A developing big 10 [11] theory (in my head!)

[UK Peregrine]

Alright, this thread is interesting and a lot of good points have been raised. And this response is not meant to attack anyone, so don't take anything too personal. I really don't know where to begin. I guess I'll start with job well done to Bleeding Orange on thinking B!G. However, this theoretical argument is largely based on four years of recent football success. Five years ago, in terms of football, the Big 10 would have busted a gut at the thought of BG joining the Big Ten. It's a nice thought, but the real crux of this thought experiment is that you and others believe that there is a glass ceiling on BG because we are in the MAC. This is not true, the MAC does not hold down BG pursuits in trying to become a premiere institution. The real problem, like others have pointed out, is that we cannot compete at our current level in other sports and more importantly academically, specifically the almighty research dollar. Sure BG students may get good grades, but this is not what makes a D-1 research institution. As everyone knows, BG does not have a medical, dental, pharmaceutical or law college, among others. The big problem if your going to enter the Big 10 is competing on this level, which we cannot at this time and probably never will.

For example, these are the top-tier medical schools for NIH funding:
Rank Name NIH funding (in millions)
1 Johns Hopkins $255.3
2 University of Pennsylvania 238.4
3 Washington University 225.6
4 University of California 218.2
5 Yale University 209.4
6 University of Washington 169.9
7 Columbia University 167.5
8 Stanford University 166.6
9 University of Michigan 156.5
10 University of Pittsburgh 153.8
11 Duke University 152.6
12 Baylor University 149.2
13 CWRU 142.3
14 UCLA 142.2
15 UNC 131.7

52 Ohio State University ($42.0 million)

And what top physics department bring in alone.
Rank Institution Dollars (millions)
1 MIT 90.357
2 Johns Hopkins Univ. 71.693
3 Caltech 56.972
4 Univ. Cal. Berkeley 44.069
5 Cornell Univ. 34.248
6 Univ. of Md. 28.617
7 UCLA 22.921
8 Michigan State Univ. 22.882
9 Univ. of Arizona 20.525
10 Univ. Cal. San Diego 19.238

The universities ranked 11th to 25th are (in order): Princeton Univ., Univ. Wisc. Madison, Univ. of Pennsylvania, SUNY Stony Brook, Indiana University, Univ. of Michigan, Univ. of Iowa, Florida State Univ., Univ. Texas Austin, Rutgers Univ., Univ. Mass. Amherst, Univ. Cal. Santa Barbara, Univ. Illinois, Univ. of Colorado, Harvard Univ.

Now take these two programs, plus countless other we are not in the top 100 for funding and BG is nowhere close to competing, we aren't even on the radar. Why not instead of looking for greener Big 10 pastures, we take care of BG first and become the powerhouse of a very good MAC conference.

[Schadenfreude]

So, please let me know what you think of my assessment and let me know what you think.

I think everything you've posted is way, way, way, way, way off the mark.

First of all, the NCAA isn't going to mandate anything when it comes to Division I-A conferences breaking into divisions. The NCAA isn't the NFL. It's a loose confederacy.

The reason more conferences are setting themselves up with football championship games is because these games are beneficial. For the high majors, they raise a lot of dough. For the mid-majors, they enhance visibility.

Also, the NCAA generally doesn't allow conferences with fewer than 12 teams to break into divisions and hold a championship game. That rules out your scenario No. 1, which was already invalidated by the idea of the Big Ten dropping a school, which isn't going to happen.

It is highly, highly unlikely that any of us will ever see a MAC school join the Big Ten in our lifetimes. Our academic characters are so different. The Big Ten is largely a collection of massive research-oriented institutions. We are a collection of large arts-and-sciences, undergraduate-oriented institution with only a selective number of doctoral programs.

And that stuff matters. It does. Presidents have to sign off on these decisions, and they are particular about the sort of institutions they want to keep company with.

If Bowling Green won the next six so-called national championships... I doubt we would be considered for the Big Ten.

That's the way I see it.

If a MAC team were ever to join the Big Ten -- and, again, it's extremely unlikely -- I would submit it would be Buffalo.

Buffalo is a school in the Big Ten model: A Big, research-oriented. flagship. It also has the benefit of being outside the Big Ten's current footprint.

Here are some more realistic expansion candidates, in no particular order:

-- Pittsburgh
-- Rutgers
-- Missouri
-- Notre Dame

Some say Syracuse... but Syracuse is private and smaller. In fact, some in the Big Ten would probably object to the admission of Notre Dame on the same grounds. Some also say West Virginia... but I don't see that, either. People just don't take that state seriously.

