The 2013 Baseball thread.....

[Flipper]

Tigers keep Sanchez and add Torii Hunter..the Tribe flip Soo and add Swisher, Bourn and possibly Lohse. With KC adding Shields and Santana to a solid young lineup....I don't think there's a bad team in the AL Central.

It's the Tiger's to lose...but I don't see it being a cakewalk.

[Lord_Byron]

The Twins are bad.

And I agree, Tigers division to lose with what could be some entertaining baseball in the interim.

[hammb]

I still think the Indians are doing what the Indians have always done under Dolan. Sign mid tier FAs to $8-12 million per year deals in a feeble attempt to make it look like you're trying to compete.

But in the end they lost their best player and replaced him with a similar offensive version and MUCH lesser defensive version in Nick Swisher. Stubbs & Bourn are fast guys that can't get on base and have no power...I can't believe they paid that much for Michael freaking Bourn...they'll be regretting THAT deal in the not too distant future, I imagine. I like Swisher, but he's a downgrade from Choo, and he's older than Choo...I don't think I would have wanted to commit 5 years to him. I do like the Reynolds signing, I think he'll be a solid bat for them. Stubbs is a younger crappier version of Bourn.

I expect the Indians to be the Indians again...competing for a little while then falling off to the bottom of the division. They still haven't developed any young players, their pitching will still be crappy. They're just trying to throw a bit of money at players entering the downside of their careers and hoping to catch some lightning in a bottle. I actually like the Indians. I'm a Tigers fan, but I don't hate the Indians...I'd like to see Cleveland competing for the division with Detroit. I just cannot figure out why they make the decisions they do...it's not the right way to build a baseball team...

I like the Tigers team this year. The rotation of Verlander-Scherzer-Fister-Sanchez is the best in the AL if it stays healthy, regardless of who ends up as the #5. The bullpen could be a struggle this year, so hopefully those guys perform as expected. I think Prince will show some more power this year as he settles into the AL, and Miggy is Miggy. Hunter is a HUGE upgrade defensively over what they had, and while he won't duplicate what he did last year, should provide solid offensive production for the #2 slot. I'm worried about V-Mart coming off the injury, but with their rotation and the pretty much guaranteed production from Cabrera/Fielder I think they'll score enough runs to win that division again.

Whether I'm right or wrong about any of these teams the one thing I know is that I'm VERY ready for some baseball.

[Flipper]

The Twins...I know that SP is a huge issue...but Morneau showed some life in the second half last year. I refuse to label a team that can run a lineup with Morneau/Mauer/Willingham and Plouffe every day "bad" until I actually see the SP give up 5 runs a night

[gmartin]

Fwiw, VMart said this is the best he has felt in the past 8 years. Word out of Lakeland is he is really driving the ball well to the fences. We are not asking him to hit HRs but if he can be a gap hitter and be 80% productive that's better than that spot from last year.

[hammb]

The Twins...I know that SP is a huge issue...but Morneau showed some life in the second half last year. I refuse to label a team that can run a lineup with Morneau/Mauer/Willingham and Plouffe every day "bad" until I actually see the SP give up 5 runs a night

I like the Twins lineup, but keeping Mauer & Morneau healthy for a season is near impossible.

And their pitching is dreadful.

[Redwingtom]

A prediction, albeit last week before the Injuns added Bourn, was that the AL Central would have the lowest overall winning percentage in the majors. I think it's still one of the two worst regardless.

[Class of 61]

I admit I don't know much about Bourne, but he was mentioned last nite on Cleve. Newscasts as a 2 time all-star....Even if he was the ONLY Brave to be selected, that's not too shabby... Frankly, most baseball fans in Cleveland are surprised that the Dolan's would fork out more cash. But they DID get some bucks for STO and stand to get more via new TV contracts etc.
Hambb,
I know you're alluding to the fact that Choo was their "best player" , but believe me, he was far from it last year. Seems like he's gone downhill since the DUI of a few yrs. ago...and he's NOT been a good Defensive OF, other than possessing a strong arm. Even that factor seemed to be less impressive last year.

I like what the tribe has done...is it enough? probably not...but the fact that Francona has seemingly forced them into making some moves just MIGHT make this a somewhat more enjoyable season, especially if the SP can get straightened out.

[Flipper]

Re the AL Central...I think KC will be a surprise. I think the Chisox will be decent. Clev will be improved and the Twins will score a lot...I hate dismissing the Twins because they're the fricking Twins and the minute you write them off they come back and kill you.

Detroit is the ony legit WS contender in the division, but the group as a whole is stronger this year than last.

[hammb]

I admit I don't know much about Bourne, but he was mentioned last nite on Cleve. Newscasts as a 2 time all-star....Even if he was the ONLY Brave to be selected, that's not too shabby... Frankly, most baseball fans in Cleveland are surprised that the Dolan's would fork out more cash. But they DID get some bucks for STO and stand to get more via new TV contracts etc.
Hambb,
I know you're alluding to the fact that Choo was their "best player" , but believe me, he was far from it last year. Seems like he's gone downhill since the DUI of a few yrs. ago...and he's NOT been a good Defensive OF, other than possessing a strong arm. Even that factor seemed to be less impressive last year.

