Luke Kraus' stats are downright embarrassing!

[Globetrotter]

I thought Erger had a nice game today. Played well on the full court pressure and even knocked down a shot or two. Actually added some energy to the game and it was certainly needed after scoring only 17 points in the first half.
Great to see Anthony Stacy at the game! I would guess he scored 17 in the first half himself a few times!

Great to hear. Maybe it's a confidence and agressiveness thing.

[Flipper]

GT...Erger is the symbol of your fixation with Erger...he's a college basketball player. Has he had a great career?...No. Has anyone counted on him to lead the team no... Has he hurt his team as much as the 5'-6 PG that can't run an offense and shot 4-17 today? No....

[Globetrotter]

GT...Erger is the symbol of your fixation with Erger...he's a college basketball player. Has he had a great career?...No. Has anyone counted on him to lead the team no... Has he hurt his team as much as the 5'-6 PG that can't run an offense and shot 4-17 today? No....

Your ridiculous if you think Crawford is the problem compared to a player of Ergers stature receiving minutes. It's just logically nonsensical. Erger's ceiling is a little higher then mine.

[Flipper]

Basketball 101 there genius...a streaky shoot first starting PG with a high TO/Assist ratio is going to have a far greater impact on the outcome of the game than the guy getting 10 minutes a night. You want to talk "symbols"? Crawford is undersized, inconsistent and his approach to the game is seriously flawed. He's the perfect symbol of a Louis Orr basketball team.

If anything, Erger is the basketball equivalent of John Pettigrew...a guy who improves enough in his sr ye r that he warrants more PT

[Globetrotter]

Comparing erger and Crawford tells me all I need to know about your basketball intelligence

[Flipper]

You really don't follow conversations well, do you? Crawford=streaky, inconsistent. BGSU basketball under Orr=streaky, inconsistent. How does Jordan Crawford NOT epitomize the sad state of BGSU basketball?

[Globetrotter]

You brought in Crawford and then started talking about who hurt the team more... I am not sure that you are following your own role in this conversation.

[gmartin]

Globe,

Your are really beginning to piss people off in these forums. First in football and now in basketball. Personally I think your two cans shy of a 24 pack. Forget to take your daily pills. Flipped is correct, Crawford hurts the team way more than Erger. In baseball they have a stat called WAR. In basketball, for Crawfords sake we should have the stat WUR, Wins Under Replacement. I don't understand tou Globe. You say your not going to come to any games. You say your not going to watch any games. You even said Why bother following this team. So I ask, were you not on your pills and was that the other Globe because all you do is b$tch, b$tch, b$tch. In basketball we have substitutions. Can we please sub Dustin for Globe.

[Globetrotter]

Globe,

Your are really beginning to piss people off in these forums. First in football and now in basketball. Personally I think your two cans shy of a 24 pack. Forget to take your daily pills. Flipped is correct, Crawford hurts the team way more than Erger. In baseball they have a stat called WAR. In basketball, for Crawfords sake we should have the stat WUR, Wins Under Replacement. I don't understand tou Globe. You say your not going to come to any games. You say your not going to watch any games. You even said Why bother following this team. So I ask, were you not on your pills and was that the other Globe because all you do is b$tch, b$tch, b$tch. In basketball we have substitutions. Can we please sub Dustin for Globe.

At this point I am convinced you can't read. Flipper is changing positions throughout the conversation and discussing seperate points. It doesn't take much to piss him off, all you have to do is challenge him a little bit and he will refuse to back down and spin himself into a tiff. In the end I still really like him though. He provides some excellent talking points and humor. You on the other hand provide nothing. Absolutely nothing. Joking about mental health is absurd too. It's just a very imature way to have a conversation, which doesn't surprise me with the other topics you throw out. You really can't read or you are taking 3 or 4 posters from the board and attributing what they say to me. I have said one time....1 time.....that I really didn't care if I watched the game that night. I never said I would never watch a game again or that I wouldn't go to games etc...others have said it...not me. In fact Flipper himself said it a few threads ago in regards to the MSU game I believe. I watch every game I can and post links for others to watch them. You talk about me bitching, show me where I bitched in this thread. I didn't even bitch about Erger. I simply was trying to explain why Erger gets the focus in a thread like this. I didn't bring Erger up, I didn't lead this thread, which is about Luke Kraus by the way.

