ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! FOR GOD'S SAKE MAKE A CHANGE!

BGSU Men's Basketball!!
User avatar
hammb
The Stabber of Cherries
The Stabber of Cherries
Posts: 14335
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2004 8:21 am
Location: Bowling Green

Re: ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! FOR GOD'S SAKE MAKE A CHANGE!

Post by hammb »

SicSicalum wrote: What I hope to be on my mind is the impact I hopefully have made in other people's lives concerning God's grace, love & mercy. In support of my brother Louis (and I hope you are reading this!!), maybe, just maybe that is his priority as well.
Respectfully submitted,
SicSic Alum

If that's his priority I have no problem with it. But he should become a door to door bible thumper if it is.

BGSU is paying him a six figure salary to win basketball games and to do so within the boundaries of NCAA legislation. He's done a fine job keeping the program clean, but he hasn't won crap.

This program, Mr. Frack, and the fans at the brand new arena all deserve better. I have no problem with a person having faith. I have a big problem hiding behind it everytime somebody asks him a tough question. And I have an even bigger problem with his continuous losing.
User avatar
MarkL
Peregrine
Peregrine
Posts: 5558
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 11:23 am
Location: Greater Washington DC area

Re: ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! FOR GOD'S SAKE MAKE A CHANGE!

Post by MarkL »

Louis Orr is a great man. A great mentor. If I had a son Louis Orr is the kind of man I would trust to be his mentor and coach for four years in college. The comments criticizing his faith are I think off the mark. What is on the mark, though, is his record as a head coach. I see evidence of the program support pointed in the right direction ... the new arena, the student support, the big donations. What is not pointed in the right direction is the actual product in that arena. It is stuck in neutral. He had one big season in 2008/09 where he turned Dakich's recruits and his own initial recruits, including a young Scott Thomas, into a good team. Last year was a decent season with a bad ending. That's been it for decent to good seasons. Louis Orr hasn't done anything bad in his time here, but I don't see what he's done to make me believe he should continue coaching. Whether the change is made in the coming days or the administration lets his contract run out after next season, I don't see a good reason for Orr to continue being the head coach.
MarkL has spoken.
You may all now return to your daily lives.
threestooges
Peregrine
Peregrine
Posts: 924
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 1:00 pm
Location: Ohio
Contact:

Re: ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! FOR GOD'S SAKE MAKE A CHANGE!

Post by threestooges »

MarkL wrote:Louis Orr is a great man. A great mentor. If I had a son Louis Orr is the kind of man I would trust to be his mentor and coach for four years in college. The comments criticizing his faith are I think off the mark. What is on the mark, though, is his record as a head coach. I see evidence of the program support pointed in the right direction ... the new arena, the student support, the big donations. What is not pointed in the right direction is the actual product in that arena. It is stuck in neutral. He had one big season in 2008/09 where he turned Dakich's recruits and his own initial recruits, including a young Scott Thomas, into a good team. Last year was a decent season with a bad ending. That's been it for decent to good seasons. Louis Orr hasn't done anything bad in his time here, but I don't see what he's done to make me believe he should continue coaching. Whether the change is made in the coming days or the administration lets his contract run out after next season, I don't see a good reason for Orr to continue being the head coach.
Could not agree more. If people want him fired because of the win-loss record, the product on the court, etc., I have no problem with that. I DO have a problem with people criticizing his faith. Well said, MarkL.
threestooges
Peregrine
Peregrine
Posts: 924
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 1:00 pm
Location: Ohio
Contact:

Re: ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! FOR GOD'S SAKE MAKE A CHANGE!

Post by threestooges »

CrazyFan wrote:
Class of 61 wrote:
CrazyFan wrote:
bg1984 wrote:It just seems so obvious that a change is needed; how could the administration not come to the same conclusion?
Because our athletic administration is headed up by a Fundraising Clueless Clown who has no idea how to run the "athletics" part in the athletic department. He can get s**t built; but he can also cut scholarship after scholarship and let useless, and mean useless coaches like Louis Orr stick around after just a s**t product has been put on the court for so long. So in my book, Christopher has not a clue what he's doing. Him and Louie and the entire men's basketball staff needs to high tail it out of BG as soon as they can. I'm sick of this crap!

