The season ended Cavs thread...and NBA discussion in general

[Warthog]

How to prevent players 'colluding' was a discussion on Mike & Mike the other morning. Greenburg suggested that the only way to combat it is to extend the Bird Rights so that a team could sign thier own free agent for 7 years instead of 6, versus the 5 years that other teams could sign them. But I don't buy that. I agree that the entire package is worth more, yes. So a seven year deal = $140 mil instead of 5 year deal = $100 mil. Player gets an 'extra' $40 mil by resigning with the current team. Is that entirely accurate? If the player signs a 5 year deal, they can be a free agent again and sign a two year deal to equal that out. If the salary cap keeps rising and such, maybe that two year deal will be worth $50 mil. So after seven years and two contracts, the player earns $150 mil instead of $140 mil. Guess I don't see how this would address the issue.

I would throw out two ideas. One, the incumbent team can actually offer a higher per year salary. That is, they can go over the cap and offer a 15% per year higher salary than any other team. That way the deals are the same length, but the player is actually 'leaving money on the table' if they sign elsewhere.

My other idea is that they somehow implement a min salary cap or min # of players on a roster. We know this situation was created because teams were dumping players (ie Salary) all over the place in an attempt to have as few dollars committed for the upcoming season. In order to force a team to remain competitive year to year, make a min salary that they always have to be committed to each year. Try to create a situation where a team could only ever sign one of their own players to a max contract and only have enough cap space to sign one other max free agent.

I'm not suggesting these are good ideas or that stopping the creation of super teams is the way to go, but just throwing out some thoughts in case that would be the intention.

And FWIW, there is already talk of Chris Paul and Carmelo going to the Knicks next summer to team with Amare and create a super team there.

[Jacobs4Heisman]

Melo is going to sign a max extension in Denver. There's no way he pins how much he'll earn for the next 5-6 years on the upcoming CBA negotiation. Max salaries are going to plummet, so he'll lock in the max before they do.

To be honest, if I were Wade or Bosh, I'd have done the same thing and taken less money to build this superteam. The difference between 14 and 16 million is awfully negligible to these guys. For LeBron, I'd have been much more concerned about my legacy and/or hometown ties.

One thing's for sure - with Haslem, Chalmers, and Miller, along with any contribution from Big Z, Miami is going to be impossible to beat in a series if they're healthy. They'd have been tough to beat with replacement level players.

I don't know if I'd be in favor of more bird rights or restrictions on player movement. Interesting to think about.

[Warthog]

I don't know if I'd be in favor of more bird rights or restrictions on player movement. Interesting to think about.

Me too, but I don't give a s**t about the NBA anymore anyhow.

[Redwingtom]

One thing's for sure - with Haslem, Chalmers, and Miller, along with any contribution from Big Z, Miami is going to be impossible to beat in a series if they're healthy. They'd have been tough to beat with replacement level players.

How soon we forget all the "Cleveland will win the last two NBA Championships because they have home-court advantage" posts.

[Jacobs4Heisman]

One thing's for sure - with Haslem, Chalmers, and Miller, along with any contribution from Big Z, Miami is going to be impossible to beat in a series if they're healthy. They'd have been tough to beat with replacement level players.

How soon we forget all the "Cleveland will win the last two NBA Championships because they have home-court advantage" posts.

It's 2 totally different worlds. Very smart people crunch numbers and come up with expected win amounts for each team each year - these are generally very very accurate once injuries and roster changes are accounted for.

The 3 douchesketeers BROKE THE LINEAR EQUATION. It said they would win 102 regular season games this year with an average victory margin of over 20 points. Put either Bosh or Wade on those piss-poor cleveland rosters with James, and they walk to numerous titles. Put all 3 of them with a couple other decent players, and it's over. Just hope for injuries or egos to ruin it.

[Warthog]

I'm getting a kick out of the fact Lebron can't stand up for himself and address the quitting against Boston issue or say what happened, so his buddy D-Wade has to stick up for him now.

So Wade's reasoning for James poor performance was that Boston's defense was so good and so focused on stopping the opponents star. Coincidentally, Wade and the Heat played those same Celtics in the first round this season. So if Boston's defense was that good at stopping the opponent's star player, Wade must have struggled against the C's as well, right? Umm, I don't think so.

In their playoff series vs Boston this season:
FG %: James 44.7, Wade 56.3
3 pt%: James 26.9, Wade 40.5
Assists: James 7.2, Wade 6.8
Turnovers: James 4.5, Wade 5.2
Points: James 26.8, Wade 33.2

Sure looks like Wade outperformed James vs that tough C's defense.

Lets take this one step further and compare their performances vs the C's to their season averages. James had a lower FG%, lower 3 pt %, fewer assists, more turnovers, and fewer points than his season averages. Wade had a higher FG%, higher 3 pt%, more assists, more turnovers, and more points. So Wade performed better against the tough C's defense than he did all season and James performed worse against the tough C's defense than he did all season. Yep, Dwyane, he didn't quit.

[NWLB]

So were the Cavs basically anything other than James, or now that he is gone, are they going to take a massive swan-dive into the lottery next year?

Can the owner really be absolved of responsibility? Granted, if James had decided to leave long ago, it was moot. But did maybe he know this ahead of time, and just play the situation for what it was worth? Is it not curious the Cavs seemed to assume James would only play for the max, even though he and two others are taking less to be on the same team? How could they not talk to James to know, or try at least. Why not try to attract somebody else as several other teams did? If the Cavs did know James wouldn't come back, did they not contribute to the misery by playing up hopes of his staying?

