OU Game

[Globetrotter]

And Crawford dribbles too much and we waste the last 30 seconds without even a shot. Now that's impressive. NOT. BTW, the Women are also not doing so well back here at the Stroh

He was looking to pass and no one got open. Then he passed and didn't get the ball back until too late. You are searching for ways to blame the PG. Do you blame the QB when the WRs don't run the right routes?

[Globetrotter]

One thing and one thing ONLY is going to cost us this game -------REBOUNDING -----or lack thereof!!!! Trying to think of when I have seen a poorer effort.

We need to find a way to blame that perfectly good pg because he is not perfectly perfect. Can't blame the rebounding or the horrible help defense from the post which gave up layups upon layups.

Jo Craw is not a perfect PG but he is certainly above average and not the reason we lost tonight by any means.

[Globetrotter]

You guys are crazy on this Crawford thing. He might be the guy the other team worries about the most on both sides of the ball. He is absolutely ridiculously inconsistent but he is also dangerous on both sides of the ball-very difficult to guard and annoying to the guy he guards. You guys have picked a whipping boy and are whipping away.

Calhoun scores 4 points tonight and has 2 rebounds he gets a pass? DJ Cooper is one of the best players in the MAC if not the best. He is no Ivo Baltic. We got outrebounded by 18. This one is on our bigs.

That OU team is just flat out more talented then we are. Cooper-Offut-Taylor and Kellogg are all dangerous.

[gmartin]

Fine, I won't blame Crawford but we did have our first lead, a 3 point lead, before Crawfords 0-3 shooting, get beat twice down the lane, got best off the dribble for a pathetic uncontested 3 pointer, another airball, two turnovers, and two boneheaded fouls. I guess my eyes, a few others in this thread and the Announcers must have watched a different Crawford down the stretch. He was OU best player the last 5 min. Am I calling him out, cannot right I am. OU went on a 20-4 run the last five minutes. Add up the points of his turnovers the last five minutes, the unguarded 3 he gave up, the two boneheaded fouls that led to 5 made free throws. And the beat of the dribble drives that led to points. You get 15!!!

Alright I won't blame Crawford. Except for the five airballs in the first half he played above average. But I will and am blaming him for the last 5 minutes.

[Falcon137]

Calhoun is as inconsistent as Crawford, IMHO.

This was probably the biggest game of the year, up to this point. Calhoun, absolutely disappeared.

5 attempts
4 points
2 rebounds (0 defensive rebounds)
27 minutes

[Flipper]

Crawford is a severly limited guy...he doesn't frustrate me in the least because I understand that he's a 5-6 guy with no jump shot and poor vision. Calhoun has all the talent in the world...there is no reason he's not a night in and out 20pt 8 rebound PF in this league. He's the most frustrating guy I've seen here since Ron "30 pts one night, four the next" Lewis.

[Globetrotter]

Crawford is a severly limited guy...he doesn't frustrate me in the least because I understand that he's a 5-6 guy with no jump shot and poor vision. Calhoun has all the talent in the world...there is no reason he's not a night in and out 20pt 8 rebound PF in this league. He's the most frustrating guy I've seen here since Ron "30 pts one night, four the next" Lewis.

I dont know how you can say he has no jump shot when he shoots 43% from the field. For a guard that is not bad. I am not in love with Crawford or ORR but I just don't want to tar and feather them or ride them out of town on a rail or doing any other hilarious sayings that people actually used to do to people.

[Globetrotter]

Calhoun is as inconsistent as Crawford, IMHO.

This was probably the biggest game of the year, up to this point. Calhoun, absolutely disappeared.

5 attempts
4 points
2 rebounds (0 defensive rebounds)
27 minutes

Where was Cam Black? He played 17 minutes and was not in foul trouble.

[Flipper]

Crawford is a severly limited guy...he doesn't frustrate me in the least because I understand that he's a 5-6 guy with no jump shot and poor vision. Calhoun has all the talent in the world...there is no reason he's not a night in and out 20pt 8 rebound PF in this league. He's the most frustrating guy I've seen here since Ron "30 pts one night, four the next" Lewis.

