Cartwright: Mid-April target for BGSU cuts

Falcon Fanatic · Post by **Falcon Fanatic** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 8:54 pm

http://www.sent-trib.com/index.php?opti ... &Itemid=81

tiznow · Post by **tiznow** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 8:56 pm

Christopher's comments regarding the hockey program are not very positve for the futrure.

pdt1081 · Post by **pdt1081** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:15 pm

Greg Christopher wrote:“The tradition and history of the program speaks for itself,” Christopher said. “Hockey is important to the community, to the alumni, and to the university,”
Christopher told the Sentinel in March 2007 that “hockey is one of the sports we can compete on a national level. You look at the teams which have competed in the Frozen Four and we can compete with those teams. Hockey is very important, but we have to make it a priority and give them the sources to be successful.”
Asked Friday if he still believed that, Christopher said: “I do believe if BGSU had the resources and was able to fund hockey, we could be competitive at a national level. But right now, that’s not how the program is wired.”

And just who the hell "wires" the program? Sorry, that quote pissed me off to no end.

MooneyRich86 · Post by **MooneyRich86** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 11:19 pm

That's the main problem. They have and will purposefully leave hockey to
twist in the wind. Truly "pathetic" individuals. Not a "spine" to be found.

NWLB · Post by **NWLB** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 11:54 pm

I have heard the hockey budget, which excludes facility costs of course, comes in at just shy of $1,000,000. If the budget is 25% to 30% less than the Big Ten/Notre Dame level schools, to fully fund just the program itself, you are looking at $1,300,000 per year. At present the program is said to run about $750,000 under water. So we are looking at needing to boost funding by $1,000,000 per year at least. If you figure you can do more with less, and lord knows that is the motto of BGSU Athletics, things have to get to at least an even keel.

If you can sell 3,000 season ticket packages at $200 each, you can close most of the deficit at the outset. I think that is the first, best way to begin. Without a solid ticket base, you can't keep people engaged, and the ticket sales might well aid in getting more bodies in the seats, which helps everything.

At this stage we at a point where raw cash is needed to stop the bleeding. But the grants-in-aid have to be endowed. That is too much to pay-off quickly unless you have massive money that isn't likely to be found. So it is a long-term issue.

The physical plant needs work, and again, we have a big-ticket issue, that has to be secondary to finding the most likely way to secure the bottom line now and for several years hence.

The way the program is "wired" right now, isn't going to sustain hockey for the long-term. No question. And an argument that will be made, if somebody is playing devils advocate, is that the program has to be cut, because even with private donations, the best that can be hoped for is a stalemate. Meaning in short, the best keeping it a year or two will do, is to hold the line and achieve nothing.

To combat that, the counter must be that the institution has failed hockey in the first place. The guardians of the program, meaning the AD, president, and related subordinates, have not raised the alarm in plain terms sooner. The fans may not be showing because of the state of the program, be it the facility, coach, and/or results on the ice. But at no point were any fans living with the thought the program itself was in danger. Given the history of the fans to rally to the program, more than basketball even, it would be unfair and premature to assume no support exists.

But for support to be effective, from a group of people who are not the exact same type as football or basketball fans, in boosting a program that operates with a vastly different setup from any other sport, time is needed.

Based on the basic numbers, I think you can close the budget gap that has existed, with a hard fought rally by the fans. Yet even then, we may be asked for more. If the budget at athletics were to be cut by 20%, then you have to boost the bottom line by as much.

In any case, the University and Athletics must truly partner with the community, and do so in a way I don't think I've seen in my years here. And I don't mean I want to be told to go donate more to Falcon Club and designate it to hockey. I want every bloody dime going to hockey.

MACMAN · Post by **MACMAN** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:58 am

IT is ridiculous to think for even one min that BGSU needs a D1a football program. The NCAA has done nothing to regulate the sport and create any kind of parity or fair chance for competition. Football should Drop from 1a BGSU is not a football school and never will be anything more than substandard team in a slave conference of other rejects. Just look at what the program produces? More criminals than professional athletes, and I would venture to say if you comp the numbers of general success stories your going to see hockey and basketball way out on top of football.
Bowling Green is hockey. Should the University made the injection of cash in to the hockey program as it did the football, we might well have been at the Joe this year.

