Where was Cam Black? He played 17 minutes and was not in foul trouble.
Cam Black had his worst game of the year last night. He seemed out of it. I remember at least 3 rebounds going through his hands and other reachable loose balls he made no effort to get. This should have been his night. Calhoun didn't "dissapear," OU double-teamed the crap outta him all night because they didn't think Cam Black could beat them on the offensive end and they were right.
I'm giving a tip of the cap to OU rather than throwing BG under the bus. Sure, BG was flat and there's no excuse for that, but that was a flat-out determined OU team playing at home last night, and boy did it show on the defensive end.
Globetrotter wrote:You guys are crazy on this Crawford thing. He might be the guy the other team worries about the most on both sides of the ball. He is absolutely ridiculously inconsistent but he is also dangerous on both sides of the ball-very difficult to guard and annoying to the guy he guards. You guys have picked a whipping boy and are whipping away.
Calhoun scores 4 points tonight and has 2 rebounds he gets a pass? DJ Cooper is one of the best players in the MAC if not the best. He is no Ivo Baltic. We got outrebounded by 18. This one is on our bigs.
That OU team is just flat out more talented then we are. Cooper-Offut-Taylor and Kellogg are all dangerous.
Ohio did exactly what you need to do to beat BG. They smothered Calhoun with double teams every time he touched the ball and made us try to beat them from the perimeter. Black offers nothing offensively unless he cleans up a miss. The scary part about Ohio to me is, they don't have a single senior who plays on the roster! This entire team will be intact next year as well. They have only one senior on the roster and he's not even playing. Groce may be a hot head, but he knows how to put talent together and get it there in Athens. He even got Bassett there for one season and all he did was blow up and single-handily carried them to the MAC Tournament championship two years ago.
Globetrotter wrote:You guys are crazy on this Crawford thing. He might be the guy the other team worries about the most on both sides of the ball. He is absolutely ridiculously inconsistent but he is also dangerous on both sides of the ball-very difficult to guard and annoying to the guy he guards. You guys have picked a whipping boy and are whipping away.
Calhoun scores 4 points tonight and has 2 rebounds he gets a pass? DJ Cooper is one of the best players in the MAC if not the best. He is no Ivo Baltic. We got outrebounded by 18. This one is on our bigs.
That OU team is just flat out more talented then we are. Cooper-Offut-Taylor and Kellogg are all dangerous.
Ohio did exactly what you need to do to beat BG. They smothered Calhoun with double teams every time he touched the ball and made us try to beat them from the perimeter. Black offers nothing offensively unless he cleans up a miss. The scary part about Ohio to me is, they don't have a single senior who plays on the roster! This entire team will be intact next year as well. They have only one senior on the roster and he's not even playing. Groce may be a hot head, but he knows how to put talent together and get it there in Athens. He even got Bassett there for one season and all he did was blow up and single-handily carried them to the MAC Tournament championship two years ago.
Black does not have a bad offensive game when he is willing to use it. The problem is he is not willing to use it. He is too passive and fades away on shots far too often. He takes just 3 shots a game and makes over half of the ones he does. They needed to take a half of a half in a game that did not mean much and just feed him and say that he needed to touch the ball every single time down court. The guy is a unpolished gem who will end up being one of the elites in the MAC if he gets better coaching and stays healthy. Whenever he does something he does it well. Its just hard to get him to do something. He might be the most physically imposing guy in the MAC. EDIT***I meant have the biggest physical size, and I ignored Zeke Marshall who has much better size.
Are we talking about the same Cameron Black? Tall kid? wears #35? In light of our ongoing discussion about Jordan Crawford..i'm just going to say that you and I view the talent on this roster differently...
It's not the fall that hurts...it's when you hit the ground.
Flipper wrote:Are we talking about the same Cameron Black? Tall kid? wears #35? In light of our ongoing discussion about Jordan Crawford..i'm just going to say that you and I view the talent on this roster differently...
I have seen some pretty nice touch around the basket from Cam...the problem is he shoots 3 times a game.
Most physically imposing guy in the MAC??? Are we even talking about the same player??? I can think of a guy on every other MAC East team alone that is more imposing in the front court over Black….Miami’s Mavunga (their best player), Buffalo’s McCrea (a beast), Kent State’s Manns (wants to dunk it on your head), Akron’s Marshall (way more potential) and Ohio’s Baltic (more polished and can also shoot). I also think Ball State’s Jones from the West is far better than Black too. Now to be fair to Black, all of those guys aside from McCrae are older than he is but I’m sorry, I’m taking any of them over Black if I am putting someone on the block.
I like Black’s height, but he’s slow, he looks panicked and can’t wait to get rid of the ball when we feed it to him down low, he’s very limited offensively, he can’t jump (still haven’t seen him dunk at 6-10 but I have seen Crawford do it at 5-6) and his shoulders are about as wide as most everyone’s on this board. If Black had half the physicality as say Oglesby it would do him some good. Oglesby is probably the only guy on our team who I see play with consistent fire, he shows some emotion. He’s very limited in what he can do offensively – but there’s no doubt he plays with a chip on his shoulder. You rarely see any kind of emotion like that from our other players. But I’m not picking on Black to pick on him….another guy we had at BG recently who I would agree WAS physically imposing was Otis Polk – but he sure didn’t play like it. No one in the MAC had a player of his size and frame, but like Black, he was often soft. He would lay it up off the glass instead of dunking it and it took him two years to learn how not to move on setting a screen up top. Polk could have been a monster in the MAC.
