debtorange wrote:It would work too good for Orr to use. It looks like early on in this season that Holmes will be used like Oglesby was used last year---way too few minutes for the production he gives us. There is no reason for Holmes not to get into the game before th 12 minute media time out. Holmes not playing a lot of minutes is just a poor evaluation of talent and gives the opposition a break for 16 minutes per game. The minutes, in my opinion, should be reversed between Black and Holmes.
Orr has repeatedly let talent rot on the bench. That is what is so frustrating about following this program.
I noticed that Erger logged more minutes than Sealey. Sealey's lack of PT so far has me wondering if he's in some sort of trouble.
Same thoughts here. I wonder if its an off court thing.
In regard to Holmes, without having seen him, I get the feeling that he is a much better athlete then Black and more of an offensive weapon. Black is bigger and steadier? Would this be accurate?
Globe asked me to post my thoughts on the game and specifically the players, so I figured I'd throw it up here. For starters let me say that it was great to be back in the Stroh. I love my seats, I love the arena. I wish that we could draw more fans and actually build that great atmosphere, but oh well. There were a lot more students there than I remember seeing most of last year, so that was nice. Hopefully after a nice win like this they'll continue to come out to watch the team. As for the players here's what I saw:
Crawford: Well we DEFINITELY got good Crawford last night. Dude was just money. I don't like his jumper most of the time, but he was nailing 3s left and right last night. Also was doing a real good job penetrating and finishing inside as well. All in all a GREAT scoring game from our shooting...errr...point guard. That's the issue here...Crawford is a SG in a PG (and a small one's) body. When Clarke was on the court with him we saw a lot of Jordon at the 2 and I like that a lot better. Kid can score, but he still showed no signs of being a PG last night.
Calhoun: Looked to be largely what he has always been. He's skilled around the basket and can make some tough shots. He also still draws the double nearly every time he touches the ball. He also still failed to consistently find the open guy off the double, way too often made up his mind to be overly aggressive that he was going to shoot, and also let the officials lack of foul calls get into his head it seemed. He was pretty good at times last night, and is still super talented, but he's still a head case, IMO.
Black: Played a lotta minutes and was effective on the defensive end. He has soft touch around the rim and has shown some post moves, but we don't try to involve him on offense very much. Of course just as I was complaining about this during the game we did set him up in the post and he promptly turned it over, so who knows.
Kraus: The ring leader of the "I don't know why I have a D1 scholarship" club. Man is he terrible. I think the box score is wrong, I'm pretty sure he did actually hit a 3 last night (I think one of the ones credited to Henderson was actually Kraus). Still his jumper is that flat liner it's always been. He does nothing on the stat sheet to deserve 20+ minutes. And he's supposedly this gritty awesome defender? Well he was getting abused last night by nearly everybody he attempted to guard.
Orr: Did nothing to change my opinion of him. Offensively he's terrible. He's slow...can't dribble...and his jumper his all over the place. He did make a lot of free throws last night, although it wasn't his offensive aggressiveness getting him to the line. He was fouled once after grabbing a loose ball and another of the fouls was them trying to extend the game. Still, kudos for making the freebies lord knows we've had issues with that in the past. Orr did make a few nice plays defensively and he got some nice rebounds as well. I still don't think he really deserves a scholarship, and he is awful on offense, but on this team I think he'll continue playing 20+ minutes because who else will they go to?
Erger: Kraus's right hand man in that club. Dude looks like he's got cement in his shoes. Slow as molasses with the ball and constantly looked a step behind on defense. No clue how this guy gets 15 minutes. He did actually hit the one 3 ball, but most of the time he looks deathly afraid of shooting even when he HAS open looks, he passes them up.
Clarke: Jehvon, Jehvon, Jehvon...ugh. The talent is there, but good god he looked like a turnover waiting to happen everytime he touched it last night. Slow down kid, you can play this game, but you gotta control yourself. He was fumbling his dribble all over the place, and I know he's got some handles. For whatever reason he felt he was a 3 point shooter last night, and that is NOT his game. He had a few open looks but only made one. He did have a real nice drive to hit a mid range floater...I'd like to see him diong a lot more of that than spot up shooting the 3 ball. I see why he hasn't been getting minutes though...he just couldn't play under control last night on either end. He coughed it up a bunch and also was burnt a couple times on defense gambling trying to jump the pass lane.
Sealey: What to say but meh? I will say he no longer looks anything like Starvin' Marvin, so I guess that nickname is gone. He's definitely added some weight and looks stronger. I wonder if he's lost his quickness though? He didn't play much and when he did I don't remember much of anything that he did. He's always been quick in the post, I would like to see if he still has that quickness with the added weight and if he could actually do anything down there...
Holmes: This kid looks like he can flat out play. I loved what I saw last night. Played very few minutes, but just flat out produced when he was on the court. Had a nice offensive play for a dunk. Was grabbing rebounds and altering shots the entire time he was on the court. I absolutely LOVED Oglesby's dunks, but Holmes looks like he could be far more of a basketball player than Torian ever was.
