Big Trouble at Penn State!

[Warthog]

I think it's time to stop throwing McQueary under the bus. Read the grand jury report. McQ reported the incident to JoePa. JoePa in turn reported the incident to the AD. A week or so later McQ had a meeting with the AD and Schultz. He told them exactly what he saw. The AD and Schulz then basically ignored the situation and minimized it. The grand jury report states neither the AD nor Schultz are credible witnesses as their stories varied greatly from the other facts that had been collected. McQ was rated a credible witness by the grand jury. The AD and Schultz are the two who need to be villified here, not McQ or JoePa.

Yes, everyone could have done more. That's easy to see now. But McQ did more than anyone else at the time. It was his superiors that failed to do their jobs.

[Warthog]

Also, the police investigated an incident in 1998 where Sandusky admitted to being naked and showering with a young boy and hugging the boy in the shower. The case is closed after then-Centre County District Attorney Ray Gricar decides there will be no criminal charge. This is the same DA who has been missing since 2005.

And what about the janitor who saw Sandusky performing oral sex on a boy in the football locker room in the Fall of 2000? He told other janitors about the incident immediately and also told his boss. His boss told him to whiom he should file a report, but a report is never filed. Aren't everyone of these guys worse the McQ? None of the janitors did a thing and the supervisor did not file the report himself or report it to his superiors. They all just let it go.

[Lord_Byron]

. . . Yes, everyone could have done more. That's easy to see now. But McQ did more than anyone else at the time. It was his superiors that failed to do their jobs.

I refuse to use the standard of "who did the most at the time" to let anyone off. McQueary saw what he said appeared to be a 10 year old child being anally raped and walked out.

Using the standard of common human decency, he should have pulled that child out of there immediately and called authorities. He failed that test.

[musicman2343]

Penn State announced McQueary will not be coaching on Saturday.

[NWLB]

It gets worse.....

http://weeklyworldnews.com/headlines/40 ... ry-toledo/

[Warthog]

. . . Yes, everyone could have done more. That's easy to see now. But McQ did more than anyone else at the time. It was his superiors that failed to do their jobs.

I refuse to use the standard of "who did the most at the time" to let anyone off. McQueary saw what he said appeared to be a 10 year old child being anally raped and walked out.

Using the standard of common human decency, he should have pulled that child out of there immediately and called authorities. He failed that test.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but a lot of folks are calling out McQ when the janitor was in the same situation two years earlier and he did nothing at all. I don't see many, if any, people screaming for the janitor to be taken down because of this. Why is that?

[Redwingtom]

The AD and Schultz are the two who need to be villified here, not McQ or JoePa.

Couldn't disagree more. Their silence allowed Sandusky to remain free for years while he continued to run his "camps" for kids. There's no telling how many more children were put at risk.

They could have told their story to any outside source in law enforcement or the media...even anonymously...and had him jailed where he belonged.

The best way I can prove this point is ask what you thought Joe or McQ would have done if the boy being attacked was one of their children or a relative? Would they have been content with Sandusky just quietly being pushed out of the program? And not quickly I might add!

[Redwingtom]

. . . Yes, everyone could have done more. That's easy to see now. But McQ did more than anyone else at the time. It was his superiors that failed to do their jobs.

I refuse to use the standard of "who did the most at the time" to let anyone off. McQueary saw what he said appeared to be a 10 year old child being anally raped and walked out.

Using the standard of common human decency, he should have pulled that child out of there immediately and called authorities. He failed that test.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but a lot of folks are calling out McQ when the janitor was in the same situation two years earlier and he did nothing at all. I don't see many, if any, people screaming for the janitor to be taken down because of this. Why is that?

Probably because we have not heard enough about him? I certainly haven't.

But ANYONE who knew about this and did not pursue it through an actual authority with the integrity to get Sandusky immediately behind bars, is culpable and should be gone from employment immediately.

[musicman2343]

According to the Interim President, Rodney Erickson, Coach McQueary has been placed on administrative leave.

Edit: Length of leave is "indefinite at this point."

[Warthog]

The AD and Schultz are the two who need to be villified here, not McQ or JoePa.

Couldn't disagree more. Their silence allowed Sandusky to remain free for years while he continued to run his "camps" for kids. There's no telling how many more children were put at risk.

They could have told their story to any outside source in law enforcement or the media...even anonymously...and had him jailed where he belonged.

The best way I can prove this point is ask what you thought Joe or McQ would have done if the boy being attacked was one of their children or a relative? Would they have been content with Sandusky just quietly being pushed out of the program? And not quickly I might add!

You are completely missing my point. People are coming down on McQ like this is all his fault. It's not. Sandusky is a horrible human being. There was evidence long before the 2002 incident that McQ witnessed. NOONE did anything and NO CHARGES were ever filed. Why is McQ all of a sudden the poster boy for 'turn away and pretend nothing happened'? Just because he was a witness to the heinous event? He did take action, not enough, but he did do something. And because he did something he gets called before the grand jury and all this is now public.

