Amstutz reprimanded for tape fiasco

orangeandbrown · Post by **orangeandbrown** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 9:08 am

Conference reprimands Amstutz for the tape event. Really...its one thing to say you forgot to put the dub the play onto a reel....but deleting it from the script...gosh, that was an act of commission.

All this to beat EMU. What an embarassment.

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dl ... /412220399

bgsuman · Post by **bgsuman** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 9:12 am

My opinion on this "tape Exchanging":

I think it's rather lame to mandate such a thing. Why cant teams just research on their own terms/times. But wait, maybe I am confused....I guess this is the best/only(?) way to watch a game the other team had played previously...

Still it seems kind of lame to me...here ya go here is our game we played, like you know nothing about our team...

maybe it's just me..

BGSU Falconz · Post by **BGSU Falconz** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 9:15 am

bgsuman wrote:My opinion on this "tape Exchanging":

I think it's rather lame to mandate such a thing. Why cant teams just research on their own terms/times. But wait, maybe I am confused....I guess this is the best/only(?) way to watch a game the other team had played previously...

Still it seems kind of lame to me...here ya go here is our game we played, like you know nothing about our team...

maybe it's just me..

I agree. I think it should be up to the opposing team to do the research. I don't believe in handing the opposing coaching staff a tape and saying "here, watch this to learn how to beat us"

Rightupinthere · Post by **Rightupinthere** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 9:15 am

Sheesh.

The script was written AFTER the tape was compiled - probably by another set of grad assts. If they don't see it, they don't record it. Now, I may be incorrect since I'm not very knowledgable in regards to the tape compiling process. But it would appear to follow some logical chronology.

I HIGHLY doubt there was intention to decieve. I believe it to be human error and nothing more.

I want to disbelieve it, but I beginning to feel there may be some Rocket Fixation on this here board. What would Fraud say?

Lord_Byron · Post by **Lord_Byron** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 9:21 am

bgsuman wrote:My opinion on this "tape Exchanging":

I think it's rather lame to mandate such a thing. Why cant teams just research on their own terms/times. But wait, maybe I am confused....I guess this is the best/only(?) way to watch a game the other team had played previously...

Still it seems kind of lame to me...here ya go here is our game we played, like you know nothing about our team...

maybe it's just me..

Tape exchanging is a tried and true part of the football landscape from the pros down to the high school level.

The intent of it is to save the expense of sending tape crews to all your opponients games, and to save the logistics of the home team having to accomodate 12 tape crews at every game.

It makes sense, and all teams need to abide by it ethically to make it work.

Warthog · Post by **Warthog** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 9:52 am

Two comments:

1. The MAC bans live scouting. To me, this would be the single best way to handle it. But, that is not the case. So we have to deal with the rules as they are.

2. I do not want to accuse anyone of wrong doing without knowing all the facts. BUT... The UT video coordinator says he did not know whether a fake punt is a special teams or offensive play so he didn't know what tape to put it on. LAME EXCUSE!!! My eight year old daughter would know that a fake punt is a special teams play. And then mysteriously, the fake punt play IS included in the special teams tape that UT kept for themselves. This shows a knowing intention to deceive.

Given all this, UT obviously intended to provide inaccurate information. Was this vital to the outcome of the game on the field? I doubt it. but schools should not be able to get away with intentoinal deception. Making them forfiet the game seems way too steep, but I don't know the appropriate penalty that could be enforced for something like this. Maybe they should have to give up a scholarship or two? :shrug:

orangeandbrown · Post by **orangeandbrown** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 9:52 am

For those who think tape exchanges are lame, what, exactly, do you feel the alternative is, especially since the league bans live scouting.

bgsuman · Post by **bgsuman** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 9:55 am

orangeandbrown wrote:For those who think tape exchanges are lame, what, exactly, do you feel the alternative is, especially since the league bans live scouting.

well that's even lamer(is that a word?) So , someone cant go to a game and take notes then report those notes back to a coach??

I guess there really isn't an alternative and that's why I questioned my own comments in my original post of the lameness...so tape exchange away I guess!

Warthog · Post by **Warthog** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 9:56 am

orangeandbrown wrote:For those who think tape exchanges are lame, what, exactly, do you feel the alternative is, especially since the league bans live scouting.

Personally, I think live scouting would be best. That way each team is responsible for their own scouting and cannot come up with any excuses.

But since the MAC has banned that, I would suggest a third party private contractor be hired to video all games and prepare all game tapes without bias. The video coordinator postion at each school could be downgraded to a grad asst or something and the money saved there could be used to pay a portion of the contractors fees.

orangeandbrown · Post by **orangeandbrown** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 9:59 am

Wart, that's not a bad idea. I don't think the teams would want to live scout even if they could...they'd still want to be able to watch tape....over and over and over.

TG1996 · Post by **TG1996** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 10:04 am

orangeandbrown wrote:Wart, that's not a bad idea. I don't think the teams would want to live scout even if they could...they'd still want to be able to watch tape....over and over and over.

exactly. With so much that goes on on EVERY play, with each individual position needing as much detail as they can get on EVERY play, it would take a heck of a scouting crew, and probably a sketch artist to do it justice.

Warthog · Post by **Warthog** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 10:05 am

I agree that some coaches just LOVE to watch game films!

Another thought that just occurred to me was that teams only exchange films from their most recent game. If you use a third party, seems like it would be easier to build more of a library of game films and teams could have access to an opponents whole season. Not that you would want to watch 30 hours of film a week toward the end of the season, but I think it would be easier to pick up tendencies and stuff. You could search for "situations" and see what plays teams liked to run then. Like go through the script and find all plays for "Third down and less than 3" and see what your opponent ran then.

orangeandbrown · Post by **orangeandbrown** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 11:25 am

Wart, I agree. PLUS, I can't believe these guys still use tape! Digital would allow searching for those 3-3 left hash marks deals a lot easier.

BGFan · Post by **BGFan** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 1:09 pm

Rightupinthere wrote:Sheesh.

The script was written AFTER the tape was compiled - probably by another set of grad assts. If they don't see it, they don't record it. Now, I may be incorrect since I'm not very knowledgable in regards to the tape compiling process. But it would appear to follow some logical chronology.

I HIGHLY doubt there was intention to decieve. I believe it to be human error and nothing more.

I want to disbelieve it, but I beginning to feel there may be some Rocket Fixation on this here board. What would Fraud say?

One specific, key play missing from the tape and you believe it was an accident?

It was also missing from the continuous coverage tape....coincidence?

kdog27 · Post by **kdog27** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 1:25 pm

"University of Toledo head football coach Tom Amstutz and video coordinator Chris Binder have been formally reprimanded by Mid-American Conference commissioner Rick Chryst "

What exactly does this mean? Are they going make Tom run a mile or two? Are they going to fine him $10000? If they fine him the real loser here would be the donut industry.
Anyway I think it is pretty poor sportsmanship to be running fake punts when you are up by 18 points, but that is just me.