB Van Johnson has worked out at RB also.

This offense badly needs a TE that has the speed to get upfield. Hopefully, one of these guys will be that TE when 2005 or 2006 rolls around

Flip: I used to thin that we needed a TE that could go vertical, too. Now I'm not so sure. In that scenario, the TE is used to create mismatches. I think our three- and four-receiver sets do that already. A more athletic TE might create some options in short-yardage situations - i.e. play-action passing - I'm not sure it's a must-have, given our offense's style.

OptionQB · Post by **OptionQB** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 3:40 pm

Of the three you mentioned, Petey Hood is the only one still listed as a RB.

Melvin Cole and Nate Waldron are listed at DB on the roster and presumably the depth chart.

If adding a vertical TE to the offensive mix was a concern, I'm sure it would have been addressed by now. It appears that Newman and Reams are good enough athletes that they could be used to plug holes at LB or potential DE. I spoke with Reams at a recruiting tent before the Eastern game and he said "they recruited me to play tight end."

I would just like us to make more of an effort to compete for the top guys in the state and to address glaring needs.

Flipper · Post by **Flipper** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 3:49 pm

Throw the roster out when discussing who will play where next year. Guys can and will move a round as needed.

I stll think we need a TE that can get upfield because it adds an element of unpredicatbilty that can open up things for the running and passing game.

The TE I'm describing is like an athletic LB with size or a DT that has size and mobility, there aren't many of them out there for MAC schools... so no, option, I don't think we would have necessarily addressed that already if we felt it was a need. Guys like Nick Thurman and Steve Navarro might have been the one to fill that spot, but for various reasons.....

OptionQB · Post by **OptionQB** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 3:55 pm

So why wouldn't we address a need? I just don't understand that one . . . And as far as throwing out the roster, granted people will leave (transfers/academics) and others will join (NSD) but you have to have a basis of where your basic holes are and right now we have needs at a young RB and most obviously DB unless they allow Dozier, Waldron, Goodwin and Co. to compete for spots . . .

Flipper · Post by **Flipper** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 4:07 pm

I think we've tried to address it (i.e. Navarro and Thurman) but those guys are rare players...just because you look for them, it doesn't mean you'll find them. How many teams in the NFL bitch about finding the ideal RB for the west coast offense. They all want to find a guy who can run and catch, but they seldom find him. The Lions have been looking for a WCO RB for three years (they've also been looking for a rush DE, a WIL and FS, but what the hell...)

Waldron and Hood may be listed at DB and they may stay there. That doesn't preclude them from being moved to RB as needed...they haven't even played a down here yet. Dan Macon was a LB until fall practice. In other words, I just don't think you can rely on what the roster says when you're talking about kids who haven't seen the field yet

Granted, I'd prefer to see Hood at CB because he has the size and speed to shut down the 6ft plus guys that are showing up in the MAC, but it's not my call to make.

While we're at it, I don't have a problem with taking the RS off of Winovich. He's been great on special teams and that's an integral part of the game.

orangeandbrown · Post by **orangeandbrown** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 4:12 pm

Well, Option wasn't the only one whining about recruiting, although he is taking the brunt of blame for it.

Seems like disagreement over agreement. The RBs is a good example. I don't think you recruit to fill a need that's occuring next year, because oftentimes FR aren't ready to step in, and you have to find a pretty good one (especially at DB) to contribute as a true freshmen. So you are really looking two and maybe three years down the road, and its true, its hard to tell what shape RBs are in for us then.

But I don't think we can count on brining in a DB who improves on our guys right away.

I always like to see us stockpile talented players across the board as much as possible, so all position groups have at least some seniors each year, but you do the best you can with the talent that's available.

OptionQB · Post by **OptionQB** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 4:24 pm

I think we are arguing the same point in different ways, which happens quite a bit with the tenor that people take my posts.

Hood always has been listed at RB
Macon has been listed at RB for a lot longer than the preseason
Waldron has always been listed at DB
Cole was listed at RB his Freshmen year and then switched to DB this year after Petey signed or worked out in the preseason . . .

I'm not saying that we will automatically go out and find a kid that is going to be a shut down corner and play in Camp Randall next year. What I am saying is that those types of guys are available if we would make more of an effort to go and get them. Ohio in D-1 and D-3 are especially loaded with talented players this year . . . just b/c the kid is waiting until Feb 2 for tOSU to offer doesn't mean that we have to wait that long to show interest as well. I realize that not all recruiting sites pick up the interest levels of every kid, so perhaps we are making a better effort, but when recruits like Antraz Burton leave for an opportunity to play right away, you have to wonder what the message is that the recruits are getting. Come here and sit b/c these guys have started for two years or come in and compete and we'll see what happens b/c the redshirt is always there so you can have an opportunity to play four years.

Flipper · Post by **Flipper** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 4:30 pm

Hood was slotted as a db from day one, I recall them saying he could compete at rb, but I think the intention was always to make him a DB.

