We could beat NIU.....

[Globetrotter]

At some point college football is going to have to bite the bullet and acknowledge that the bowl system and the need to crown a legit champion in one of the two marquee sports are mutually exclusive...you really can't do both. Even the limited playoff they're going to now is going to make the majority of the games feel like the NIT...will anyone really care about the rose Bowl when t isn't hosting a semifinal? Just bite the bullet...go to a real playoff like 24 suggested and let the bowls exist on a smaller scale for nonqualifiers to reward teams and fans and be done with it.

I think Hammb and I have been suggesting a 16 team playoff for years. I have seen tons of articles about it. I don't know why there is so much momentum towards marginalizing half the division 1 teams and none towards the 16 team tournament. Why don't the 40+teams have a stronger voice? Why are they just letting this happen to themselves?

[kdog27]

I don't think the four team playoff will settle much. After this weekend you could probably make an argument for as many as ten teams to fill those 4 slots. I think playoff number will grow past 4 as we see a one loss 5th ranked team left out over the fourth ranked team with one loss. Whether that playoff expansion will ever be the way it should be with all conferences represented remains to be seen. It just makes sense. Every single team starts the season with a chance to play in the tournament. It would also make the regular season so much better in each conference.

[falconawesome19]

I don't think the four team playoff will settle much. After this weekend you could probably make an argument for as many as ten teams to fill those 4 slots. I think playoff number will grow past 4 as we see a one loss 5th ranked team left out over the fourth ranked team with one loss. Whether that playoff expansion will ever be the way it should be with all conferences represented remains to be seen. It just makes sense. Every single team starts the season with a chance to play in the tournament. It would also make the regular season so much better in each conference.

Yeah but arguing 4th and 5th is much less painless than 2nd and 3rd. That's two more spots opened up

[thewebboy]

I don't think the four team playoff will settle much. After this weekend you could probably make an argument for as many as ten teams to fill those 4 slots. I think playoff number will grow past 4 as we see a one loss 5th ranked team left out over the fourth ranked team with one loss. Whether that playoff expansion will ever be the way it should be with all conferences represented remains to be seen. It just makes sense. Every single team starts the season with a chance to play in the tournament. It would also make the regular season so much better in each conference.

Another crazy thing a friend pointed out about this 4 team playoff...

There's Bama sitting at #4, not having to play a conference title game. Auburn or Mizzou will lose. Bama get in the top 4 without winning their conference.

A conference title should be required, if you are only giving 4 teams a shot.

[bgsufalcon24]

I don't think the four team playoff will settle much. After this weekend you could probably make an argument for as many as ten teams to fill those 4 slots. I think playoff number will grow past 4 as we see a one loss 5th ranked team left out over the fourth ranked team with one loss. Whether that playoff expansion will ever be the way it should be with all conferences represented remains to be seen. It just makes sense. Every single team starts the season with a chance to play in the tournament. It would also make the regular season so much better in each conference.

Another crazy thing a friend pointed out about this 4 team playoff...

There's Bama sitting at #4, not having to play a conference title game. Auburn or Mizzou will lose. Bama get in the top 4 without winning their conference.

A conference title should be required, if you are only giving 4 teams a shot.

Imagine the world in which Michigan State beats Ohio State and Florida State loses to Duke.

Alabama then plays for the national championship. Crazy that this could happen when they didn't even win their own division of their own conference!

Oh wait...that did happen just 2 years ago, when they beat Louisiana State.

[changers]

If the argument is NIU has dominated the MAC and played a good OOC schedule (or relatively challenging at the time it was scheduled) then you're correct. If the argument is that NIU is more deserving then Fresno then you're correct. Unfortunately, the question before the house is whether NIU is an exceptional team that deserves a shot to sniff the rarified air of the highest levels of college football.

And my answer is that the first two criteria qualify Northern Illinois, or a similarly situated MAC/Mountain West/Conference USA/Sun Belt school, for the third criterion.

A Top 15 team that wins all its games? For me, that's plenty good enough to qualify for one of the nation's ten most coveted bowl berths. Am I supposed to feel sorry for Missouri, South Carolina or some other also-ran that gets left out because Northern Illinois was given a chance?