I know you guys LOVE to put this all on Christopher, and cite his "terrible" hirings etc.
I look at Football, women's basketball(recent hire), women's swimming, guy's soccer, hockey, volleyball, and perhaps track (too soon to tell definitely) as some pretty decent hires. Do I think and agree that Orr needs to go? YES! But to throw the A.D. under the bus and say all he can do is "fundraise" just doesn't seem to be true, IMO. [-X
I look at Football and see a coach that is still unproven. He comes out and wins the MAC this year, then yes it was a good hire. Is BG Football better? Yes. Have we won a MAC Championship under Clausen? No. Did we have opportunities? Yes. Did Clausen have the boys ready to go? No. So if Clausen doesn't win it this year one could argue that even though BG Football is better, we still don't have the coach to take us to that next level.

As far as womens basketball, you can't come close to saying Roos was the right hire. She in her 1st year and ALREADY has a huge scandal under her watch. Not to mention her team losing a few games they had absolutely no business losing. If Miller was still coach, would they of lost tose games? I'm not saying she's a bad coach. Just saying give it a few years before you start crediting the Fundraising Clown with a good hire.

Hockey. Once again, the program is better. But is it going to get to national prominence under Bergeron? WAY to early to tell. They have had some bad losses this year. Everyone is still living on the possible Louis Orr type of run (that he had before his extension) in the Playoffs last year.

Volleyball looks like a good hire, but the volleyball program doesn't generate any income to help pay some of the bills. As far as womens swimming and guys soccer, I can't comment as I know nothing about those programs. I guess my point is Christopher has shown me lots more negative decisions than positive. If his hires end up working out in the future and win the university some championships, then ill probably change my opinion. But so far not 1 hire in a MAJOR university sport has done anything noteworthy while he cuts scholarships and holds onto coaches whom are completely worthless while insisting that "directionally" the program is doing good.
What about baseball? Coach Schmitz seems like a nice enough guy, but they've had losing records the last two years, are 3-9 this year (yes, I know it is early in the season) and haven't done anything of note in the MAC Tournament in roughly a decade. Mr. Christopher could get rid of that coach, bring in a young guy for a lower salary & save some money there. Should he do that? Using your argument, why "waste" money paying a coach in his third decade, when we don't charge admission & have no chance to make that money back?

In no way do I think Coach Schmitz should be let go, I'm just using baseball as an example.
User avatar
ZuluWarrior
Peregrine
Peregrine
Posts: 1055
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2004 9:19 pm
Location: Born and Raised in The D! Indoctrinated in BG! Living Near Chicago

Re: ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! FOR GOD'S SAKE MAKE A CHANGE!

Post by ZuluWarrior »

If someone in the public eye puts their religious beliefs in their professional role they have to accept the fact that in America people can say 'I don't like it'. Our forefathers And mothers left Great Britain to keep religion from being forced upon them. Personally, as an alum of a public university, i would prefer religion stays out of public discourse.

And Orr has been a bad coach in a horrible league for the last five years and for this he should be fired. He's the Matt Millen of college basketball coaches.
Falcon137
Peregrine
Peregrine
Posts: 3246
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:24 pm

Re: ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! FOR GOD'S SAKE MAKE A CHANGE!

Post by Falcon137 »

threestooges wrote:
CrazyFan wrote:
Class of 61 wrote:
CrazyFan wrote:
bg1984 wrote:It just seems so obvious that a change is needed; how could the administration not come to the same conclusion?
Because our athletic administration is headed up by a Fundraising Clueless Clown who has no idea how to run the "athletics" part in the athletic department. He can get s**t built; but he can also cut scholarship after scholarship and let useless, and mean useless coaches like Louis Orr stick around after just a s**t product has been put on the court for so long. So in my book, Christopher has not a clue what he's doing. Him and Louie and the entire men's basketball staff needs to high tail it out of BG as soon as they can. I'm sick of this crap!