In addition, don't ever joke about people on meds. I work with these things every day. Would you joke about people who are fighting diabetes? An alcohol addiction, cancer? I assume no, but with you I don't know. With all of the wisdom you have accumulated over your life I would assume you would have gained that.

And again, you act like you are some knight rushing in to say what everyone else is thinking. You are not. Go away if all you will bring in is this negative personal attack bs.

[guest44]

The lack of talent across the board hurts this team. A mediocre coach hurts this team. A pathetic administration that gave this coach an extension, hurts this team. Expecting any human who has seen this team play live to pay $35 dollars, to play anything short of the Miami Heat or 12 naked Playboy playmates is laughable. Greg Fundraiser and his revolving door of staff are totally lost. Long gone are the days of Jim Elsasser and his 1 man security force. Now he sells 50/50 tickets, and we employ a mini National Guard to protect the safety of all of 1000 fans. Greg Fundraiser got the arena built, and has no clue what to do with it.

[hammb]

Sorry Globe, but I gotta agree with Flipper. Crawford is far more responsible for the state of this team than Erger. Now obviously Crawford is a better player than Erger, but his 10 minutes a game pale by comparison of impact with Crawford's 35 minutes of being the primary ball handler.

Really though none of these players are responsible for the state of BG basketball. It's our coach that hasn't been able to bring in anything better than this that is the problem. We've got an inconsistent, selfish, PG to lead the team. His right hand man is a headcase PF. Beyond that we start a slow unathletic Center, a slashing SF who cannot get to the rim nor make a jump shot, and a SG who's specialty is defense and means you're basically playing shorthanded on offense every possession. Off the bench we've got some athletic turnovers waiting to happen and a young athletic big man who looks as though he could do some good things here.

When trying to figure out where to assess blame I don't think we can really do that on any of these kids. They're just not good enough as a whole. We still don't have a PG. We still don't have a jump shooter. And one thing that is PAINFULLY obvious in all these games we're playing against vastly inferior teams is that even THOSE teams have far more creativity and skill in actually RUNNING an offense.

[Globetrotter]

Sorry Globe, but I gotta agree with Flipper. Crawford is far more responsible for the state of this team than Erger. Now obviously Crawford is a better player than Erger, but his 10 minutes a game pale by comparison of impact with Crawford's 35 minutes of being the primary ball handler.

Really though none of these players are responsible for the state of BG basketball. It's our coach that hasn't been able to bring in anything better than this that is the problem. We've got an inconsistent, selfish, PG to lead the team. His right hand man is a headcase PF. Beyond that we start a slow unathletic Center, a slashing SF who cannot get to the rim nor make a jump shot, and a SG who's specialty is defense and means you're basically playing shorthanded on offense every possession. Off the bench we've got some athletic turnovers waiting to happen and a young athletic big man who looks as though he could do some good things here.

When trying to figure out where to assess blame I don't think we can really do that on any of these kids. They're just not good enough as a whole. We still don't have a PG. We still don't have a jump shooter. And one thing that is PAINFULLY obvious in all these games we're playing against vastly inferior teams is that even THOSE teams have far more creativity and skill in actually RUNNING an offense.

You know I don't think as negatively of Crawford as you guys do, and along with that sentiment, I just don't see how the only 2 guys who seem to have above average skills and have really carried this team to a winning record so far are to blame. That's how flipper shaped the argument to start and that's what I was responding to.

For me the biggest problem is not Crawford or Calhoun (although I agree that they are less than stellar) It's guys like Kraus and Erger getting minutes and guys with infinitely higher ceilings like Sealey and Clarke riding the bench, not getting a chance to develop. You phrased your wording perfectly "that we start a slow unathletic Center". We start Black when it's seemingly obvious that Holmes gives us way more. I think it's that relationship that might epitimize whats wrong with this program more than even Erger. With Erger there isn't a SF who looks very good not getting time because he is. Sealey and Parker maybe, but that's a prognostication. Holmes seems to outplay Black in every category, yet he still rides the bench and is seeing comparable minutes. And I don't think badly about Black either.