I do not. Northern Illinois did everything it could do this year. My answer to Missouri or South Carolina would be: Win your damn conference.

NIU did all they could do this year. In previous years, their leadership made a conscious decision to avoid the marquee teams in college football in favor of the mushy middle of the Big 10, arguably the worst conference in major college football. Like Ohio State has proved, all that matters is the record and they wisely put themselves in the best possible position to succeed by avoiding a game they'd be a huge underdog in. Why schedule LSU when you don't have to? That's the lesson of NIU.

Gotta correct you multiple times here. First, the Big 10 is not the worst conference in football, not even the worst AQ conference, despite what many of us MAC fans like to think. Second, NIU has not CHOSEN to avoid elite teams even though you imply this in multiple posts. Based on your comments, I'm going to assume you didn't know that the games against Iowa (including last year and this year) were scheduled the off-season following Iowa's BCS Orange Bowl win and top-10 finish. The series against Kansas from the two previous years was agreed two one year after Kansas' BCS win. Unfortunately, these teams have taken a nosedive since the ink dried on the contracts. That's not NIU's fault. Next year, NIU will play Northwestern and Arkansas. Now, those games don't look so good, but most people will conveniently forget that the NU game was scheduled when Northwestern was a top-20 ranked team. The game against Arkansas was scheduled not one year after they lost to OSU in a BCS bowl. Again, NIU should not be faulted because these teams couldn't keep their rankings. Maybe you should do a little research before spewing false statements.

[NIU007]

If the argument is NIU has dominated the MAC and played a good OOC schedule (or relatively challenging at the time it was scheduled) then you're correct. If the argument is that NIU is more deserving then Fresno then you're correct. Unfortunately, the question before the house is whether NIU is an exceptional team that deserves a shot to sniff the rarified air of the highest levels of college football.

And my answer is that the first two criteria qualify Northern Illinois, or a similarly situated MAC/Mountain West/Conference USA/Sun Belt school, for the third criterion.

A Top 15 team that wins all its games? For me, that's plenty good enough to qualify for one of the nation's ten most coveted bowl berths. Am I supposed to feel sorry for Missouri, South Carolina or some other also-ran that gets left out because Northern Illinois was given a chance?

I do not. Northern Illinois did everything it could do this year. My answer to Missouri or South Carolina would be: Win your damn conference.

NIU did all they could do this year. In previous years, their leadership made a conscious decision to avoid the marquee teams in college football in favor of the mushy middle of the Big 10, arguably the worst conference in major college football. Like Ohio State has proved, all that matters is the record and they wisely put themselves in the best possible position to succeed by avoiding a game they'd be a huge underdog in. Why schedule LSU when you don't have to? That's the lesson of NIU.

Gotta correct you multiple times here. First, the Big 10 is not the worst conference in football, not even the worst AQ conference, despite what many of us MAC fans like to think. Second, NIU has not CHOSEN to avoid elite teams even though you imply this in multiple posts. Based on your comments, I'm going to assume you didn't know that the games against Iowa (including last year and this year) were scheduled the off-season following Iowa's BCS Orange Bowl win and top-10 finish. The series against Kansas from the two previous years was agreed two one year after Kansas' BCS win. Unfortunately, these teams have taken a nosedive since the ink dried on the contracts. That's not NIU's fault. Next year, NIU will play Northwestern and Arkansas. Now, those games don't look so good, but most people will conveniently forget that the NU game was scheduled when Northwestern was a top-20 ranked team. The game against Arkansas was scheduled not one year after they lost to OSU in a BCS bowl. Again, NIU should not be faulted because these teams couldn't keep their rankings. Maybe you should do a little research before spewing false statements.

Also, NIU played Michigan in 2005, O$U in 2006, and Wisconsin in 2009 and 2011 (with Russell Wilson). We have O$U scheduled for 2015. That's in addition to other Big Whatever teams.

Now, our home schedule, that's a different story.