None of these candidates do more for the Big Ten than the Big Ten does for them... so there has been no rush to add them.

[CapitalFalcon]

Ok...Can everyone just take a deep breath for a second....Inhale....Exhale...Good...

Alright...I would love BG to get to "the next level." I would love the see a huge stadium, filled to capacity, on the side of I-75. And yes...We are doing well as a program and beating up on the less strong MAC teams. But at this point in time, I don't see us dominating the conference. In the past 4 "glory" years, how many MAC championships have we won? How many undefeated seasons have we had? How many I-AA schools have we played?

No one in a BSC conference is going to look at us until we have built a successful program that has won multiple MAC Championships in multiple sports. Big schools view mid-majors as backwater institutions. Until we have multiple Utah seasons, we're going to stay right where we are.

And UK is 100% right. Even if we build a powerhouse of an athletic program across the board, we are not as academically "hard" in the research sciences as many larger institutions. The cure for cancer, heart disease, or the next generation of defibulators is NOT going to be coming out of BG. That is not what we were founded on.

Now, with that being said, I don't think that it is a total impossibility. But I think it was Schad that said it will never happen in our lifetime. That may not be true, but we'll all be frickin' old by the time it happens. Football garners a lot of the glory in Big Conferences, but the Presidents decide membership. Until BG is a year in, year out, undefeated, MAC power in multiple sports, and greatly expands it gradute offerings in areas such as physics, chemistry, biology, biotech, psychology, law, etc. and be a recognized name in many of those fields, it just won't happen. BG needs to have the whole package.

[kdog27]

In response to Kdog27's list, we don't even have most of those sports. The shear number of teams that big ten schools have prevents us from ever joining that conference. PSU has 29, OSU has 35 teams.

BTW, PSU is ranked 3rd in the preseason polls of men's gymnastics, and is the defending Nat' champs. (my brother is on the team.)

The sports I listed was just to point out that there are big ten teams ranked everywhere. I just posted the first polls I found.

[kdog27]

I must say that, right or wrong, I am shocked by the negativity that this post has recieved initially. The conception that you all seem to have of Bowling Green is a little sad, in my opinion. Academically we are one of the best schools in the state, if not the best at this point (size notwithstanding). We have been on an upward trend in most areas since 1995. We are gaining national respect for a lot, not just our football program (which doesn't hurt, either).

I was hoping that we could have a semi-controlled and serious discussion about this, but it seems that none of you so far are even willing to consider it.

What in the hell do we compete for if we aren't in it to improve? Jeez...

Don't beg for our opinions than

[Bleeding Orange]

You guys think I'm taking this personally, but this is actually what I wanted to see. My subsequent posts were not made out of offense, but a desire to see a more detailed discussion about this topic. We often mention this off-the-cuff and never really get to the issues surrounding it. That is exactly what is happening now, and I appreciate that. It is unfortunate that I am probably going to become everyone' least favorite poster, but I can live with that.

I do think that, as fans, students and alumni, though, that we need to be always thinking of ways to help improve our situation. Never stop dreaming Falcon faithful!

[UK Peregrine]

It is unfortunate that I am probably going to become everyone' least favorite poster, but I can live with that.

Oh I doubt that. This thread has been good and has started a decent discussion.

Maybe you should of asked something along the lines of, would BG be able to be a football only memeber in the Big 10 after we win 5 MAC championships in a row and sell out every game. Then can we start thinking about this? In terms of all other aspects of BGSU, were are obviously not a good fit for the Big 10, which is just fine with me. I like who we are and where this program is going. Personally, I like the idea of becoming the B!G fish in a little pond by staying right where we are. It's good to be the KING!

[Dayons_Den]

If a MAC team were ever to join the Big Ten -- and, again, it's extremely unlikely -- I would submit it would be Buffalo.

Buffalo is a school in the Big Ten model: A Big, research-oriented. flagship. It also has the benefit of being outside the Big Ten's current footprint.

Schad,

You've been reading too many of Kit Kat's posts. . . [/b]

[Schadenfreude]

Schad,

You've been reading too many of Kit Kat's posts. . . [/b]

This isn't hyperbole.

Buffalo is to the SUNY system what California is to the UC system.

Stony Brook, Albany and Binghamton would argue that they have parity... but Buffalo really is the flagship.

During a gubernatorial campaign, Rochester billionaire Tom Golisano once offered $10 or $15 million to Buffalo if it would change its name to "New York State University," because he thought it better expressed what Buffalo really is.

[Dayons_Den]

I remember when they were talking about the name change and have heard what role U@Buff plays in the system... I was just poking fun at your use of flagship hehe.