I know it is popular to play-up James having departed. The ESPN show was tacky. Maybe the fix was in years ago. But I can't see how it is that folks are seemingly making the team ownership/leadership free of sin here?

[Redwingtom]

I'm getting a kick out of the fact Lebron can't stand up for himself and address the quitting against Boston issue or say what happened, so his buddy D-Wade has to stick up for him now.

So Wade's reasoning for James poor performance was that Boston's defense was so good and so focused on stopping the opponents star. Coincidentally, Wade and the Heat played those same Celtics in the first round this season. So if Boston's defense was that good at stopping the opponent's star player, Wade must have struggled against the C's as well, right? Umm, I don't think so.

In their playoff series vs Boston this season:
FG %: James 44.7, Wade 56.3
3 pt%: James 26.9, Wade 40.5
Assists: James 7.2, Wade 6.8
Turnovers: James 4.5, Wade 5.2
Points: James 26.8, Wade 33.2

Sure looks like Wade outperformed James vs that tough C's defense.

Lets take this one step further and compare their performances vs the C's to their season averages. James had a lower FG%, lower 3 pt %, fewer assists, more turnovers, and fewer points than his season averages. Wade had a higher FG%, higher 3 pt%, more assists, more turnovers, and more points. So Wade performed better against the tough C's defense than he did all season and James performed worse against the tough C's defense than he did all season. Yep, Dwyane, he didn't quit.

What about rebounds and free-throw percentage?

While Wade did have better stats, I don't think they were all that much better on the whole. But the "quitting" for me was more about body language and overall attitude than the stats.

[Warthog]

Maybe the fix was in years ago. But I can't see how it is that folks are seemingly making the team ownership/leadership free of sin here?

Four years ago when James signed only a three year extension (as did Wade and Bosh coincidentally), James basically tied managements hands. Every season James would demand they go out and get this player or that player in hopes of winning the next season. The GM didn't have the luxury of building the team up over a couple seasons as James put such a small window on them. They felt that they had to attempt to win now to keep him and that didn't work.

Add to the fact that James lack of commitment also kept other players away. Just last summer as the Cavs were courting Trevor Ariza, James refused to give Ariza any assurances that James would be in Cleveland a year later. Ariza then signed with the Rockets.

And now all of a sudden James is picking free agents up at the airport, making phone calls to encourage guys to come Miami, playing an active role in recruiting players to his team. That didn't happen in Cleveland.

How could they not talk to James? He refused to talked to them, that's how. Dan Gilbert said he made numerous attempts to contact James after the season ended and the only time they talked was during the Cavs free agent pitch, just like the other teams made to him.

I'm not absolving Gilbert/Ferry of all blame, there is plenty to go around. But if you want to allocate it out, I'd say 90% falls with James and 10% with Cavs management.

But actually, most of the blame might be on Cavs management, but not Gilbert and Ferry. Blame it on Gund and Embry. If they don't let Boozer out of his contract (which he stabbed them in the back on), maybe he resigns and you have James and Boozer teaming up for years in Cleveland and they have won three titles by now. But I digress...

[Warthog]

What about rebounds and free-throw percentage?

Since Wade is a true guard, I didn't think comparing rebounds was really fair. But for the record, James average 9.3 rebound vs the C's, up slightly from his season average of 7.3. (But remember, James had 19 boards in one game, so the average is tainted a bit. Take away that outlier and his average was only 7.4) Wade averaged 5.6 rebounds compared to his season average of 4.8. Again, Wade did much better in the playoffs.

As for FT%, James did shoot free throws well, in his defense. 88.6% vs season average of 76.7. Wade was 65% vs Celtics, 76.1% for the season.

After looking at the FT%, this thought just struck me as well. James' elbow was hurting him so bad he had to shoot a FT left handed against the Bulls. But then he can come back and shoot 88% against the Celtics? Makes me think that the elbow CAN'T be used as an excuse for his performance.

While Wade did have better stats, I don't think they were all that much better on the whole..

My point wasn't about comparing Wade to James. It was about comparing each players season performance vs how they performed in the playoffs. Wade definitely had better stats compared to his season average and James had worse stats compared to his season average. Wade is trying to say that the Celtics defense was the reason for James bad play. But the same Celtics defense didn't have that effect on his own performance.

But the "quitting" for me was more about body language and overall attitude than the stats.

Absolutely, and the other Cavalier players feed off of James. When he isn't into it, the rest of the team isn't either. But I wanted to apply some factually data to the argument of how bad James was against the Celtics.

[Globetrotter]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzrEvNvz ... r_embedded

[Falconboy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzrEvNvz ... r_embedded

That's hilarious. Love the sig Globe.

[Lord_Byron]

Thank You, Bill Livingston

"I believe we will want to remember the six good players (Austin Carr, Bingo Smith, Nate Thurmond, Mark Price, Brad Daugherty, Larry Nance) whose numbers hang in the rafters, not the indisputably great player who left in a manner designed to inflict the most emotional pain on the fans and do the most harm to the franchise.

James simply does not belong with men who took pride in the jersey and played to honor the city and its fans."

Well said.

[Redwingtom]

All I can say about this whole fiasco is that just when you think ESPN can do no more to make you despise them, they come up with this brilliant idea to totally eliminate any journalistic integrity that may have remained.

What's with all the hate on ESPN. It was James that came to them with this idea. Are they supposed to tell him no, we don't want to air a program that MILLIONS of people around the world want to see?

Yet, one more reason...
ESPN Yanks Unflattering LeBron James Story

We'll see if they ever post the piece after if goes through the 'usual editorial process'.

[Redwingtom]

Tracy McGrady is joining the Pistons for 1 year at a reported 1.35 million.