Henderson: Came in and played a bit. His jumper still looks fluid and he nailed the only one I remember him taking. The box score said he was 2-2 but I really do think that one of those was actually Kraus.
All in all the team looks a lot like I thought it would. Clarke was disappointing, I hope he gets it together. Holmes looks very promising. Orr/Erger/Kraus were pretty much as expected and it's not good. Last night was a great win...they played awesome defense early on and built a lead that they never let go. Crawford was on the money. Unfortunately this team is entirely dependent on Crawford and Calhoun to lead them to any wins they may get...and I'm just not convinced either of them has matured enough as a player to be leaned on so heavily. I hope as the year goes on Clarke gets himself under control and we can see more of him & Holmes. If Orr/Kraus/Erger continue to log 60-70 minutes a game this is going to be a LONG year.
Edited to add: I'm thrilled they won last night, but I'm afraid they were WAY too dependent on the 3s. I don't think this team has the skill to consistently shoot > 40% from beyond the arc. Great they were dropping last night, but for this team to win I think they MUST get into the paint and score inside.
hammb wrote:....but I'm afraid they were WAY too dependent on the 3s. I don't think this team has the skill to consistently shoot > 40% from beyond the arc. Great they were dropping last night, but for this team to win I think they MUST get into the paint and score inside.
Spot on.
Nice job with the free throws last night (shot 77% overall and we made them down the stretch when we needed to).
"The name on the front of the jersey is more important than the name on the back" -Herb Brooks
My feeling on Chauncey, and this could be wrong as I have not seen him much, is that he is a decent utility guy. He doesn't do anything badly or extremely well. You don't get 8 rebounds in a game by being awful. He strikes me as the kind of player that you don't really need to feed often for him to do well. He is content with doing the dirty work, getting rebounds, being in the right place on defense, making the pass before the assist. That kind of thing. The kind of player who doesn't change games but who when he is in everything just seems to run more smoothly. That very well could be inaccurate. I see him almost like a poor man's Erik Crawford or a different style Germain Fitch/Mawel Soler. Guys who are not great but can provide decent thinks here and there. Crawford was a really good on defense and turned out to be a pretty good offensive player as well.
A question that I don't think has been addressed...How do you think starting Orr, which for any evaluation is certainly able to be questioned, affects the rest of the team? With him being the coaches son there tends to be the fear that they get time based more on his relationship then his play. Certainly, although I don't think he is as bad as Hammb does, it's not like he is a star. I think if it's between Erger or Orr then it's a no brainer for me. Orr and Parker or Sealey I don't know.
hammb wrote:Sealey: What to say but meh? I will say he no longer looks anything like Starvin' Marvin, so I guess that nickname is gone. He's definitely added some weight and looks stronger. I wonder if he's lost his quickness though? He didn't play much and when he did I don't remember much of anything that he did. He's always been quick in the post, I would like to see if he still has that quickness with the added weight and if he could actually do anything down there...
Has he muscled himself up so much that he can no longer be an effective 3?
hammb wrote:Sealey: What to say but meh? I will say he no longer looks anything like Starvin' Marvin, so I guess that nickname is gone. He's definitely added some weight and looks stronger. I wonder if he's lost his quickness though? He didn't play much and when he did I don't remember much of anything that he did. He's always been quick in the post, I would like to see if he still has that quickness with the added weight and if he could actually do anything down there...
Has he muscled himself up so much that he can no longer be an effective 3?
Honestly don't know. I've always been somewhat torn on Sealey. I loved his athleticism, but I've always kinda thought he was caught between a 3/4 as is. His best offensive game has always been that of a 4. He's usually been quick with a spin move in the post, and he's been able to hit the spot up mid range jumper as well. However, he's never shown the ability to slash and attack from the perimeter that I would want from a SF. Unfortunately, he's always been an undersized PF, especially on the defensive end.
I think his bulking up probably means he fits more of the PF mold and is probably going to be even less of a viable option at 3.
To your evaluation of Chauncey you could be correct. The only things I see him doing well are the hustle plays. His rebounds last night were usually the cleaning up the garbage type...getting to a loose ball, but not exactly boxing out and attacking the glass. He was usually where he needed to be defensively too. Offensively though he cannot shoot, and he's SLOW. When he tries to attack (which is rarely) he just looks like he's in slow motion. 90% of the time when he gets the ball it's just to pass it back to Calhoun/Crawford. Maybe a team could survive with a guy like him getting minutes and doing the dirty work (especially when there aren't any other real SFs on the roster), but with Kraus out there as well? You can't really operate when 2 of your starting 5 are only out there on offense for show. It's like we're playing 3 on 5....and Cam Black isn't exactly an offensive force either.
Which brings me to my other thought...this team doesn't have a real SF. Or a true PG. Crawford & Clarke are probably both better off at the 2. Chauncey is the closest thing the team has to a SF, but offensively he's next to worthless. How in god's name does this team expect to score on a nightly basis? I honestly think if I were defending this team I'd put 2 guys on Crawford and 2 on Calhoun. Leave a guy in the middle to stuff up Black, and basically say if Orr/Kraus actually make a shot, so be it. It's really disgusting that we have that level of players taking up so many minutes...I'm trying to think back to some of Dan's final teams and while they were pretty horrid I don't even think he had a trio as bad as Erger/Orr/Kraus getting this sort of minutes.