I like what the tribe has done...is it enough? probably not...but the fact that Francona has seemingly forced them into making some moves just MIGHT make this a somewhat more enjoyable season, especially if the SP can get straightened out.

The problem I have with the Indians' moves is that it seems like they're forking out more cash so they can say to Indians fans, "See, we spent some money!!" But at the end of the season I don't think their additions are going to amount to much more than a couple wins over last year..I suppose if it's combined with the guys they return playing better they may win an additional 10-15 games (seems a stretch) but even 15 wins only gets them up to 83.

Personally, I'm not a fan of signing guys like Bourn/Swisher unless you're looking to add a piece to an already competitive team. Neither of those guys are going to propel the Indians to greatness over the course of their 4-5 years, but it is certainly possible that their contracts are going to prohibit them from re-investing in scouting/player development, which is where an organization like the Indians needs to be putting its resources at this time. $10 million goes a LOT further in signing the top international FAs or top draftable talent than simply adding a player like Michael Bourn.

As to him being a 2 time All Star? Yes, he is. But that's hardly the measure of a great player. I'm sure in Cleveland it's all going to painted rosey but if you want some background on Bourn, here's some quick thoughts: For starters he's 30 years old. This is typically the point where a player starts to go downhill a bit. Secondly his one truly great attribute is his speed. He uses this speed to be a big time base stealing threat and also a gold glove caliber center fielder. With his speed he'll most assuredly be in the leadoff spot, and he gets on base at a respectable (albeit not great) .340-.350 clip over the course of the past several years (.339 for his career). Incidentally, he's right about in line with Michael Brantley with regards to getting on base...somewhere ~25th in the AL. Unfortunately he also combines it with absolutely no extra base ability...even with that speed he's not legging out many extra bases. His OPS last year would have ranked 5th last year on the Indians behind Choo, Santana, Cabrera, and Brantley (would be behind Mark Reynolds and Swisher as well).

What I'm getting at with Bourn is that he's a nice player, but despite those all star appearances, I don't think he's a guy that is going to propel you to many wins, and I certainly wouldn't be happy paying him $12 million per year. I want to see the Indians as the team that challenges the Tigers...I hate the rest of the AL central, and it really pains me when I see them continually make poor decisions like this. If Bourn ages and loses that speed he's lost almost all value as a player.

As for Choo, I think you're way off base. I get that they weren't going to be able to lock him up, so you move him now. I even really like Bauer as a prospect so I think they got something nice back in return. But he was absolutely the Indians best player, and it's not even close. He led them in both On-Base and Slugging and thus led in OPS by 30 points. Even if his defense was in decline I still think he had one of the better arms in RF in the AL, and is certainly better defensively than Swisher.

I hope the best for the Indians...I just would not be a fan of their moves if I was an Indians fan. Especially since what we're really glossing over is the fact that their pitching was horrendous last year and the only thing they added there was Meyers and who knows what you'll get from him...

[Flipper]

The problem I have with signing these guys is the draft picks. They don't lose the #1, but they lose their 2nd rd and competitive balance pick (#71). So they got older and gave up 2 draft picks in the top 75? I understand the need to become more competitive and generate some ticket sales and fan interest...but this seems like a short term answer to a long term issue.

But...when you only draw 19,000 or so a night...that might be viewed as the biggest problem.

[hammb]

The problem I have with signing these guys is the draft picks. They don't lose the #1, but they lose their 2nd rd and competitive balance pick (#71). So they got older and gave up 2 draft picks in the top 75? I understand the need to become more competitive and generate some ticket sales and fan interest...but this seems like a short term answer to a long term issue.

But...when you only draw 19,000 or so a night...that might be viewed as the biggest problem.

Good point on the draft picks. I knew they had their #1 protected, but didn't realize they were losing their next 2 picks still...OUCH that stings...

And for the attendance I think that's exactly what WON'T be helped by adding guys like these. You gain attendance by developing young stars and winning. These additions aren't likely to make the team appreciably better, and certainly aren't the type of signings to generate major buzz that gets tons of additional butts in seats.

Moreover, if you were willing to fork out the cash I have a feeling you could have locked up Choo for similar money to what they gave to Bourn or Swisher, and I still say he's a better player than either of them.

The Indians farm system has been in absolute shambles. Lee & Sabathia were their shots to re-stock that system and they pretty much struck out across the board on all of those prospects. Until they start developing some real prospects in that system signing guys like Swisher & Bourn are just trying to plug the holes in the dam with bubble gum, as far as I'm concerned.

[Falconfreak90]

I predict the Akron Aeros will win the Eastern League title for the 5th time in 12 yrs while the parent club, the Indians, will struggle to break .500. How about we move the Aeros up to Cleveland and move the Indians down to Canal Park? Lol.

[RobbyFalcon]

Stubbs & Bourn are fast guys that can't get on base and have no power...

Stubbs has plenty of power, when and if he ever connects. He is not a slap hitter at all. Some fans wanted him to sacrifice his power for more contact and ground balls. Granted he played in the tiny little GAB, but he hit some monster shots. You're right though, he is really fast and he can not get on base. He also strikes out a lot.

[Flipper]

Does anyone actually believe Ryan Braun when he says he's never used PED's?....anyone?