[mscarn]

Gotta correct you multiple times here. First, the Big 10 is not the worst conference in football, not even the worst AQ conference, despite what many of us MAC fans like to think. Second, NIU has not CHOSEN to avoid elite teams even though you imply this in multiple posts. Based on your comments, I'm going to assume you didn't know that the games against Iowa (including last year and this year) were scheduled the off-season following Iowa's BCS Orange Bowl win and top-10 finish. The series against Kansas from the two previous years was agreed two one year after Kansas' BCS win. Unfortunately, these teams have taken a nosedive since the ink dried on the contracts. That's not NIU's fault. Next year, NIU will play Northwestern and Arkansas. Now, those games don't look so good, but most people will conveniently forget that the NU game was scheduled when Northwestern was a top-20 ranked team. The game against Arkansas was scheduled not one year after they lost to OSU in a BCS bowl. Again, NIU should not be faulted because these teams couldn't keep their rankings.

Why rely on these middle of the road non-traditional powers to "keep their rankings" after they've risen up for the first time in decades instead of scheduling teams that are virtually assured of being great every year?

This debate is NIU vs. NIU. You can't be called great while never willfully choosing to play any great teams and have Lynch get a 18 passer rating when you do. The conference is relying on teams like NIU and Ball State to be more aggressive in their scheduling and get some eye-catching wins. As an NIU fan wouldn't this be desirable for your program?

[mscarn]

If the argument is NIU has dominated the MAC and played a good OOC schedule (or relatively challenging at the time it was scheduled) then you're correct. If the argument is that NIU is more deserving then Fresno then you're correct. Unfortunately, the question before the house is whether NIU is an exceptional team that deserves a shot to sniff the rarified air of the highest levels of college football.

And my answer is that the first two criteria qualify Northern Illinois, or a similarly situated MAC/Mountain West/Conference USA/Sun Belt school, for the third criterion.

A Top 15 team that wins all its games? For me, that's plenty good enough to qualify for one of the nation's ten most coveted bowl berths. Am I supposed to feel sorry for Missouri, South Carolina or some other also-ran that gets left out because Northern Illinois was given a chance?

I do not. Northern Illinois did everything it could do this year. My answer to Missouri or South Carolina would be: Win your damn conference.

NIU did all they could do this year. In previous years, their leadership made a conscious decision to avoid the marquee teams in college football in favor of the mushy middle of the Big 10, arguably the worst conference in major college football. Like Ohio State has proved, all that matters is the record and they wisely put themselves in the best possible position to succeed by avoiding a game they'd be a huge underdog in. Why schedule LSU when you don't have to? That's the lesson of NIU.

Gotta correct you multiple times here. First, the Big 10 is not the worst conference in football, not even the worst AQ conference, despite what many of us MAC fans like to think. Second, NIU has not CHOSEN to avoid elite teams even though you imply this in multiple posts. Based on your comments, I'm going to assume you didn't know that the games against Iowa (including last year and this year) were scheduled the off-season following Iowa's BCS Orange Bowl win and top-10 finish. The series against Kansas from the two previous years was agreed two one year after Kansas' BCS win. Unfortunately, these teams have taken a nosedive since the ink dried on the contracts. That's not NIU's fault. Next year, NIU will play Northwestern and Arkansas. Now, those games don't look so good, but most people will conveniently forget that the NU game was scheduled when Northwestern was a top-20 ranked team. The game against Arkansas was scheduled not one year after they lost to OSU in a BCS bowl. Again, NIU should not be faulted because these teams couldn't keep their rankings. Maybe you should do a little research before spewing false statements.

Also, NIU played Michigan in 2005, O$U in 2006, and Wisconsin in 2009 and 2011 (with Russell Wilson). We have O$U scheduled for 2015. That's in addition to other Big Whatever teams.

Now, our home schedule, that's a different story.

It's great that you scheduled OSU...that's what I was talking about. Good luck. Too bad the game couldn't have been scheduled this year or they'd be 11-1 heading into Michigan State.

[Schadenfreude]

Why rely on these middle of the road non-traditional powers to "keep their rankings" after they've risen up for the first time in decades instead of scheduling teams that are virtually assured of being great every year?