I dont know how you can say he has no jump shot when he shoots 43% from the field. For a guard that is not bad. I am not in love with Crawford or ORR but I just don't want to tar and feather them or ride them out of town on a rail or doing any other hilarious sayings that people actually used to do to people.

He shoots .43 fromthe field because he shoots layups and 5ft jumpers. Our offense would be better served if our PG would penetrate off the dribble and pull up from mid range. That would force the opposition bigs to react and create offense in the paint for our bigs. He's not athreat to do thaqt so they sit and wait for him to go to the basket where they either block his shot or kill him.

[Globetrotter]

Crawford is a severly limited guy...he doesn't frustrate me in the least because I understand that he's a 5-6 guy with no jump shot and poor vision. Calhoun has all the talent in the world...there is no reason he's not a night in and out 20pt 8 rebound PF in this league. He's the most frustrating guy I've seen here since Ron "30 pts one night, four the next" Lewis.

I dont know how you can say he has no jump shot when he shoots 43% from the field. For a guard that is not bad. I am not in love with Crawford or ORR but I just don't want to tar and feather them or ride them out of town on a rail or doing any other hilarious sayings that people actually used to do to people.

He shoots .43 from the field because he shoots layups and 5ft jumpers. Our offense would be better served if our PG would penetrate off the dribble and pull up from mid range. That would force the opposition bigs to react and create offense in the paint for our bigs. He's not a threat to do that so they sit and wait for him to go to the basket where they either block his shot or kill him.

He does that all the time. I can count 3 times off memory last night that he did that from the left elbow. He dribbled in found the pocket and pulled up for the 10-13 footer. I think you can bash his court vision, his 3 pt shot and his overall consistency but thats not something that I think is warranted.

Off this topic, even though I think its alarmist to say get Orr out now immediately after the game, the more I think about it the more I really want to see what someone else can do with this talent next year. There just is not any creativity and you don't see the young guys put in positions where they can grow and develop. He is the Romeo Crennell of MAC coaches in terms of sideline demeanor as well and I think that comes through on the coaches. I am for a change and moving more and more towards that.

[jscottfitzwater]

Orr was actually quite animated last night. Don't remember the last time he was so active on the sideline.

[hammb]

First of all, I don't blame Crawford for last night's loss. For the most part the entire team played like s**t. OU did a great job doubling Calhoun all game long and we couldn't get him the ball. And in that regard, Globe, you are VERY wrong, IMO. OU basically said that the only person they cared about guarding was Calhoun and nobody else is a threat...no way is Crawford the guy other teams fear the most. Unfortunately when OU sold out to stop Calhoun nobody else was able to take advantage. I'm afraid this is going to become more commonplace now that we're back in the East. Against the West most of the teams were so soft and pathetic down low that even when they doubled Calhoun it didn't matter he could still beat it. If the East teams are willing to sell out to stop him (and they should be) they'll have the talent to do it...it's up to the rest of our team to make them regret that defensive decision.

That being said, I don't really think Crawford is above average as a starting PG, and I don't really care what the stats show. His jumpshot outside of 10 feet is pretty bad...every once in awhile he gets hot, but on the whole, it's pretty poor. His shooting percentage is largely built on fast break buckets...despite his size he is actually a pretty good finisher around the rim. But his jump shot isn't very good, and is especially inconsistent.

But his shooting % is not really my issue with his game. My issue is that he's got a god awful 1.3 A:TO ratio, and you never know what the hell you're actually going to get out of him. In fact, I wouldn't hate him nearly as much if you could actually count on getting his statistical averages every game, but it doesn't work that way. He's really good or really terrible. The problem is you can't really WIN on the nights he's really terrible. The odds of him putting together the 3-4 good games we'd need to win the MAC are pretty damn slim. And THAT has always been my contention with him. It's not that I don't think he's an alright player, because he is ok. I agree completely that he can be a headache for the opposition with his style. But to trot him out there for 30+ minutes a night as the primary ball handler? Ugh...you'll never be anything more than mediocre if you're doing that.

