Attendance Woes

[Falcon137]

Long post warning...

The past 4 years have sucked a lot of life out of the program. This is going to sound like a bashing Clawson post, I don't want it to, I like him and think he's done a great job turning the program around.

But.....The students, townies, and fringe fans get excited by big wins. What is the biggest win of the Clawson era? Last year @ OU?

Against BCS schools under Clawson, BG has been outscored 253-75. An average score of roughly 42-13. That doesn't include the 49-14 loss to Boise. I really didn't think it was that bad until, I looked it up.

1-3 vs Toledo.

The last really big win was @ #25 Pitt (also last win against a ranked team) in '08. For all his flaws. Brandon always excited people with big wins and at least going toe to toe with BCS schools.

I thought last year's Kent game had a chance to be a signature win for the program. Didn't happen.

Then, I thought San Jose St. had a chance to be a big win. Didn't happen.

Going into the year, I would say the excitement level was the highest it's been since we were going into the 05 season. And I think everything was on track. At the time it seemed like a huge win over a Tulsa team that was the best in CUSA. Go on the road and pound Kent, in front of a big Falcon contingent and had everyone talking about 6-0 going into Mississippi State.

Then, Indiana happened. I think it was a real gut punch for a lot of fans. I know those of us on here think MAC titles are the biggest thing. But, man. It was depressing watching a mid to low level Big10 team just do whatever they wanted to with, probably the best BG team in 7-8 years.

A win this weekend would erase that Indiana game from a lot of people's minds. At the very least we have to go down there and be competitive.

[Flipper]

I agree that people were let down by the IU game...I know I was...but I think by the end of the year, it won't look as bad. The Big 10 is pretty weak this year, I think IU is lower upper/upper middle in that conference and should go bowling.

Historically speaking...our best years attendance (IIRC) ma out in that 24/25 k range. Even in 2003 when we beat a couple of ranked teams in the regular season and hosted Game Day, you had a game like the Kent State game where there were maybe 5,000 people there in the seats.

Things were really set up going into 2004...you had winning seasons in 2001-2003, national rankings in much of 2002 and 2003 including a final ranking in the 20-25 range in 03. We won the east and a bowl game in 2003. We open 2004 at home after giving OU a good game in Norman and we have something like 25,000 people to see us throttle SEMO..a 1AA program. Then we lose to NIU the following week and the air goes out of the balloon, I don't think we drew 20k again that whole year, even though we had the most dynamic QB in the school's history...41/4....I still can't believe that stat line.

It seems like it takes a loooong time to really build interest here and it disappears much, much more quickly....

[Globetrotter]

It seems like it takes a loooong time to really build interest here and it disappears much, much more quickly....

There is an expectation for people outside of the die hards that we are just a blah team and when we go beyond that expectation it's exciting, when it looks like we are meeting that expectation no one cares.

It's like when I open the cabinet under the TV. For my cat it's like I opened a door to a new world of wonder. When it's closed she just walks on by and doesn't care.

[kdog27]

Long post warning...

The past 4 years have sucked a lot of life out of the program. This is going to sound like a bashing Clawson post, I don't want it to, I like him and think he's done a great job turning the program around.

But.....The students, townies, and fringe fans get excited by big wins. What is the biggest win of the Clawson era? Last year @ OU?

Against BCS schools under Clawson, BG has been outscored 253-75. An average score of roughly 42-13. That doesn't include the 49-14 loss to Boise. I really didn't think it was that bad until, I looked it up.

1-3 vs Toledo.

The last really big win was @ #25 Pitt (also last win against a ranked team) in '08. For all his flaws. Brandon always excited people with big wins and at least going toe to toe with BCS schools.

I thought last year's Kent game had a chance to be a signature win for the program. Didn't happen.

Then, I thought San Jose St. had a chance to be a big win. Didn't happen.

Going into the year, I would say the excitement level was the highest it's been since we were going into the 05 season. And I think everything was on track. At the time it seemed like a huge win over a Tulsa team that was the best in CUSA. Go on the road and pound Kent, in front of a big Falcon contingent and had everyone talking about 6-0 going into Mississippi State.

Then, Indiana happened. I think it was a real gut punch for a lot of fans. I know those of us on here think MAC titles are the biggest thing. But, man. It was depressing watching a mid to low level Big10 team just do whatever they wanted to with, probably the best BG team in 7-8 years.

A win this weekend would erase that Indiana game from a lot of people's minds. At the very least we have to go down there and be competitive.

Well said. I doubt I see any BG fans Saturday other than players parents. Guarantee had we beat Indiana there would at least be a decent handful of fans travelling to MSU. My biggest knock on Clawson has been these embarrassments to BCS schools. WVU, VT and Indiana were all miserable after the first quarter.