Among other reasons: They won't give you a return game.

I like the fact that Bowling Green seems to be primarily sticking to schools like Indiana, Maryland, and Tulsa-- which is to say, schools that will give us a return game.

I think it's okay for the Falcons to take a shot at Ohio State or Michigan now and again. They are in the neighborhood; let's see how we stack up.

But I don't see the need to put ourselves through that every year, given that they won't give us a return game. And I see even less reason to schedule a program like Louisiana State or Alabama, since they aren't even neighbors.

This debate is NIU vs. NIU. You can't be called great while never willfully choosing to play any great teams and have Lynch get a 18 passer rating when you do.

I think you are the one who is stuck on this word "great." I'm not saying Northern Illinois is a great team. But they are very nearly so, and they deserve a shot at BCS bowl so that we can all see for sure.

At the end of the day, Northern Illinois is 12-0, a record that includes a pretty good win over Iowa because they were more ambitious scheduling nonconference games than many (if not most) top-ranked schools. The BCS currently ranks the Huskies 14th best in the land. If they beat us and win the MAC, I believe they deserve a chance to play in the Fiesta Bowl. Let's see how they do against Oklahoma State or whoever.

Let me put it another way: Given the combination of the Huskies' (hypothetical) conference championship, their gaudy record, and their top 15 ranking, they deserve a certain suspension of doubt. But this is only the same suspension of doubt that the BCS gives other conference champions, such as the Big 12 and American Athletic champions.

You are really stuck on scheduling, but I think you are holding the Huskies to a higher standard than you hold other schools. Look at their nonconference schedule. Compare it to Ohio State or Oklahoma State.

Also, consider Michigan State. If Michigan State wins Saturday, no one will bat an eye when they play in the Rose Bowl. Northern Illinois is clearly about as good as the Spartans. To not invite NIU to the Fiesta Bowl -- especially given their undefeated record and their (hypothetical) conference championship -- is to hold them to a higher standard than Michigan State, seems to me.

Hopefully the Falcons will render all of this moot on Friday. I think the Falcons can. But they are going to have to play out of their minds. NIU is by far the best team BG will have faced all year.

[jpfalcon09]

Plain and simple, NIU deserves to be where they're at. They have an absolutely dominant player with Lynch who if he was playing in the SEC would be the darling of college football. They've won the games this year they have needed to win, some have been close but over the course of the season you're not always going to be on top of your game. I saw them in person a few weeks ago against Toledo and they're the real deal. They have a great coaching staff that makes adjustments and figures out the weaknesses of their opponents. Their defense I feel is underrated although they've had a few shootout games this year, especially early on. If this was next year, they'd still be in line for the G5 access bowl spot so I fail to really see how you can discount what they've done this year when all they've done is win games and beat two Big Ten programs in their own backyard.

[changers]

Gotta correct you multiple times here. First, the Big 10 is not the worst conference in football, not even the worst AQ conference, despite what many of us MAC fans like to think. Second, NIU has not CHOSEN to avoid elite teams even though you imply this in multiple posts. Based on your comments, I'm going to assume you didn't know that the games against Iowa (including last year and this year) were scheduled the off-season following Iowa's BCS Orange Bowl win and top-10 finish. The series against Kansas from the two previous years was agreed two one year after Kansas' BCS win. Unfortunately, these teams have taken a nosedive since the ink dried on the contracts. That's not NIU's fault. Next year, NIU will play Northwestern and Arkansas. Now, those games don't look so good, but most people will conveniently forget that the NU game was scheduled when Northwestern was a top-20 ranked team. The game against Arkansas was scheduled not one year after they lost to OSU in a BCS bowl. Again, NIU should not be faulted because these teams couldn't keep their rankings.

Why rely on these middle of the road non-traditional powers to "keep their rankings" after they've risen up for the first time in decades instead of scheduling teams that are virtually assured of being great every year?

This debate is NIU vs. NIU. You can't be called great while never willfully choosing to play any great teams and have Lynch get a 18 passer rating when you do. The conference is relying on teams like NIU and Ball State to be more aggressive in their scheduling and get some eye-catching wins. As an NIU fan wouldn't this be desirable for your program?

