I think the numbers 6-10, 7-9, 7-9, 11-5, 5-10 have as much to do with Belichick being shown the door as anything he might have said about Kosar.dstubb wrote: We ran Bellicheck out of town because he dissed Bernie, and he has two Super Bowls. We ran Model out and he has a ring.
That same organization moved to Baltimore and won a Super Bowl.TG1996 wrote: I think the numbers 6-10, 7-9, 7-9, 11-5, 5-10 have as much to do with Belichick being shown the door as anything he might have said about Kosar.
A pissing match in which Modell's side was rarely heard. Mike White was as much to blame for the move as Modell was. Then there's Al Lerner, who was on the stage with Modell in Baltimore when they announced the move, and everyone thinks he's a saint because he brought the team back to Cleveland after helping Modell take the original team to Baltimore.TG1996 wrote: And Modell did as much to get himself run out of town as anybody did to run him out. It was a pissing match that, even to hear that bastard tell it, nobody won.
Four years later and without Belichick. There's a big difference in ANY franchise over a four year span, no matter if they stay in the same city or not or whatever.dstubb wrote: That same organization moved to Baltimore and won a Super Bowl.
Agreed that Michael White came out of the whole deal initially looking like the victim, but was, as you put it, just as much to blame for it all. Though I really wonder if they would have done less pissing and more negotiating what would have come of it.A pissing match in which Modell's side was rarely heard. Mike White was as much to blame for the move as Modell was. Then there's Al Lerner, who was on the stage with Modell in Baltimore when they announced the move, and everyone thinks he's a saint because he brought the team back to Cleveland after helping Modell take the original team to Baltimore.
Regardless...it's obvious what Belichick can do with the right personnel.
There's a difference between loyalty to your alma mater and loyalty to a professional sports organization.TG1996 wrote: Either way, I'll never stop being a fan. The pain may seem unbearable at times, but the reward will be that much sweeter. (If you don't believe a reward is in the future, did you think, in 1998 or so, that BG would be in, and win, back to back bowl games in the next 6 years? It's all about faith for the teams you love.)
100% agreed. It's been horrible at times to look at the decisions this franchise has made, either with player selection, or giving Bootch the keys to the lakefront. The two stories that kill me still are one rumor/truth that the Browns staff had Richard Seymour as the best available when their pick came up in 2001(?), yet Bootch pulled rank and drafted Gerard "Pocket Change" Warren instead. And, with an offense that couldn't move the ball down hill with a running start in their first year (except for a win against the Steelers. HA!dstubb wrote:
There's a difference between loyalty to your alma mater and loyalty to a professional sports organization.
I have always been a fan, will always be a fan. Yet I am amazed at the depths this organization has sunk. Too many slick talkers (Carmon Policy & his mafia from San Fran) and not enough patience (the firing of Chris Palmer and the rushing of Tim Couch into the starting role), poor talent evaluation (need I mention any names?), and way too much trust in someone who's never been an NFL head coach (Butch Davis). The club has reaped what it sowed. They need people with patience, who can build a team from the ground up, can evaluate talent, and have some checks and balaces within the team management.
), they take Courtney Brown. Now alot of that, admittedly, is hind sight since they had a crappy defense, too, but after watching Shaun Alexander go nuts in the Orange Bowl that year, he was just SCREAMING to be taken in that draft. Alas, they stuck with Jamel White (and Travis Prentice and Errict Rhett, of course), and aside from flashes of brilliance from Green and Suggs (who will be a stud if he can stay healthy and hold onto the damn ball!), they still don't have a running game. Alexander has been pretty decent in Seattle, I'd say. Of course, that gets into the whole chicken vs. egg argument with the crappy offensive line the Browns have had for years now. It's going to take alot of rebuilding, but I still have faith that SOMEDAY good things will come. Even in a 3-13 season, its alot better seeing the Browns on the field than that stretch from 96-98 with nothing to look forward to on Sundays.Courtney was absolutely the right pick there, IMO. If I would've drafted, I would've taken Brown without a doubt. There was no way in hell that they would've taken Shaun Alexander.TG1996 wrote:. And, with an offense that couldn't move the ball down hill with a running start in their first year (except for a win against the Steelers. HA!
. That list was Peter Warrick, Chris Samuels, Lavar Arrington, and Courtney Brown. All had been as dominant as could be in college. Warrick dropped to the bottom of the list with poor pre-draft workouts, but Courtney and Lavar wowed the scouts with their workouts and were the surefire #1 & #2. Courtney turned in a 4.48 40 yard dash at something like 280 pounds which was just sick. Combine the physical freak of nature with his total dominance at PSU (something like 17 or 18 sacks his senior year), and his continued health he was a GREAT pick at #1...apparently. 