[hammb]

Sorry Globe, but I gotta agree with Flipper. Crawford is far more responsible for the state of this team than Erger. Now obviously Crawford is a better player than Erger, but his 10 minutes a game pale by comparison of impact with Crawford's 35 minutes of being the primary ball handler.

Really though none of these players are responsible for the state of BG basketball. It's our coach that hasn't been able to bring in anything better than this that is the problem. We've got an inconsistent, selfish, PG to lead the team. His right hand man is a headcase PF. Beyond that we start a slow unathletic Center, a slashing SF who cannot get to the rim nor make a jump shot, and a SG who's specialty is defense and means you're basically playing shorthanded on offense every possession. Off the bench we've got some athletic turnovers waiting to happen and a young athletic big man who looks as though he could do some good things here.

When trying to figure out where to assess blame I don't think we can really do that on any of these kids. They're just not good enough as a whole. We still don't have a PG. We still don't have a jump shooter. And one thing that is PAINFULLY obvious in all these games we're playing against vastly inferior teams is that even THOSE teams have far more creativity and skill in actually RUNNING an offense.

You know I don't think as negatively of Crawford as you guys do, and along with that sentiment, I just don't see how the only 2 guys who seem to have above average skills and have really carried this team to a winning record so far are to blame. That's how flipper shaped the argument to start and that's what I was responding to.

For me the biggest problem is not Crawford or Calhoun (although I agree that they are less than stellar) It's guys like Kraus and Erger getting minutes and guys with infinitely higher ceilings like Sealey and Clarke riding the bench, not getting a chance to develop. You phrased your wording perfectly "that we start a slow unathletic Center". We start Black when it's seemingly obvious that Holmes gives us way more. I think it's that relationship that might epitimize whats wrong with this program more than even Erger. With Erger there isn't a SF who looks very good not getting time because he is. Sealey and Parker maybe, but that's a prognostication. Holmes seems to outplay Black in every category, yet he still rides the bench and is seeing comparable minutes. And I don't think badly about Black either.

I find it nearly impossible anymore to pick out what is most to blame for this program. On the one hand you've got Calhoun & Crawford. They're clearly our best players. Without them we'd be even WORSE. Yet, they're also both seriously flawed players. I can easily say that if these 2 guys are your best players you're going to be a bad MAC team.

On the other hand you've got Orr, Kraus, and Black. None of these guys are anything more than filler, really. I could just as easily say the big problem with the team is why these guys are playing so many minutes. I can easily say that having guys like this starting are why we're not good.

I don't really think there is a great answer. We're built around a couple flawed players that aren't good enough to be your key players. The role players aren't as good as role players should be. The sub patterns still make no sense. The offense is still stale and looks lost for long stretches of the games.

At this point the entire mess needs to be laid right at the feet of Mr. Orr. I don't think we can look any further than that.

[BleedOrange]

Okay.

We know that Crawford and Calhoun are decent but unreliable players that you cannot build a winning team around.

We also know that in Kraus and Orr we have to very UNathletic players playing two very athletically demanding positions. We have three great athletes on our bench (Sealey, Henderson, Clarke) who have not developed at all. Additionally, we've seen players like Holmes and Oglesby inexplicably play part-time behind a slow and soft big-man. None of these facts are essentially more important than the other. They coexist and indicate clueless coach and a piss-poor basketball program overall. We also have a clueless AD and basketball event & facility policies that are doing everything possible to alienate the fans community.

Hammb, Flip, Globe, gmartin...your arguing is completely unnecessary.

[HoopsFan]

If this were my team, I'd be starting Holmes, Henderson, Clarke, Calhoun and Sealey until they died or fouled out. The sleepy Cam Black and the streaky Crawford and Orr can sit on the bench.

It's not a great result, but Kraus and Erger seem to play well together when Crawford is in his "put up anythng because I can" mode and on the bench. Our defense seems to feed our pathetic offense. I hate to admit it, but if Erger would start shooting more, we might like the results. As others have mentioned, I wasn't offered a scholarship to a division ANYTHING school, so my skillz must not have been good

It was funny because toward the end of the game, Bill Wammes (Al Mar lanes) told Anthony Stacey that he got to see BOTH BG men's teams.

Stace's team (Medina) is 0-1, but he feels they can go deep into the tournament. Yeah, well practice your coaching skills, because we might need you next year.

HoopsFan