New recruit

[hammb]

BG basketball was at the bottom of the country when Orr arrived and he's at least gotten it to the middle of the pack. I can't put a superlative next to the job he's done, but it's also not nothing.

I couldn't disagree with you more. The last few Dakich years were bad but the program wasn't "at the bottom." Hell, Orr has a worse winning percentage than Dan had. If anything, he's taken over a mediocre program and gone backwards. I don't think we are "middle of the pack" anymore either!

I'm not sure you're disagreeing with me as much as you are with numbers. They were #256 and #242 in the last two years under Dakich with a combined 18-39 record. Last season they were #158, .500 winning percentage, in the middle of a conference that was in the middle of the rankings. Don't get me wrong, Dakich had achievements at BG.

edit. Of course my point wasn't that Orr's been great. It was that there is at least a rumored financial incentive to keep him here. Would still like to know if anyone has heard something similar, if it's pure conjecture, or totally fabricated.

The problem with this line of thinking is that it looks at last year in a vacuum to document Orr's improvement in the program. Last year was the year we all expected him to finally put it all together. His first recruiting class were all seniors. A couple of the starters were Juniors coming off promising sophomore years with lots of PT. He had a senior JuCo that had flashed some highlight ability the previous year. It was finished off with what looked like a promising recruiting class that might provide some depth off the bench.

What we got was a group of experienced players that did NOTHING to improve upon what they did the year before. The promising sophomores turned into disappointing juniors showing just as much (if not more) inconsistency than the year prior. And then we got a freshman class that inexplicably struggled to get consistent playing time. And oh yeah we got the same stupid substitution patterns and "play calling" that we have grown accustomed to during the Orr tenure.

The end result is that, even in Orr's perfect storm year where we should be competing for a MAC title, we finished #158 in RPI, and at the bottom of our division in the MAC. Say what you will about the strength of the MAC East (and it is pretty good) that is simply unacceptable.

I fully expect that this season we'll be regressing quite a bit trying to replace those seniors with a bunch of underclassmen that have barely played. If this season goes how I expect that mythical improvement from #242 to #158 will be gone, then what? I've probably been to 90% of the Orr coached home games, and have hit quite a few road contests in that stretch as well. I haven't seen anything to make me believe he has what it takes to take this program back to where we want it to be.

[Falcon137]

BG basketball was at the bottom of the country when Orr arrived and he's at least gotten it to the middle of the pack. I can't put a superlative next to the job he's done, but it's also not nothing.

And remember, five of the top six teams in the MAC last year were in the EAST. We have moved from the bottom to the middle of the pack. Now we need to move from the middle to the top. It just might take some time.

This justifies nothing. We aren't in the ACC or the Big10 where you can finish 5th in your half and have something to show for it. Outside of the 1 year where we earned an NIT birth, there has no been no real postseason and even with that, no postseason success.

He hasn't shown the ability to move the program forward. It doesn't matter if he's raised the talent level (which I think he has, marginally), the rest of the league and specifically the East has gotten better. Akron and Ohio's programs are light years ahead of us, Kent has a good program, Miami has traditionally had a good program, we'll see what happens after Coles, Buffalo currently has a better program. Oh and our rival up the road has probably past us after being pathetically bad a few years ago.

That is who you are judged against, not yourself but other teams. This isn't the Y where getting better is the goal. The goal is to win the MAC. Plain and simple.

Boosters have poured millions upon millions into this program in the past few years and with no results. There has been to much investment and there is to much tradition to wallow away at .500 or worse year in and year out and not get better.

[BleedOrange]

Take a good hard look at the talent Orr has brought in v. what Dakich had. Honestly, I think the talent level has DIMINISHED since Dakich.

Another problem with Orr's teams is that they are physically weak. None of them have above average upper body strength. Compare our guys to what WMU shows up with every year.

[Flipper]

WMU is like Purdue....I think even their equipment managers are juicing...