Anyway, you're right...we probably agree more than disagree. I don't think we send the message that freshmen don't play because a veteran is there. RS FR Deaudre Perry won the starting job over SR TJ Carswell at one safety and Winovich and Mack and a couple others saw time as true freshmen.

The thing we have to be careful about with Burton is that we're hearing his side of it and only his side of it. Even after the signing date, I doubt you'll hear much talk from the coaches about it because it doesn't seem to be their MO to talk about kids who went somewhere else.

Falconboy · Post by **Falconboy** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 5:23 pm

Thats where we're missing the boat here. We are so thin at the DT position its not funny. With Leiniger now suspended permenantly , we should be recruiting DT's hard this year. And for the life of me I can't still can't understand why we have not a single DT on some these lists you guys have been putting out albeit imcomplete ones. Unless there's some guys out there that nobody knows about yet. Frankly, I'm also surprised we haven't landed a stud big reciver somewhere with Omar returning and 3 receivers leaving and with the way we throw the ball here.

GO BG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BGGrad01 · Post by **BGGrad01** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 6:33 pm

Javon Ringer (Dayton C-J), former teammate of Anthony Turner, committed to Michigan State today. I know he put up huge numbers in the first couple weeks of the high school season and is one of the top 15 or so RB's in the country. 1 questions -- Do we actively pursue guys rated so highly or do we merely assume that OSU will get them? If we don't pursue them, I think we're making a big mistake. Obviously, I think we could have had a chance head-to-head against MSU for this kid, since I think OSU had backed out due to grade questions.

1987alum · Post by **1987alum** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 8:00 pm

Interesting. You'd think with Turner in the fold, we'd have something of an inside track on a kid like this.

orangeandbrown · Post by **orangeandbrown** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 8:03 pm

Hmm. Well, the number of times we actually beat a Big 10 team to somebody they wanted is a very, very small number. Even the ones we know about are ones where we don't know the whole story. For example, did academic issues warn Iowa and Minnesota off Turner and Robinson, for example.

Option's right. We need to be in people's ear so if OSU drops off them, we can pick up the pieces.

But if a kid has a chance to play in the Big 10, he's not going to come here just to play with Anthony Turner.[/b]

1987alum · Post by **1987alum** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 8:06 pm

orangeandbrown wrote:Hmm. Well, the number of times we actually beat a Big 10 team to somebody they wanted is a very, very small number. Even the ones we know about are ones where we don't know the whole story. For example, did academic issues warn Iowa and Minnesota off Turner and Robinson, for example.

Option's right. We need to be in people's ear so if OSU drops off them, we can pick up the pieces.

But if a kid has a chance to play in the Big 10, he's not going to come here just to play with Anthony Turner.

That's not what I was trying to say. I was just saying the fact that he was a teammate of Turner's should have put us in the running; I would assume, maybe incorrectly, that Turner would given the coaches a heads up on the kid. Sure, if the kid can go to a Big 10 school and believes he'll actually get a shot, I don't begrudge him that. I just think that we need to put ourselves in the hunt.

Omar's a good example. Everyone assumed he was going to K-State. If the BG staff didn't keep its radar up, the kid would have ended up at - gulp! - Buffalo, apparently the only other school that kept in contact.

Flipper · Post by **Flipper** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 8:19 pm

From everything I've read about Ringer, it looked like he wanted to be a buckeye very badly. If that fell through, he wanted to stay in the Big 10.

OptionQB · Post by **OptionQB** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 12:08 am

Knowing an Administrator on an tOSU board, it seems that they are waiting for first semester grades and an ACT to offer Javon anything. It doesn't help matters that Maurice Wells, a top 5 RB prospect from Florida is down to Ga. Tech or Ohio State. Wells took an official visit for the UM game.

I don't think that Javon to tOSU is completely dead, he's just trying to speed up the process and I can't say that I blame him if that's what he wants.

On the other hand, I believe DT is one of the areas that have been addressed along with OL.

Andrew Campbell was a big find for the coaching staff as was Brandon Curtis and Nick Davis. Don't forget that we still get Brad Williams, Mike Thaler and Monty Cooley back for another go around too. I'm not so sure that our talent is bad or needs improved on the D Line, rather I think it is a technique and fundamental change that is needed overall on the defensive side.

Our DBs can't read routes to save their live, the LBs take such piss poor tackling angles and our DL gets in awful position too many times. Not to mention how many times we go for the cute ball strip rather than breaking down and making a fundamental tackle. It's not as exciting or sexy, but it's much more effective.

And I hate to be a pain in the ass, but . . .

28 Edwin Hood RB 5-10 185 FR/FR Toledo, Ohio/Whitmer . . .

That comes straight from the roster . . . he is listed as a RB!

Quit yer whining...we got another verbal (TE from IL)

We need DT's DT's DT's DT's DT's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!