I know you guys LOVE to put this all on Christopher, and cite his "terrible" hirings etc.
I look at Football, women's basketball(recent hire), women's swimming, guy's soccer, hockey, volleyball, and perhaps track (too soon to tell definitely) as some pretty decent hires. Do I think and agree that Orr needs to go? YES! But to throw the A.D. under the bus and say all he can do is "fundraise" just doesn't seem to be true, IMO. [-X
I look at Football and see a coach that is still unproven. He comes out and wins the MAC this year, then yes it was a good hire. Is BG Football better? Yes. Have we won a MAC Championship under Clausen? No. Did we have opportunities? Yes. Did Clausen have the boys ready to go? No. So if Clausen doesn't win it this year one could argue that even though BG Football is better, we still don't have the coach to take us to that next level.

As far as womens basketball, you can't come close to saying Roos was the right hire. She in her 1st year and ALREADY has a huge scandal under her watch. Not to mention her team losing a few games they had absolutely no business losing. If Miller was still coach, would they of lost tose games? I'm not saying she's a bad coach. Just saying give it a few years before you start crediting the Fundraising Clown with a good hire.

Hockey. Once again, the program is better. But is it going to get to national prominence under Bergeron? WAY to early to tell. They have had some bad losses this year. Everyone is still living on the possible Louis Orr type of run (that he had before his extension) in the Playoffs last year.

Volleyball looks like a good hire, but the volleyball program doesn't generate any income to help pay some of the bills. As far as womens swimming and guys soccer, I can't comment as I know nothing about those programs. I guess my point is Christopher has shown me lots more negative decisions than positive. If his hires end up working out in the future and win the university some championships, then ill probably change my opinion. But so far not 1 hire in a MAJOR university sport has done anything noteworthy while he cuts scholarships and holds onto coaches whom are completely worthless while insisting that "directionally" the program is doing good.
What about baseball? Coach Schmitz seems like a nice enough guy, but they've had losing records the last two years, are 3-9 this year (yes, I know it is early in the season) and haven't done anything of note in the MAC Tournament in roughly a decade. Mr. Christopher could get rid of that coach, bring in a young guy for a lower salary & save some money there. Should he do that? Using your argument, why "waste" money paying a coach in his third decade, when we don't charge admission & have no chance to make that money back?

In no way do I think Coach Schmitz should be let go, I'm just using baseball as an example.
Oh boy....bringing up baseball is like putting it on a tee for Christopher haters.
guest44
Peregrine
Peregrine
Posts: 3378
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2005 3:27 pm

Re: ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! FOR GOD'S SAKE MAKE A CHANGE!

Post by guest44 »

Hooray..... Greg Fundraiser gets a extension. A win for all things mediocre.
User avatar
BleedOrange
Falcon Hoops Lifer
Falcon Hoops Lifer
Posts: 3028
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2004 9:51 pm
Location: Copley, Ohio

Re: ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! FOR GOD'S SAKE MAKE A CHANGE!

Post by BleedOrange »

ZuluWarrior wrote:If someone in the public eye puts their religious beliefs in their professional role they have to accept the fact that in America people can say 'I don't like it'. Our forefathers And mothers left Great Britain to keep religion from being forced upon them. Personally, as an alum of a public university, i would prefer religion stays out of public discourse.

And Orr has been a bad coach in a horrible league for the last five years and for this he should be fired. He's the Matt Millen of college basketball coaches.
This is right on the mark. All of the Jesus talk is inappropriate in a professional, public setting. Furthermore, kids do not need distracting preaching about some christian god that somehow cares about their progress and has some kind of overall "plan" for them (...as opposed to the droves of children dying of worms, viruses, and hunger in third world countries). Kids don't need to be told to wait passively for some god-concept of willingness, mercy, or "mysterious ways". Kids don't need examples of grown men professing to have personal relationships with imaginary individuals. That mind game is good for nobody.

I'll take a coach who will square up to the reality right in front of his face and address that reality directly and proactively. I'll take the same in any person. They can keep the religion and superstition to themselves. It sounds asinine.
"All posts are to be read in the voice of Lewis Black."
HoopsFan
Peregrine
Peregrine
Posts: 1131
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2004 1:40 pm
Location: Quietly living in Central Ohio

Re: ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! FOR GOD'S SAKE MAKE A CHANGE!