Crawford is what he is. He's a shoot first PG who is a really poor decision maker and has subpar court vision. Unfortunately, he's not even consistent enough at what he does do well to be counted on. He has no business playing 30 minutes per game, but unfortunately I don't know that we have other options. That's not his fault of course, but an indictment on the coaching staff that this mediocre PG is the best guard they've brought in during their 5 year tenure.

[Globetrotter]

First of all, I don't blame Crawford for last night's loss. For the most part the entire team played like s**t. OU did a great job doubling Calhoun all game long and we couldn't get him the ball. And in that regard, Globe, you are VERY wrong, IMO. OU basically said that the only person they cared about guarding was Calhoun and nobody else is a threat...no way is Crawford the guy other teams fear the most. Unfortunately when OU sold out to stop Calhoun nobody else was able to take advantage. I'm afraid this is going to become more commonplace now that we're back in the East. Against the West most of the teams were so soft and pathetic down low that even when they doubled Calhoun it didn't matter he could still beat it. If the East teams are willing to sell out to stop him (and they should be) they'll have the talent to do it...it's up to the rest of our team to make them regret that defensive decision.

That being said, I don't really think Crawford is above average as a starting PG, and I don't really care what the stats show. His jumpshot outside of 10 feet is pretty bad...every once in awhile he gets hot, but on the whole, it's pretty poor. His shooting percentage is largely built on fast break buckets...despite his size he is actually a pretty good finisher around the rim. But his jump shot isn't very good, and is especially inconsistent.

But his shooting % is not really my issue with his game. My issue is that he's got a god awful 1.3 A:TO ratio, and you never know what the hell you're actually going to get out of him. In fact, I wouldn't hate him nearly as much if you could actually count on getting his statistical averages every game, but it doesn't work that way. He's really good or really terrible. The problem is you can't really WIN on the nights he's really terrible. The odds of him putting together the 3-4 good games we'd need to win the MAC are pretty damn slim. And THAT has always been my contention with him. It's not that I don't think he's an alright player, because he is ok. I agree completely that he can be a headache for the opposition with his style. But to trot him out there for 30+ minutes a night as the primary ball handler? Ugh...you'll never be anything more than mediocre if you're doing that.

Crawford is what he is. He's a shoot first PG who is a really poor decision maker and has subpar court vision. Unfortunately, he's not even consistent enough at what he does do well to be counted on. He has no business playing 30 minutes per game, but unfortunately I don't know that we have other options. That's not his fault of course, but an indictment on the coaching staff that this mediocre PG is the best guard they've brought in during their 5 year tenure.

Everything with this team that is a problem seems pretty teachable. Crawford and court vision is just another one of those things. You are not neccassarily born with court vision. Make him slow down. Limit his options until he has success with the first few. What do you do with a new starting QB? What frustrates me most is that we see the same mistakes over and over again not that he makes the mistakes. In regards to Calhoun if they are taking him away atleast get him the ball in the high post or away fromt he basket where he will draw a couple defenders to him.

I also dont get the Orr-Henderson-Clarke rotations. It just seems to me that he plays them at spot times so they don't get too disgruntled and want to leave but has 0 confidence in them helping to affect the game. Maybe they have 0 ability and that has shown in practice but they certainly have not been given the chance to show it in a game. When Kraus went out I figured Clarke would step up and we may never see Kraus again.

[Flipper]

I don't think you can teach court vision...I've seen to many underisized shooting guards wash out as PG's in the NBA to think you can teach what needs to be innate.

When I was a kid in HS, they showed us pictures of spider webs spun by arachnids that had been does with LSD...the webs were all screwed up...they had no discernable pattern or design. The hope was to get us to stay off acid.

Louis Orr's sub patterns remind me of those webs....

[h2oville rocket]

Calhoun has all the talent in the world...there is no reason he's not a night in and out 20pt 8 rebound PF in this league.

I agree about Calhoun- do you know him personally? Because if you do could you ask him to have one of those brain/body freeze games against us? Cuz he's always on the 20/8 side of the equation when we play against him.