I want Black to do well, and I know he’s battled some foot problems, but I do hope he improves. But he has to. We can’t hope he does he must. Remember, Oglesby is gone next year and we have Rorie redshirting and he averaged (last I heard) like around 4 ppg in high school at 6-9? I don’t care how guard-oriented his team might have been, that’s low. But Black is our guy, and I do hope his next two years are a lot better. I remember watching a post guy like Josh Almanson go from a “deer in headlights” player in his first two seasons to an All-MAC caliber player for us in his last two and I hope Black does the same.
Flipper wrote:Are we talking about the same Cameron Black? Tall kid? wears #35? In light of our ongoing discussion about Jordan Crawford..i'm just going to say that you and I view the talent on this roster differently...
Now I see why Globe and I disagree so much. He must either be partially blind or watches an entirely differently BG team. We are talking about BG in Ohio not BG, KY. I thought it was just Globes mancrush on Crawford, but seriously Black deserved to be benched. I was screaming at my phone watching the feed as Black lost rebound after rebound. Heck even an OU announcer said he was flat footed and he was. I don't think he jumped higher than 6 inches. Maybe he is hurt. But for the OU game Black needed to be benched. Can't wait until Globe says Erger should get more minutes. If he does I want to know what he is smoking.
I don't see how anybody could say Cam Black is physically imposing. Yes, he's got a nice body on him...decent size and height, but that's about it. He's slowfooted and as soft as Jello. I do think he has nice touch around the rim, and I think he's even shown some decent post moves from time to time, but that's about it. More times than not he allows the defensive players to push him out of the paint, he's passive as all hell when he gets the ball, and he doesn't battle for rebounds worth anything either.
BGSU33 wrote:Most physically imposing guy in the MAC??? Are we even talking about the same player??? I can think of a guy on every other MAC East team alone that is more imposing in the front court over Black….Miami’s Mavunga (their best player), Buffalo’s McCrea (a beast), Kent State’s Manns (wants to dunk it on your head), Akron’s Marshall (way more potential) and Ohio’s Baltic (more polished and can also shoot). I also think Ball State’s Jones from the West is far better than Black too. Now to be fair to Black, all of those guys aside from McCrae are older than he is but I’m sorry, I’m taking any of them over Black if I am putting someone on the block.
Did you read all the caveats that I added before that? The fact that he is passive and shoots just 3 times a game etc. etc.? I can't help but agree with you but what I am talking about is more the eye test. Other then Zeke Marshall I am not sure there is a guy who I have seen who would be a better "first guy off the bus". Maybe I used the wrong phrase because you started talking about talent and ability to score and all those things and I don't really mean that. What I mean is size and POTENTIAL to make your presence felt in the post. Otis Polk style. I may have just phrased it wrong but thats what I was intending.
hammb wrote:I don't see how anybody could say Cam Black is physically imposing. Yes, he's got a nice body on him...decent size and height, but that's about it. He's slowfooted and as soft as Jello. I do think he has nice touch around the rim, and I think he's even shown some decent post moves from time to time, but that's about it. More times than not he allows the defensive players to push him out of the paint, he's passive as all hell when he gets the ball, and he doesn't battle for rebounds worth anything either.
Yeah I phrased it wrong which is pretty evident by the first part of my post where I talk about how passive he is. What I meant was that he might be the biggest-or have the best size in the league. He does not impose that size. I meant physically imposing like, "Holy Crap that guy is big". Not, "That guy is imposing his physicality on me". (Which happens alot to Toledo Fans) I turned the phrase incorrectly. Cam Black is probably the least physically imposing Big Man on the team-->His size gives him the potential to be a big presence in the middle both offensively and defensively but he seems really passive. I have noted below that he gets a lot of blocks but I don't even really notice him. So in conclusion I agree with you all that I am wrong
Globetrotter wrote: Not, "That guy is imposing his physicality on me". (Which happens alot to Toledo Fans) )
As A Toledo fan I can only say "I pity the fool who tries to impose his physicality on me." I don't even have a clue what that means but I guess anyone who thinks Jordan Crawford is a solid point guard might be living in a different world.
Globetrotter wrote: Not, "That guy is imposing his physicality on me". (Which happens alot to Toledo Fans) )
As A Toledo fan I can only say "I pity the fool who tries to impose his physicality on me." I don't even have a clue what that means but I guess anyone who thinks Jordan Crawford is a solid point guard might be living in a different world.
Jordon Crawford for life! Toledo would kill for a guard of his quality right now.
Globetrotter wrote: Not, "That guy is imposing his physicality on me". (Which happens alot to Toledo Fans) )
As A Toledo fan I can only say "I pity the fool who tries to impose his physicality on me." I don't even have a clue what that means but I guess anyone who thinks Jordan Crawford is a solid point guard might be living in a different world.
Jordon Crawford for life! Toledo would kill for a guard of his quality right now.
We finally agree- we are in desperate need of a backup who can give Juice ten minutes off the floor. Buckley is more of a two guard and struggles at the point.
I've seen Black look very slow and soft. However, he has shown flashes of brilliance occasionally. He's a natural shot blocker. In my mind, we still don't know what we have in Cam Black. He might toughen into a consistent, decent post player. He's clearly not there yet. It's fair to use Black's development as a "Key Performance Indicator" of Orr's coaching.
With all the criticism directed at Crawford, Dee Brown's bad play has flown under the radar. It's staggering to consider our lack of guard talent since Orr's been coach. Clarke is first guard Orr has recruited that looks like a genuinely good, above average D1 guard talent. That Clarke sees so little time while Brown and Crawford take us nowhere is maddening to me.
"All posts are to be read in the voice of Lewis Black."