[zete]

Peregrine & Falcon137, you are so right.
37-0 loss at VT last year was one of the worst.
If we are going to schedule these top tier teams, we have to beat them occasionally, or at least play with them for 4 quarters.

[mscarn]

It does take a while for any success to filter into the bloodstream of the community. There's also something to be said for avoiding the big monentum-killing loss.

Look at the non-conference schedules of the two top teams in the west division and our biggest competitor in the east division:

Ball State: Illinois State, Army, North Texas, Virginia
NIU: Iowa, Eastern Illinois, Idaho, Purdue
Ohio: Louisville, North Texas, Marshall, Austin Peay.

Not exactly murderers row. Exactly one top 25 team and they're in the American Athletic Conference. You can't predict how good some teams will be years in advance but you can look at trends that place teams like Iowa, Virginia and Purdue consistently in the middle of the pack if not lower.

They get their seasons and their fan bases off to positive notes by playing teams they can realistically beat while the bottom of the MAC gets hammered against upper tier Top 25 teams.

[hammb]

I know some here think he's coming off like a whiner, but I honestly couldn't agree more with Globe. His rationale is why I gave up my season tickets last year and I can see the lights of the Doyt from my back yard. If I lived in Columbus I probably wouldn't make it to more than 1 game year, if that.

I like BG football, but really there isn't that much draw to go to the games. I enjoy seeing all the AZZ crew out tailgating, and that is a good time. And I do have one good friend who is a die hard at every game. But most of my group of friends have no interest in going to the games anymore. And when I do get them out there it's to either tailgate & leave or they end up bolting at halftime.

As for me? I still have a rooting interest in BG football but there just isn't much of a draw to me. Like 24 stated, and I've been adamant about in the past...winning those games against BCS schools means far more for me than the MAC does. I won't go quite as far as saying I don't care about the MAC, but I'm real close to that feeling. This year I was actually getting excited again. The destruction of Tulsa energized me. Backing it up with a big win @KSU ramped it up even more. I was actually texting aforementioned die hard friend how I hadn't been this excited for BG football since '04-05 or so. Then we go to IU and don't even look like we belong on the same field. That's not just taking the wind out of the sails, it's like running those sails through a paper shredder while cannons are being fired at the ship and sharks are circling in the water.

To me the main thing I want from BG sports is to prove those idiot fans at OSU wrong. Those that say we don't deserve to be 1A and are a lesser class football team. There are millions of them, and when we get waxed by VaTech and IU we're proving them right. And sure a MAC title would be sweet for the team and coaches, but for my goal of actually looking like a higher level 1A program? Means next to nothing...

As for the other stuff Globe talks about I get that too. Go to an OSU game. Or a Browns game. The tailgating is insane, and because of the events going on people do go out there that aren't even able to get tickets for the game. Like he said, it's an event that draws people to the area of the stadium. I don't know if you can artificially create stuff like that or not, but it would be cool to see them do something like that...if not every week at least for Homecoming or Family Weekend...

There is definitely something lacking in the excitement of the program and the gameday experience. I know several people who did come into BG for homecoming and didn't even consider attending the game as an option. I don't know what really can be done, but it would be cool to see some new ideas brought forth. I can tell ya though the only things that I really care about are big wins against good competition, and top tier opponents coming to the Doyt.

[footballguy51]

It does take a while for any success to filter into the bloodstream of the community. There's also something to be said for avoiding the big monentum-killing loss.

Look at the non-conference schedules of the two top teams in the west division and our biggest competitor in the east division:

Ball State: Illinois State, Army, North Texas, Virginia
NIU: Iowa, Eastern Illinois, Idaho, Purdue
Ohio: Louisville, North Texas, Marshall, Austin Peay.

Not exactly murderers row. Exactly one top 25 team and they're in the American Athletic Conference. You can't predict how good some teams will be years in advance but you can look at trends that place teams like Iowa, Virginia and Purdue consistently in the middle of the pack if not lower.

They get their seasons and their fan bases off to positive notes by playing teams they can realistically beat while the bottom of the MAC gets hammered against upper tier Top 25 teams.

Okay, but our non-conference slate is Tulsa, Indiana, Murray State, and Mississippi State. Murray State is the easy game, Tulsa is a team that, years ago when we scheduled them, could have been comparable to North Texas or Marshall, and Indiana is in the same class as Iowa or Purdue. Basically, I would put our non-conference schedule as comparable to any of those three. We just aren't getting it done like we should, that's all. But...we KILLED Tulsa, and that's awesome.

[jpfalcon09]

Long post warning...

The past 4 years have sucked a lot of life out of the program. This is going to sound like a bashing Clawson post, I don't want it to, I like him and think he's done a great job turning the program around.

But.....The students, townies, and fringe fans get excited by big wins. What is the biggest win of the Clawson era? Last year @ OU?