Post by HoopsFan »

When Weinert resigned, it was because, outside of personal problems with his wife dying of cancer, it was that the wins were not as fun and the losses were worse than they ever were. Louie's losses (it was God's will) seem to roll off his back.

We need a coach that hates to lose and does something about it. To see promising players sit on the bench while marginal players play is just a symptom of bad coaching. What? Didn't they pray hard enough in practice? I know coaching and PT is not a democracy, but this is just ridiculous. When you don't see the 5 best players on the floor because of some weird rotation, or poor players play because of seniority, while the good players sit on the bench, it's just insane. Then, those "bench" players are expected to be good players the following year since they are upperclassmen?

Don't tell me that our starting center's 3 points per game or our "defensive specialist" (also known as slow white kid) shooting guard who averaged 3 points per game were the best kids on the floor.

As a minimum, if that idiot is allowed to finish out his 7th year, then I want ALL the assistants fired. Of course, I won't care because if that idiot is in the Stroh Center, this idiot won't be. I came so very close to not renewing my season tickets this year and Louie just pushed it over the edge. I'll watch the women play. At least they all have more personality than the stump shrugging his shoulders at the men's games.

HoopsFan
BGWriter
Fledgling
Fledgling
Posts: 394
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 2:53 pm

Re: ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! FOR GOD'S SAKE MAKE A CHANGE!

Post by BGWriter »

Falcon137 wrote:
threestooges wrote:
CrazyFan wrote:
Class of 61 wrote:
CrazyFan wrote:
bg1984 wrote:It just seems so obvious that a change is needed; how could the administration not come to the same conclusion?
Because our athletic administration is headed up by a Fundraising Clueless Clown who has no idea how to run the "athletics" part in the athletic department. He can get s**t built; but he can also cut scholarship after scholarship and let useless, and mean useless coaches like Louis Orr stick around after just a s**t product has been put on the court for so long. So in my book, Christopher has not a clue what he's doing. Him and Louie and the entire men's basketball staff needs to high tail it out of BG as soon as they can. I'm sick of this crap!

I know you guys LOVE to put this all on Christopher, and cite his "terrible" hirings etc.
I look at Football, women's basketball(recent hire), women's swimming, guy's soccer, hockey, volleyball, and perhaps track (too soon to tell definitely) as some pretty decent hires. Do I think and agree that Orr needs to go? YES! But to throw the A.D. under the bus and say all he can do is "fundraise" just doesn't seem to be true, IMO. [-X
I look at Football and see a coach that is still unproven. He comes out and wins the MAC this year, then yes it was a good hire. Is BG Football better? Yes. Have we won a MAC Championship under Clausen? No. Did we have opportunities? Yes. Did Clausen have the boys ready to go? No. So if Clausen doesn't win it this year one could argue that even though BG Football is better, we still don't have the coach to take us to that next level.

As far as womens basketball, you can't come close to saying Roos was the right hire. She in her 1st year and ALREADY has a huge scandal under her watch. Not to mention her team losing a few games they had absolutely no business losing. If Miller was still coach, would they of lost tose games? I'm not saying she's a bad coach. Just saying give it a few years before you start crediting the Fundraising Clown with a good hire.

Hockey. Once again, the program is better. But is it going to get to national prominence under Bergeron? WAY to early to tell. They have had some bad losses this year. Everyone is still living on the possible Louis Orr type of run (that he had before his extension) in the Playoffs last year.

Volleyball looks like a good hire, but the volleyball program doesn't generate any income to help pay some of the bills. As far as womens swimming and guys soccer, I can't comment as I know nothing about those programs. I guess my point is Christopher has shown me lots more negative decisions than positive. If his hires end up working out in the future and win the university some championships, then ill probably change my opinion. But so far not 1 hire in a MAJOR university sport has done anything noteworthy while he cuts scholarships and holds onto coaches whom are completely worthless while insisting that "directionally" the program is doing good.
What about baseball? Coach Schmitz seems like a nice enough guy, but they've had losing records the last two years, are 3-9 this year (yes, I know it is early in the season) and haven't done anything of note in the MAC Tournament in roughly a decade. Mr. Christopher could get rid of that coach, bring in a young guy for a lower salary & save some money there. Should he do that? Using your argument, why "waste" money paying a coach in his third decade, when we don't charge admission & have no chance to make that money back?