Watch the video on espn.com with the interview with Jon Ritchie. It will help give some perspective on where McQ's head was. Ritchie talks about growing up in Central PA and meeting Sandusky when he was 14 and then having an on-going relationship with him when Sandusky recruited him to Penn St. Ritchie thought Sandusky was exactly that type of man he wanted to be when he was older. Ritchie compares Sandusky to Mother Teresa. That's what people thought of him and all the work he did with The Second Mile. McQ grew up right there in Happy Valley too. He probably had similar thoughts about Sandusky. And then one day he sees something that destroys every fabric of reality that he once knew. How would you react if that was you?

[h2oville rocket]

[quote="Warthog People are coming down on McQ like this is all his fault. It's not. [/quote]


All his fault? Are you serious? No one is saying its all his fault. Again, as an educator/employee atthe school McQ was almost certainly covered by Pennsylvania's mandatory reporter law. The law requires a report to law enforcement-not to your boss, not to the school president, not to the Board of Regenst but to law enforcemet (or a Child Protection agency in most cases-not sure about Penn). He failed to make the report, more children suffered as a result.

And in response to the question "How would I respond?", our heroes disappoint us all the time because they're human. When I see one raping a ten year old boy (and I'm TWENTY EIGHT not an awestruck kid of 12) I report him to the police, but only after I stop the incident and assure the child is safe.

[Redwingtom]

People are coming down on McQ like this is all his fault. It's not.

All his fault? Are you serious? No one is saying its all his fault. Again, as an educator/employee atthe school McQ was almost certainly covered by Pennsylvania's mandatory reporter law. The law requires a report to law enforcement-not to your boss, not to the school president, not to the Board of Regenst but to law enforcemet (or a Child Protection agency in most cases-not sure about Penn). He failed to make the report, more children suffered as a result.

And in response to the question "How would I respond?", our heroes disappoint us all the time because they're human. When I see one raping a ten year old boy (and I'm TWENTY EIGHT not an awestruck kid of 12) I report him to the police, but only after I stop the incident and assure the child is safe.

Agree totally!

[Flipper]

Exactly...the truest test of character is a response to a sudden event. I don't care if you're a janitor or a football coach. You see someone raping a little kid, you damn well better take stpes to put a stop to it right then.

[Warthog]

as an educator/employee atthe school McQ was almost certainly covered by Pennsylvania's mandatory reporter law. The law requires a report to law enforcement-not to your boss, not to the school president, not to the Board of Regenst but to law enforcemet (or a Child Protection agency in most cases-not sure about Penn). He failed to make the report, more children suffered as a result.

Question, do we know that McQ was aware that his obligation was to report to law enforcement? Just asking, because he wasn't a teacher (as far as I know) so maybe he was not aware of his obligation in that regard. Is it his responsibility to know that or is it his employer's responsibility to make sure it's employee's know what to do?

And in response to the question "How would I respond?", our heroes disappoint us all the time because they're human. When I see one raping a ten year old boy (and I'm TWENTY EIGHT not an awestruck kid of 12) I report him to the police, but only after I stop the incident and assure the child is safe.

H2O, I respect your thoughts as you obviously work in this field and you probably are better trained on how to respond in that situation. Other people might just be too shocked/scared to intervene. That's all. Watch the Jon Ritchie video and get a sense of the shock that he is still in after simply hearing about these horrendous events. Yes, we all want to believe that we would jump in and intervene, but that simply is not the truth. We are weak, scared people sometimes.

[footballguy51]

H2O, I respect your thoughts as you obviously work in this field and you probably are better trained on how to respond in that situation. Other people might just be too shocked/scared to intervene. That's all. Watch the Jon Ritchie video and get a sense of the shock that he is still in after simply hearing about these horrendous events. Yes, we all want to believe that we would jump in and intervene, but that simply is not the truth. We are weak, scared people sometimes.

This is what I've been thinking this entire time. Everybody puts on this hero persona when something bad happens and they weren't the ones that witnessed it, saying what they "would have done" if they were in that position. What if he had a gun or a knife? Intervene and you could die. It might sound selfish, but I think I would rather live to report such an incident, not die trying to stop it. If somebody died trying to stop it, then nobody would have been told and Sandusky could have kept on doing what he was doing. Yes, that sounds extreme, but so is the statement that you should run up to the two, grab the kid, and drag him to safety as if Sandusky would just stand there and let you do whatever you wanted with no resistance.

I can tell you, my first reaction probably would have been complete shock that such a thing was occurring. I probably would have gotten out of there and gotten home as quickly as possible. The next day, I probably would have told my boss, because even now I didn't know there was a law that mandated that I report such incidents to the authorities. I would have told my boss what I saw, and taken it from there. Did he say he'd handle it? Did he tell me what I needed to do? It all goes from there.

However, I have seen people vilified for filing false accusations all the time. Even though I would have witnessed this with my own eyes, that doesn't necessarily mean charges would be brought and the guy convicted. In fact, there's a good chance I could get fired for alerting the media and the authorities about something like this, especially if the guy is acquitted. Again, some people would be horrified that I would think about myself in this situation, but if I have a good job that I like, and I'm not 100% confident that doing what I'm doing will not get me fired, I might think twice about it. Maybe that makes me a horrible person, but there are a lot of people out there that think that exact same thing when confronted with situations such as witnessing murders (if I tell, will they kill me and/or my entire family?).