Of course this would be desirable but scheduling is a 2-way street. NIU, or any team for that matter, can't just call up Ohio St and say, "We demand a game on this date." Some teams just don't want to play NIU.

What would be your definition of a "great" team? Top-5? Top-10? Depending on your definition, teams that are "assured of being great every year" are very few and only so many games to go around. Teams go in cycles. Just because Alabama and Ohio St are great this year does not mean they will be in 2015 or 2020. Heck just 5 years ago, Baylor was considered a joke in the Big 12. Maybe Minnesota and Colorado are great teams in a few years. A majority of non-con schedules are done at least a couple years in advance and no one can predict what any team will look like.

As an NIU fan, I have a couple issues with their scheduling I would like to see resolved, but the quality of AQ opponents from year to year (overall, not one single year) is not one of those. If anything, I would like to see NIU, and other FBS teams, stop scheduling FCS teams.....or at the least start only scheduling them every other year or so.

[hammb]

As an NIU fan, I have a couple issues with their scheduling I would like to see resolved, but the quality of AQ opponents from year to year (overall, not one single year) is not one of those. If anything, I would like to see NIU, and other FBS teams, stop scheduling FCS teams.....or at the least start only scheduling them every other year or so.

I don't think any FBS team should ever be playing an FCS team either.

There is nothing I hate more than those games. I think it's disgusting on the MAC level and even more so when the members of the SEC and Big 10 are doing it.

[FalconRA]

I know that these discussions often go in multiple directions, so that is fine but can we remember what the point of this thread was about. I beleive that NIU is a great team by MAC standards and by other standards as well. That being said, I personally beleive that as JPFalcon has said if we can stop the run effectively during both halves of the game and make some key stops in the air that we do have a chance to beat them. At the end of the day NIU is a great team but all great teams are beatable. Debating a teams greatness is fun but takes away from the larger issue of us all hoping for a Falcon victory on Friday.

[mscarn]

I think you are the one who is stuck on this word "great." I'm not saying Northern Illinois is a great team. But they are very nearly so, and they deserve a shot at BCS bowl so that we can all see for sure.

At the end of the day, Northern Illinois is 12-0, a record that includes a pretty good win over Iowa because they were more ambitious scheduling nonconference games than many (if not most) top-ranked schools. The BCS currently ranks the Huskies 14th best in the land. If they beat us and win the MAC, I believe they deserve a chance to play in the Fiesta Bowl. Let's see how they do against Oklahoma State or whoever.

Let me put it another way: Given the combination of the Huskies' (hypothetical) conference championship, their gaudy record, and their top 15 ranking, they deserve a certain suspension of doubt. But this is only the same suspension of doubt that the BCS gives other conference champions, such as the Big 12 and American Athletic champions.

You are really stuck on scheduling, but I think you are holding the Huskies to a higher standard than you hold other schools. Look at their nonconference schedule. Compare it to Ohio State or Oklahoma State.

Also, consider Michigan State. If Michigan State wins Saturday, no one will bat an eye when they play in the Rose Bowl. Northern Illinois is clearly about as good as the Spartans. To not invite NIU to the Fiesta Bowl -- especially given their undefeated record and their (hypothetical) conference championship -- is to hold them to a higher standard than Michigan State, seems to me.

Hopefully the Falcons will render all of this moot on Friday. I think the Falcons can. But they are going to have to play out of their minds. NIU is by far the best team BG will have faced all year.

I understand what you're saying and you make a strong case. What people are forgetting is that this very same question (are they BCS caliber?) was discussed and analyzed last year. The Florida State game was played and the results were what they were. Because of that, the onus is on NIU (or any other MAC team) to minimize the doubt and quiet the Herbstreits of the world by making an indisputable case that they belong. The history necessitates a higher standard.

It's also a bit of a chicken-or-egg case. You (and most others) value the standing of NIU in the rankings and polls as proof of their worthiness. I contend that they've attained those very positions because of a non-conference schedule that is demonstrably weaker than teams in their very own conference (see next post).