The scariest part to me is what does this team become if Crawford/Calhoun get injured or get into foul trouble. Crawford bailed out awful offense on several occasions against a Detroit team not known for defense. It goes back to what I still stand shocked by, using a schollie on a transfer big who averaged 5ppg in high school rather than someone who could help immediately.
hammb wrote:Crawford: Well we DEFINITELY got good Crawford last night. Dude was just money. I don't like his jumper most of the time, but he was nailing 3s left and right last night. Also was doing a real good job penetrating and finishing inside as well. All in all a GREAT scoring game from our shooting...errr...point guard. That's the issue here...Crawford is a SG in a PG (and a small one's) body. When Clarke was on the court with him we saw a lot of Jordon at the 2 and I like that a lot better. Kid can score, but he still showed no signs of being a PG last night.
Calhoun: Looked to be largely what he has always been. He's skilled around the basket and can make some tough shots. He also still draws the double nearly every time he touches the ball. He also still failed to consistently find the open guy off the double, way too often made up his mind to be overly aggressive that he was going to shoot, and also let the officials lack of foul calls get into his head it seemed. He was pretty good at times last night, and is still super talented, but he's still a head case, IMO.
Black: Played a lotta minutes and was effective on the defensive end. He has soft touch around the rim and has shown some post moves, but we don't try to involve him on offense very much. Of course just as I was complaining about this during the game we did set him up in the post and he promptly turned it over, so who knows.
Kraus: The ring leader of the "I don't know why I have a D1 scholarship" club. Man is he terrible. I think the box score is wrong, I'm pretty sure he did actually hit a 3 last night (I think one of the ones credited to Henderson was actually Kraus). Still his jumper is that flat liner it's always been. He does nothing on the stat sheet to deserve 20+ minutes. And he's supposedly this gritty awesome defender? Well he was getting abused last night by nearly everybody he attempted to guard.
Orr: Did nothing to change my opinion of him. Offensively he's terrible. He's slow...can't dribble...and his jumper his all over the place. He did make a lot of free throws last night, although it wasn't his offensive aggressiveness getting him to the line. He was fouled once after grabbing a loose ball and another of the fouls was them trying to extend the game. Still, kudos for making the freebies lord knows we've had issues with that in the past. Orr did make a few nice plays defensively and he got some nice rebounds as well. I still don't think he really deserves a scholarship, and he is awful on offense, but on this team I think he'll continue playing 20+ minutes because who else will they go to?
Erger: Kraus's right hand man in that club. Dude looks like he's got cement in his shoes. Slow as molasses with the ball and constantly looked a step behind on defense. No clue how this guy gets 15 minutes. He did actually hit the one 3 ball, but most of the time he looks deathly afraid of shooting even when he HAS open looks, he passes them up.
Clarke: Jehvon, Jehvon, Jehvon...ugh. The talent is there, but good god he looked like a turnover waiting to happen everytime he touched it last night. Slow down kid, you can play this game, but you gotta control yourself. He was fumbling his dribble all over the place, and I know he's got some handles. For whatever reason he felt he was a 3 point shooter last night, and that is NOT his game. He had a few open looks but only made one. He did have a real nice drive to hit a mid range floater...I'd like to see him diong a lot more of that than spot up shooting the 3 ball. I see why he hasn't been getting minutes though...he just couldn't play under control last night on either end. He coughed it up a bunch and also was burnt a couple times on defense gambling trying to jump the pass lane.
Sealey: What to say but meh? I will say he no longer looks anything like Starvin' Marvin, so I guess that nickname is gone. He's definitely added some weight and looks stronger. I wonder if he's lost his quickness though? He didn't play much and when he did I don't remember much of anything that he did. He's always been quick in the post, I would like to see if he still has that quickness with the added weight and if he could actually do anything down there...
Holmes: This kid looks like he can flat out play. I loved what I saw last night. Played very few minutes, but just flat out produced when he was on the court. Had a nice offensive play for a dunk. Was grabbing rebounds and altering shots the entire time he was on the court. I absolutely LOVED Oglesby's dunks, but Holmes looks like he could be far more of a basketball player than Torian ever was.
Henderson: Came in and played a bit. His jumper still looks fluid and he nailed the only one I remember him taking. The box score said he was 2-2 but I really do think that one of those was actually Kraus.
I agree 100% with everything you said about each player. It was like I put that together myself. I certainly see this team, and each player, as you do, without a doubt.
debtorange wrote:Holmes is a center...Oglesby was a foward that's the difference
Not sure what you mean. Oglesby might have played more if he was bigger and could defend centers better. As for Tuesday, Black was +8 and Holmes -3 in +/- per statsheet.com. I'll trust Orr's PT decision, especially in a win.