Changes do need to be made, and they deal with supporting what makes sense and that is hockey.
For that woman to say that even if we get the money for hockey it may be the end of the program is crap.
This woman needs to go and all those considering drooping the program need to go as well as they have no grasp on what works and what needs to be done.

Bleeding Orange · Post by **Bleeding Orange** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:22 am

MACMAN wrote:IT is ridiculous to think for even one min that BGSU needs a D1a football program. The NCAA has done nothing to regulate the sport and create any kind of parity or fair chance for competition. Football should Drop from 1a BGSU is not a football school and never will be anything more than substandard team in a slave conference of other rejects. Just look at what the program produces? More criminals than professional athletes, and I would venture to say if you comp the numbers of general success stories your going to see hockey and basketball way out on top of football.
Bowling Green is hockey. Should the University made the injection of cash in to the hockey program as it did the football, we might well have been at the Joe this year.

Changes do need to be made, and they deal with supporting what makes sense and that is hockey.
For that woman to say that even if we get the money for hockey it may be the end of the program is crap.
This woman needs to go and all those considering drooping the program need to go as well as they have no grasp on what works and what needs to be done.

Oh my...you truly are as crazy as I have always thought. I could spend the next five minutes poking gaping holes in every insane assertion that you have made here, but really, why waste the time? I mean, I could just as well be banging my head in my front door, and my time would probably be more effectively spent.

I will only make two points:

1. What was the first year BG started playing football?
2. Did anything of significance happen in 1959? Yeah...we have another NC in football, and one in gymnastics. That is three total, if you're counting - and at this point, I'm not sure that you are capable of comprehending such a large number.

I didn't think any divergence of this magnitude was possible, but this forum has gotten infinitely more idiotic than normal. Yes, hockey is a big part of BGSU. But so is every other sport that this university has participated in, and many of them for decades before hockey was ever even thought of at this school.

It is idiots like you, MACMAN, who are going to do BG hockey in, and quite frankly it is getting to the point where people like you deserve it.

BGDrew · Post by **BGDrew** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:31 am

Bleeding Orange wrote:It is idiots like you, MACMAN, who are going to do BG hockey in, and quite frankly it is getting to the point where people like you deserve it.

Don't forget about the 24 student athletes who may have their dreams crushed, the hundreds of alumni, and thousands of fans who will lose one of the true loves in their lives.

Yep, we deserve that.

Bleeding Orange · Post by **Bleeding Orange** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:46 am

BGDrew wrote:
Bleeding Orange wrote:It is idiots like you, MACMAN, who are going to do BG hockey in, and quite frankly it is getting to the point where people like you deserve it.
Don't forget about the 24 student athletes who may have their dreams crushed, the hundreds of alumni, and thousands of fans who will lose one of the true loves in their lives.

Yep, we deserve that.

That is all great, but if you truly want to start a meaningful movement, then you need to publicly humiliate people like MACMAN, and excommunicate them from your movement. All they are doing is making you, the thoughtful, well-intended people, look like spineless incompetents, and I know that is simply not the case. There has just been too much of this 'this is important and that isn't' garbage populating all of these arguments for saving Falcon hockey, and not just here at AZZ.com.

As tough as all of this is, the fact remains that there are hard fiscal times at BGSU for numerous disparate reasons that have been growing for years. Those of us (myself VERY much include) who want Falcon hockey to be around forever need to understand that, in this climate, we are asking for some big things from the administration right now, whether the causes of our current circumstances were fair or not. And most of them weren't fair to this program. Yes, we are all very, very angry that we are at this point, but there are constructive ways to deal with it, and there are destructive ways to deal with it. That is all I am trying to get at.