In no way do I think Coach Schmitz should be let go, I'm just using baseball as an example.
Oh boy....bringing up baseball is like putting it on a tee for Christopher haters.
Yep. He's done some damage to one of BG's most consistent winning programs with his scholarship cutbacks, so don't cite baseball as one of Christopher's "wins" in this regard.

I happen to agree with the other points about all the other coaches in question. When you hire coaches, you are looking for programs to become consistent winners and win CHAMPIONSHIPS.

Outside of volleyball's outstanding run this year, what coach hired by Christopher has won a MAC title, especially in one of the major sports? The answer is ZERO at this point.

Will they end up being good coaches? I don't know. I think this is the critical year for Clawson; if he can't do it this season, then I don't see him winning a MAC title very soon. He's had two golden chances to get to the MAC title game and hasn't been able to get over that hump yet.

Roos is too new to make a judgment other than the fact that she had a huge scandal in her first year on the job. That's not a good start; but I'm less worried about that than how inconsistent the play of her team was all year. That comes back to coaching.

In hockey, I'm seeing very positive signs that things are headed in the right direction and I realize that may be the hardest of all the sports to turn around, all things considered -- so I'm willing to be patient. Last year's late run was really a positive sign, and there seems to have been a few more baby steps taken this year.

But the REAL PROBLEM CHILD REMAINS MEN'S BASKETBALL.

There is no reason to keep this coach any longer. He should have been let go the evening after that final and embarrassing loss to Miami. In fact, an AD worth his salt would have done so, and would already be working hard at finding a replacement.

Orr has done nothing to warrant staying another season. Nothing. And the longer Christopher waits to make the change, the more time passes that he could be getting word out to the world that there's a quality job opening in NW Ohio.

Come on, Christopher: Let's get things started NOW. Fire Orr and begin righting this sunken ship!
factman
Peregrine
Peregrine
Posts: 4495
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2004 11:53 pm
Location: Bowling Green
Contact:

Re: ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! FOR GOD'S SAKE MAKE A CHANGE!

Post by factman »

threestooges wrote:
CrazyFan wrote:
Class of 61 wrote:
CrazyFan wrote:
bg1984 wrote:It just seems so obvious that a change is needed; how could the administration not come to the same conclusion?
Because our athletic administration is headed up by a Fundraising Clueless Clown who has no idea how to run the "athletics" part in the athletic department. He can get s**t built; but he can also cut scholarship after scholarship and let useless, and mean useless coaches like Louis Orr stick around after just a s**t product has been put on the court for so long. So in my book, Christopher has not a clue what he's doing. Him and Louie and the entire men's basketball staff needs to high tail it out of BG as soon as they can. I'm sick of this crap!

I know you guys LOVE to put this all on Christopher, and cite his "terrible" hirings etc.
I look at Football, women's basketball(recent hire), women's swimming, guy's soccer, hockey, volleyball, and perhaps track (too soon to tell definitely) as some pretty decent hires. Do I think and agree that Orr needs to go? YES! But to throw the A.D. under the bus and say all he can do is "fundraise" just doesn't seem to be true, IMO. [-X
I look at Football and see a coach that is still unproven. He comes out and wins the MAC this year, then yes it was a good hire. Is BG Football better? Yes. Have we won a MAC Championship under Clausen? No. Did we have opportunities? Yes. Did Clausen have the boys ready to go? No. So if Clausen doesn't win it this year one could argue that even though BG Football is better, we still don't have the coach to take us to that next level.

As far as womens basketball, you can't come close to saying Roos was the right hire. She in her 1st year and ALREADY has a huge scandal under her watch. Not to mention her team losing a few games they had absolutely no business losing. If Miller was still coach, would they of lost tose games? I'm not saying she's a bad coach. Just saying give it a few years before you start crediting the Fundraising Clown with a good hire.

