The season ended Cavs thread...and NBA discussion in general

[Warthog]

I'm one of the fans of the city of Cleveland who really doesn't give a rat's @ss since I'm no fan of professional sports. I usually get mad when a business leaves town or when a Cleveland loses something which truly makes this city great [the Cleveland Ballet comes to mind.] Losing a brainless jock doesn't define a city.

I think you are failing to recognize the economic impact this will have on the city of Cleveland. $300,000,000 is the estimate. This isn't just about professional sports. This one goes way deeper than that.

I've discounted nothing. I've reviewed those numbers and find them illogical. I believe they assume that there would be NO downtown traffic should LeBron leave.

I stand by my words. It's takes more than a single person to make or break the city.

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index ... worth.html

Here's the story I was using as a source. Tell me what part of that is illogical.

[NWLB]

He sees himself as a national brand, and he is. Going to a New York makes him a national brand name.

I can name that contradiction in two sentences. How can he become and name brand if he already is a name brand?

First he was going to announce his decision through members of his website and now it's going to be an hour of TV. It's almost as if his decisions are being made by 25 year old kids.

Oh, that's right, they are.

There is one thing I know, when it comes to ego and a person's management of it, nothing appears to make sense.

I'm one of the fans of the city of Cleveland who really doesn't give a rat's @ss since I'm no fan of professional sports. I usually get mad when a business leaves town or when a Cleveland loses something which truly makes this city great [the Cleveland Ballet comes to mind.] Losing a brainless jock doesn't define a city.

Depends on what "is" means, but we aren't supposed to talk about politics.

He sees himself as a national brand, and going to New York fits that more than staying in Cleveland.

[hammb]

I'm one of the fans of the city of Cleveland who really doesn't give a rat's @ss since I'm no fan of professional sports. I usually get mad when a business leaves town or when a Cleveland loses something which truly makes this city great [the Cleveland Ballet comes to mind.] Losing a brainless jock doesn't define a city.

I think you are failing to recognize the economic impact this will have on the city of Cleveland. $300,000,000 is the estimate. This isn't just about professional sports. This one goes way deeper than that.

I've discounted nothing. I've reviewed those numbers and find them illogical. I believe they assume that there would be NO downtown traffic should LeBron leave.

I stand by my words. It's takes more than a single person to make or break the city.

Yeah, it takes more than a single person to make or break the city, but in this case it does NOT take more than a single person to make or break a professional sports franchise in that city. The Cavs are routinely selling out their arena in downtown. You take away LeBron you're taking a LOT of people away from the downtown area. It honestly wouldn't surprise me to see the Cavs leave Cleveland altogether if LeBron bolts. The franchise was on hard times before LeBron, and it could easily be worse in a post-LeBron era.

Obviously losing an NBA team alone isn't going to make or break the city of Cleveland, but it's certainly not the direction you want to see the city head. Not when they're already struggling with losses of other businesses, etc.

LeBron's presence means a LOT to the city of Cleveland...to think otherwise is fooling yourself. When you get down to it he is just a mindless jock, sure, but he's probably the biggest figure in Cleveland sports history, certainly the biggest in a LONG time.

[NWLB]

Not trying to dump on the hope he stays in Cleveland, but again, its numbers. More money to play, more fans, etc. The wider world just isn't going to buy the idea that leaving Cleveland is somehow a great sin. I don't know if I've ever heard of anybody talk about "small market franchise" fans before. And for most of them, who aren't Cleveland fan, it is a none issue. Sponsors would love the fact he moves to a market where he is easily more promotable. As for Flipper, well, do we really have to explain him?

You most certainly are trying to "dump on the hope that he stays in Cleveland". Otherwise, you wouldn't fill your posts with non-sequitur arguments:

More money to play? -- He can get more by staying in Cleveland

More fans? In the arena-- hardly. More in the population, of another city, yes. But he'll hardly receive the beatification he gets in Cleveland.

Never heard of fans of Pittsburgh Pirates, Kansas City Royals, Minnesota Twins, etc? Never heard those fans complain about revenues and free agents? Do a google search on "Twins Joe Mauer" to get an example of small-market hometown athlete.

More promotable? For whom, "Nobody Beats the Wiz"? He won't be more famous than he is now no matter where he plays. He's already a worldwide brand.

I'll stand by my thought that he and his people are not going to put the Cleveland fans through the agony of a TV show to say he's going somewhere else. He's self absorbed, but I don't think he's cruel.

OK, so you think I'm dumping on Cleveland for stating what I see as the reality. Whatever.

I'll be more blunt. Right or wrong, I think you have a lot of marketing types that figure LBJ is worth more to companies, if he is endorsing their products while playing in the biggest city in America, than playing in a town in fly-over country. I think it is naive to say he can't do better as a national brand by playing in what is a vastly larger, more wealthy, and bluntly more cosmopolitan region as a New York, Chicago, or Miami. The raw secondary PR he can gain from being seen and appearing around New York City would be huge compared to anything Cleveland can muster.

As for the TV show, that is a simple difference of view. I don't think you book an hour to say "I'm staying in....Cleveland." That would be like "waste an hour saying nothing is changing." I'm sure most of that hour will be talking heads talking to "experts" about how this changes a team, the league, etc. And I'm sure ESPN is far more a willing partner in the farce than is being said. They know its a drama they can sell ads for.

It isn't "dumping" on Cleveland to argue about what are basic truths here. It is a nice town, lots of great suburbs. More culture than all of NW Ohio could muster for sure. But in the pecking order of such things, it isn't in the same circle as Chicago or New York.