There is that old saw: "We get the government that we deserve." Well, depending upon how you, as a leader of this movement (and I commend you for taking on the role) handle it's message, you - and we - are going to get the decision that we deserve.

MACMAN · Post by **MACMAN** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:04 am

You really are sadly les Erudite than you belive.
In no way is it ever going to be humanly possible for football to jack. Its a fact, there is no way, its a huge drain. The program and quite frankly the whole of the MAC, do not belong day dreaming about the elected championships that will never come.s
1. 1919
2. to remotely think that 1959 football and football world is anyway comparable to even the lay of the football world from the 70;s is just crazy.
what schools have won NC in football since 1970?
AGAIN there is no reasonable reason for BGSU to participate in D1 football. There is especially no reason for BGSU to participate in D1 football if they think they even have a remote chance of just apearing in not just the "championship game" but any of the near "championship" games.
3. Since 1970 how many NFL starters has BG produced? The MAC? NHL BGSU, the CCHA?
4. What would really be lost if BGSU played down in football?
5. What do think BGSU's odds are making any of the following:
The outback bowl, Rose Bowl, Fiesta , Orange, cotton or sugar? NCAA sweet 16, 8 4 in mens or womens basket ball, and of course the frozen four in hockey.
Truth is for BGSU a great football season would be to win the MACC. For basketball man 8 is killer. For hockey to make the frozen 4 would be something. But in recent history it did not have to be that way, we could have been and should be a hockey powerhouse still to this day, but this death anchor of d1 football dreams is drowning not just football, but basket ball and even baseball.

Oh my...you truly are as crazy as I have always thought. I could spend the next five minutes poking gaping holes in every insane assertion that you have made here, but really, why waste the time? I mean, I could just as well be banging my head in my front door, and my time would probably be more effectively spent.

I will only make two points:

1. What was the first year BG started playing football?
2. Did anything of significance happen in 1959? Yeah...we have another NC in football, and one in gymnastics. That is three total, if you're counting - and at this point, I'm not sure that you are capable of comprehending such a large number.

I didn't think any divergence of this magnitude was possible, but this forum has gotten infinitely more idiotic than normal. Yes, hockey is a big part of BGSU. But so is every other sport that this university has participated in, and many of them for decades before hockey was ever even thought of at this school.

It is idiots like you, MACMAN, who are going to do BG hockey in, and quite frankly it is getting to the point where people like you deserve it.[/quote]

BGDrew · Post by **BGDrew** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:04 am

This University just raised $146 million to get us over the hump for the next 100 years. This shouldn't even be an issue right now with that much fundraising. This administration looks at hockey as a red headed stepchild and it's been that way for almost 2 decades.

I'm still pretty disappointed in you're view you feel the need to "publicly humiliate" anyone, let alone someone who's supported this program a lot longer than you and I have been associated with it. I don't agree with a lot of what he says, but he's still a true fan with misguided views.

MACMAN · Post by **MACMAN** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:12 am

Bleeding Orange wrote:
BGDrew wrote:
Bleeding Orange wrote:It is idiots like you, MACMAN, who are going to do BG hockey in, and quite frankly it is getting to the point where people like you deserve it.
Don't forget about the 24 student athletes who may have their dreams crushed, the hundreds of alumni, and thousands of fans who will lose one of the true loves in their lives.

Yep, we deserve that.
That is all great, but if you truly want to start a meaningful movement, then you need to publicly humiliate people like MACMAN, and excommunicate them from your movement. All they are doing is making you, the thoughtful, well-intended people, look like spineless incompetents, and I know that is simply not the case. There has just been too much of this 'this is important and that isn't' garbage populating all of these arguments for saving Falcon hockey, and not just here at AZZ.com.

As tough as all of this is, the fact remains that there are hard fiscal times at BGSU for numerous disparate reasons that have been growing for years. Those of us (myself VERY much include) who want Falcon hockey to be around forever need to understand that, in this climate, we are asking for some big things from the administration right now, whether the causes of our current circumstances were fair or not. And most of them weren't fair to this program. Yes, we are all very, very angry that we are at this point, but there are constructive ways to deal with it, and there are destructive ways to deal with it. That is all I am trying to get at.