Hockey. Once again, the program is better. But is it going to get to national prominence under Bergeron? WAY to early to tell. They have had some bad losses this year. Everyone is still living on the possible Louis Orr type of run (that he had before his extension) in the Playoffs last year.

Volleyball looks like a good hire, but the volleyball program doesn't generate any income to help pay some of the bills. As far as womens swimming and guys soccer, I can't comment as I know nothing about those programs. I guess my point is Christopher has shown me lots more negative decisions than positive. If his hires end up working out in the future and win the university some championships, then ill probably change my opinion. But so far not 1 hire in a MAJOR university sport has done anything noteworthy while he cuts scholarships and holds onto coaches whom are completely worthless while insisting that "directionally" the program is doing good.
What about baseball? Coach Schmitz seems like a nice enough guy, but they've had losing records the last two years, are 3-9 this year (yes, I know it is early in the season) and haven't done anything of note in the MAC Tournament in roughly a decade. Mr. Christopher could get rid of that coach, bring in a young guy for a lower salary & save some money there. Should he do that? Using your argument, why "waste" money paying a coach in his third decade, when we don't charge admission & have no chance to make that money back?

In no way do I think Coach Schmitz should be let go, I'm just using baseball as an example.
The difference is that for the past 3-4 years, baseball has been working with about two thirds the scholarships of the rest of the teams in the league and a budget that is far below other teams in the league. For example, coach Stricland at Kent is making about $300,000 as the head baseball coach and BG pays in the $80-90,000 range. Most of the teams in the MAC have two full time asst coaches, while BG has one. BG has to fundraise for a new set of uniforms to replace ones that are 10 years old. Put Coach Schmitz on equal terms with scholarships and budget and he will compete for a championship EVERY year.
The same can not be said for Coach Orr. BAD example! [-X
threestooges
Peregrine
Peregrine
Posts: 924
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 1:00 pm
Location: Ohio
Contact:

Re: ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! FOR GOD'S SAKE MAKE A CHANGE!

Post by threestooges »

OK fine. I'll assume some of factman's information is correct. I'll never assume ALL of his info about baseball is correct, b/c he is so in bed with that program he can't see straight, but I'm sure our program has fewer resources than, say, Kent State's. But, let's get back to men's basketball. A few things:

> Greg Christopher has signed an extension of at least a few years (the person who told me this has never steered me wrong before, so I have no reason to doubt her)

> With each passing second, minute, hour, it becomes more and more likely that he will not fire Louis Orr. He (Mr. Christopher) seems to be a guy who usually has his mind made up long before the final game of the season. For example, Brandon was let go the very night of a game against the Glass City Rivals; a game BGSU won by four touchdowns.

Even though I don't agree with the criticism of Coach Orr's faith on this board, I certainly won't argue the fact that the results just haven't been there on the court. If Coach Orr returns, I would hope that he is 'encouraged' to make some changes to his staff. If he does not return (and I think he will return), then I will wish him the best, as he is a great person and a class act.
User avatar
Falconfreak90
Rubber City Falcon
Rubber City Falcon
Posts: 18505
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2004 9:28 am
Location: Green, OH
Contact:

Re: ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! FOR GOD'S SAKE MAKE A CHANGE!

Post by Falconfreak90 »

It's sad....this was the first season in a looooog time I didn't go to any men's games. Why? No interest. I usually go to Akron and Kent, at the very least, and a couple home games every year. I simply didn't care all that much this year. I knew we were a bottom half MAC team with no chance of winning a title. We simply need a fresh face leading the program. Obviously this isn't working....losing in the 1st round AGAIN is unacceptable. I honestly am surprised this team won 13 games this yr. I didn't think we'd win more than 10. For the love of Harold Anderson, MAKE A CHANGE NOW.
Michael W.
BGSU-12 TIME MAC CHAMPION
FALCON FOOTBALL ROCKS!
User avatar
Globetrotter
Turbo
Turbo
Posts: 11321
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:17 am

Re: ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! FOR GOD'S SAKE MAKE A CHANGE!

Post by Globetrotter »

If money is the issue, lets take a year off and start again in 2014
Post Reply