Against BCS schools under Clawson, BG has been outscored 253-75. An average score of roughly 42-13. That doesn't include the 49-14 loss to Boise. I really didn't think it was that bad until, I looked it up.

1-3 vs Toledo.

The last really big win was @ #25 Pitt (also last win against a ranked team) in '08. For all his flaws. Brandon always excited people with big wins and at least going toe to toe with BCS schools.

I thought last year's Kent game had a chance to be a signature win for the program. Didn't happen.

Then, I thought San Jose St. had a chance to be a big win. Didn't happen.

Going into the year, I would say the excitement level was the highest it's been since we were going into the 05 season. And I think everything was on track. At the time it seemed like a huge win over a Tulsa team that was the best in CUSA. Go on the road and pound Kent, in front of a big Falcon contingent and had everyone talking about 6-0 going into Mississippi State.

Then, Indiana happened. I think it was a real gut punch for a lot of fans. I know those of us on here think MAC titles are the biggest thing. But, man. It was depressing watching a mid to low level Big10 team just do whatever they wanted to with, probably the best BG team in 7-8 years.

A win this weekend would erase that Indiana game from a lot of people's minds. At the very least we have to go down there and be competitive.

To go along with that, Clawson's brand of football isn't exactly very exciting. Run the ball, chew up possession time, very little big play potential. Our most exciting game this year was on the road at Kent State, albeit with an awesome road crowd. People need a reason to go watch mid-major football, and if its not a national ranking, beating a BCS team or having a gimmick offense, people just aren't going to care. I expect we'll get 20+ for Toledo and depending on the Ohio game, 15,000 only because its a Tuesday night.

[footballguy51]

I know some here think he's coming off like a whiner, but I honestly couldn't agree more with Globe. His rationale is why I gave up my season tickets last year and I can see the lights of the Doyt from my back yard. If I lived in Columbus I probably wouldn't make it to more than 1 game year, if that.

I like BG football, but really there isn't that much draw to go to the games. I enjoy seeing all the AZZ crew out tailgating, and that is a good time. And I do have one good friend who is a die hard at every game. But most of my group of friends have no interest in going to the games anymore. And when I do get them out there it's to either tailgate & leave or they end up bolting at halftime.

As for me? I still have a rooting interest in BG football but there just isn't much of a draw to me. Like 24 stated, and I've been adamant about in the past...winning those games against BCS schools means far more for me than the MAC does. I won't go quite as far as saying I don't care about the MAC, but I'm real close to that feeling. This year I was actually getting excited again. The destruction of Tulsa energized me. Backing it up with a big win @KSU ramped it up even more. I was actually texting aforementioned die hard friend how I hadn't been this excited for BG football since '04-05 or so. Then we go to IU and don't even look like we belong on the same field. That's not just taking the wind out of the sails, it's like running those sails through a paper shredder while cannons are being fired at the ship and sharks are circling in the water.

To me the main thing I want from BG sports is to prove those idiot fans at OSU wrong. Those that say we don't deserve to be 1A and are a lesser class football team. There are millions of them, and when we get waxed by VaTech and IU we're proving them right. And sure a MAC title would be sweet for the team and coaches, but for my goal of actually looking like a higher level 1A program? Means next to nothing...

As for the other stuff Globe talks about I get that too. Go to an OSU game. Or a Browns game. The tailgating is insane, and because of the events going on people do go out there that aren't even able to get tickets for the game. Like he said, it's an event that draws people to the area of the stadium. I don't know if you can artificially create stuff like that or not, but it would be cool to see them do something like that...if not every week at least for Homecoming or Family Weekend...

There is definitely something lacking in the excitement of the program and the gameday experience. I know several people who did come into BG for homecoming and didn't even consider attending the game as an option. I don't know what really can be done, but it would be cool to see some new ideas brought forth. I can tell ya though the only things that I really care about are big wins against good competition, and top tier opponents coming to the Doyt.

The one big difference is there ARE tickets available for the BG game. Getting them to the parking lot is one thing, getting them in the gate is another.

OSU fans show up to watch the game on giant TVs because they cannot get into the game. They watch it in giant packs to feel like they are part of the game. These same fans would be in the stadium if they could be. We don't have fans sitting in the parking lot not able to get in the gates.

[Falcon137]

As for me? I still have a rooting interest in BG football but there just isn't much of a draw to me. Like 24 stated, and I've been adamant about in the past...winning those games against BCS schools means far more for me than the MAC does. I won't go quite as far as saying I don't care about the MAC, but I'm real close to that feeling. This year I was actually getting excited again. The destruction of Tulsa energized me. Backing it up with a big win @KSU ramped it up even more. I was actually texting aforementioned die hard friend how I hadn't been this excited for BG football since '04-05 or so. Then we go to IU and don't even look like we belong on the same field. That's not just taking the wind out of the sails, it's like running those sails through a paper shredder while cannons are being fired at the ship and sharks are circling in the water.