I'm not about to come to AZZ, being a good BGSU grad, knowing full well that the majority here are either from the Cleveland area or sympathetic to it, and "dump" on the town. Not being big on pro sports in general, maybe if anything, I'm just not buying into the "hope" folks have in this case.

[Rightupinthere]

I'm one of the fans of the city of Cleveland who really doesn't give a rat's @ss since I'm no fan of professional sports. I usually get mad when a business leaves town or when a Cleveland loses something which truly makes this city great [the Cleveland Ballet comes to mind.] Losing a brainless jock doesn't define a city.

I think you are failing to recognize the economic impact this will have on the city of Cleveland. $300,000,000 is the estimate. This isn't just about professional sports. This one goes way deeper than that.

I've discounted nothing. I've reviewed those numbers and find them illogical. I believe they assume that there would be NO downtown traffic should LeBron leave.

I stand by my words. It's takes more than a single person to make or break the city.

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index ... worth.html

Here's the story I was using as a source. Tell me what part of that is illogical.

Well, let's see. I skimmed this when it first came out and I was wrong in my estimate of the assumptions. However, the numbers that add up to a whopping $300M are still illogical.

First, how can the average fan during the season spend $180 per game estimate by a POLITICAL ENTITY but a respected economist puts the number at about $100 FOR A PLAYOFF GAME.
I'm very dubious of that $180 and think it's closer - if not lower - than the $100. So, the largest portion of your $300M just took a 40% hit.

The article weighed in on James' income tax contribution to the city. SERIOUSLY? We're dying to keep James in Cleveland because he amounts to a whopping ~.03% of the city's total budget? that's similar to worrying about 30 cents when you're spending $1,000.

The article mentions the loss of value of the Cavs organization. That is an unrealized loss [read: paper loss] and does not have an economic effect unless Gilbert sells. Sure it's a great idea to keep value within the organization, but how much of a direct impact do you think that makes on the city of Cleveland?

The big worry SHOULD be if the Cavs pull up stakes and yes that does involve His Chokeness.

The city of Cleveland will survive if James chooses another city. The businesses which make the city it's home will also survive because most solid businesses do. If those businesses live and die by basketball then they don't have a solid business plan.

[Warthog]

The $180 represents fans actually attending games during the regular season. Ticket, dinner, hotel room, transportation, soveniers, etc. Attendance will definitey go down and this figure is to capture all lost revenues related to lower attendance.

The $100 figure represents ALL fans "eating, drinking, bar-hopping, renting cars, buying jerseys and so forth" for potential playoff games. So you have some fans spending the $180 for a game, but others just dropping $10 or $20 at the local bar watching the game or picking up a sixer to watch at home. Average comes out to $100 for these extra playoff games.

And you are sadly mistaken if you don't think businesses will close downtown if Lebron leaves. And I think they are underestimating the decline in attendance. People will stay away in droves. How many stomach punches can one city take before they just stop caring. It is different when outsiders chase the money and move on to other cities (Modell, Bell, Thome, Ramirez). But when the local kid who many have followed since he was in like 7th grade, it's a whole other story.

[Rightupinthere]

And you are sadly mistaken if you don't think businesses will close downtown if Lebron leaves.

Where did I say that businesses wouldn't close?

[NWLB]

And the word is: Miami.

So there it is folks.

[BGDrew]

So who's hated more now, Lebron or Art?

[Rightupinthere]

WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

I'm going to the Cleveland Orchestra concert in August. I love watching true championship players in action.

[Warthog]

So who's hated more now, Lebron or Art?

To me, it's Lebron.

[Warthog]

http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/news/gilbe ... 00708.html

Gotta love Dan Gilbert's passion for wanting to stick it to Lebron.

And I love something Chad Ford posted in the ESPN chat tonight. He said Kobe should immediately demand a trade to the Cavaliers, then win a title with the same roster that Lebron couldn't do it with and settle the discussion of who the better player is.

[Flipper]

Gee Dan...don't sugarcoat it, tell us how you really feel.... Based on the tone of that release, I would suspect that Lebron lead the Cavs to believe he was staying before finally making his true intentions public. Given the way he quit on the franchise against the Celtics....it wouldn't surprise me a bit to find out that he was clowning them.

[Jacobs4Heisman]

I respect the sentiment, but Dan is retarded if he thinks the Cavs will come anywhere near a title before the superfriends win 1. They could win 3 before the Cavs even make it out of the first round.

Would have been good for the NBA had he stayed, but the writing was on the wall for a looooooooooong long time. Surprised at what happened, but not at all that he left.

Bulls missed out on the Big 3, but at least they now have a lock on the central for the next few years. The rest of the league better hope Wade breaks down, because if those 3 stay healthy, they will crush everybody in the playoffs. Every team in the league should bring back the "Jordan rules", and rename them the Heat rules. Any time one of those 3 gets in the lane, clothesline. It will be the only way to beat them.

[Rightupinthere]

http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/news/gilbe ... 00708.html

Gotta love Dan Gilbert's passion for wanting to stick it to Lebron.

Whoa.

So, ya think Danny got his thong in a twist when The Hero Gone Mercenary stated the reason he left was "the best chance at winning"?

Yipes. It's good there is at least some ego left in Cleveland.......well, as long as it hasn't jumped out of a window. He should have done what I so often do. I type out exactly what I want to say and then press "delete."