There is that old saw: "We get the government that we deserve." Well, depending upon how you, as a leader of this movement (and I commend you for taking on the role) handle it's message, you - and we - are going to get the decision that we deserve.

To not look at the football program honestly and fairly as part of this cutting the fat process is not acceptable, or even reasonable, the University could and would do equally well in a lower football conference, likely even better, what we dont need is some one like you who just doesnt see the realities.

MACMAN · Post by **MACMAN** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:26 am

BGDrew wrote:This University just raised $146 million to get us over the hump for the next 100 years. This shouldn't even be an issue right now with that much fund raising. This administration looks at hockey as a red headed stepchild and it's been that way for almost 2 decades.

I'm still pretty disappointed in you're view you feel the need to "publicly humiliate" anyone, let alone someone who's supported this program a lot longer than you and I have been associated with it. I don't agree with a lot of what he says, but he's still a true fan with misguided views.

Please they are not misguided views, violent at times, "visionary" at others...
We do need to look at these leader and give some careful consideration to their elimination, this move on hockey is unwarranted and unjustified in many perspectives, just as is leaving a football drop out of the mix.

I can guarantee one thing, if hockey goes I will never step foot on that campus again, never purchase or support anything that is done by BGSU again, I will never recommend that any attend. There will be to many better alternatives, and judging by the stance being made by the leader of the Ponderosa before she even meets with any of these former players, coaches and alumni who know how to save it, SHE DOENST WANT IT SAVED, and thats where I got my beef from tonight! When folks are working in earnest to save something like this and doing what they can and trying gain better perspective on it, and you read her crap ass quote about even if we do come with the money she wont guarantee we can keep it...that is just nefarious and you all know it. She is trying to prevent folks from even trying and thats not right, a good President would be very receptive and welcoming of these efforts. She is actually outwardly voicing that she is working against this effort.
There is just so much that is wrong with that....

pdt1081 · Post by **pdt1081** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:55 am

NWLB wrote:I have heard the hockey budget, which excludes facility costs of course, comes in at just shy of $1,000,000. If the budget is 25% to 30% less than the Big Ten/Notre Dame level schools, to fully fund just the program itself, you are looking at $1,300,000 per year. At present the program is said to run about $750,000 under water. So we are looking at needing to boost funding by $1,000,000 per year at least. If you figure you can do more with less, and lord knows that is the motto of BGSU Athletics, things have to get to at least an even keel.

I have been told the Hockey team's budget is about $750,000. That's what the Athletic Department kicks in. How accurate that number is, I don't know, just what I've been told. The Athletic Department doesn't budget for running the Ice Arena. Funny how it seems the Hockey Team's budget is almost equal to the amount of money that the entire Athletic Department lost...

NWLB · Post by **NWLB** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:32 am

MACMAN wrote:IT is ridiculous to think for even one min that BGSU needs a D1a football program. The NCAA has done nothing to regulate the sport and create any kind of parity or fair chance for competition. Football should Drop from 1a BGSU is not a football school and never will be anything more than substandard team in a slave conference of other rejects. Just look at what the program produces? More criminals than professional athletes, and I would venture to say if you comp the numbers of general success stories your going to see hockey and basketball way out on top of football.
Bowling Green is hockey. Should the University made the injection of cash in to the hockey program as it did the football, we might well have been at the Joe this year.

Changes do need to be made, and they deal with supporting what makes sense and that is hockey.
For that woman to say that even if we get the money for hockey it may be the end of the program is crap.
This woman needs to go and all those considering drooping the program need to go as well as they have no grasp on what works and what needs to be done.

MAC, football is not on the table, nor should it be, anymore than basketball for either men or women. And every second wasted on trying to put forward an utterly hopeless argument that maybe it could or should be dropped down a division hurts the effort to save hockey.