Bingo, Hammb.

I have been to every home game (minus NIU 2 years ago) for the past 8 years (4 as a student, 4 as a season ticket holder) and generally make 2 or 3 road trips a year.

I'll be honest, the Indiana game really deflated me.

After the destruction of Kent, I had family with no connections to BG asking about tickets, friends / alums who haven't been to a game in years wanting to go. After IU, it all stopped.

Maybe it was unrealistic for me to think we would win that IU game going in. They have an explosive offense and it was still an away game at a Big10 school. But, like hammb said, we didn't even look like we belonged.

Maybe it was just an awful performance. But after looking at the track record against BCS teams with Clawson, I'm guessing it probably wasn't a fluke game.

I still love seeing the same faces around my seats every game, tailgating with friends and getting to see campus. And I'm sure I'll continue to get season tickets, but it sure would be nice to be rewarded with more than wins over the bottom dwellers of the FBS and wins over FCS schools every now and then. The last 2 years we have only beaten 2 schools that finished with winning records.

I don't expect to go down to Starkville and win. I just want them to prove that IU was a fluke and this team is capable of competing with the big boys of college football. Restore some sort of spark to BG football.

[mscarn]

Okay, but our non-conference slate is Tulsa, Indiana, Murray State, and Mississippi State. Murray State is the easy game, Tulsa is a team that, years ago when we scheduled them, could have been comparable to North Texas or Marshall, and Indiana is in the same class as Iowa or Purdue. Basically, I would put our non-conference schedule as comparable to any of those three. We just aren't getting it done like we should, that's all. But...we KILLED Tulsa, and that's awesome.

I agree. Our schedule is fair and follows the old Karl formula: one favored, one underdog and two either way.

We're almost in a weird double bind attendence-wise. We must be perceived as a good program and win convincingly but not by a margin so great that it deters people from coming because they think it'll be a blowout (something I'm actually not averse to seeing).

Winning every game in an exciting fashion is an impossible standard. We must take a cue from minor league baseball by making it about the game experience and giving already large groups that congregate elsewhere (high school band parents, corporate gatherings, etc.) a reason to congregate at the Doyt.

[hammb]

I don't expect to go down to Starkville and win. I just want them to prove that IU was a fluke and this team is capable of competing with the big boys of college football. Restore some sort of spark to BG football.

Same here.

I want to win some of these games against BCS schools, obviously, but I don't think it's asking too much to at least be competitive with them almost every time. Getting blown out by Alabama or OSU, while it would suck, I can understand...they're in the top echelon of college football. Getting blown out by IU and WVU though? That's just demoralizing to our potential fanbase.

As I said earlier, our casual potential fanbase are likely a bunch of Big10/ND fans that also want to support BG. Their football mind has been conditioned to believe IU is a doormat. You cannot get destroyed by somebody that is consistently the bottom of the Big10 barrel and expect those Big10/casual BG fans to show up for this team, regardless of how badly we beat KSU or UMass.

[Flipper]

Does any of this even matter? We have a base that buys about 15,000 seats. History says the maximum seasonal average interest built on years of winning is somewhere around 23,000 give or take a thousand. How much time, effort and energy do we want to put into the product right now when the real growth potential is somewhat minimal. From my perspective, it would be smarter to let things bounce along as they are until the Doyt gets renovated or replaced ...hopefully we're 5-10 years tops from that happening. Then you can take a look at incorporating different ideas to improve the game day experience into the stadium design and use the "new" factor to build interest. Then you have to hope that the buzz generated in town is something other than "you're raping us with these ticket prices" and "I wanna bring my own Milk Duds in rather than buying yours".

As it sits ...the Doyt is a rather unattractive concrete muffin that got dropped into the middle of a flood plane. It's our muffin and I'll fight for it until the beer runs out...but it is what it is...

[kdog27]

Does any of this even matter? We have a base that buys about 15,000 seats. History says the maximum seasonal average interest built on years of winning is somewhere around 23,000 give or take a thousand. How much time, effort and energy do we want to put into the product right now when the real growth potential is somewhat minimal. From my perspective, it would be smarter to let things bounce along as they are until the Doyt gets renovated or replaced ...hopefully we're 5-10 years tops from that happening. Then you can take a look at incorporating different ideas to improve the game day experience into the stadium design and use the "new" factor to build interest. Then you have to hope that the buzz generated in town is something other than "you're raping us with these ticket prices" and "I wanna bring my own Milk Duds in rather than buying yours".

As it sits ...the Doyt is a rather unattractive concrete muffin that got dropped into the middle of a flood plane. It's our muffin and I'll fight for it until the beer runs out...but it is what it is...

+1