We could beat NIU.....

[Globetrotter]

I think you are the one who is stuck on this word "great." I'm not saying Northern Illinois is a great team. But they are very nearly so, and they deserve a shot at BCS bowl so that we can all see for sure.

At the end of the day, Northern Illinois is 12-0, a record that includes a pretty good win over Iowa because they were more ambitious scheduling nonconference games than many (if not most) top-ranked schools. The BCS currently ranks the Huskies 14th best in the land. If they beat us and win the MAC, I believe they deserve a chance to play in the Fiesta Bowl. Let's see how they do against Oklahoma State or whoever.

Let me put it another way: Given the combination of the Huskies' (hypothetical) conference championship, their gaudy record, and their top 15 ranking, they deserve a certain suspension of doubt. But this is only the same suspension of doubt that the BCS gives other conference champions, such as the Big 12 and American Athletic champions.

You are really stuck on scheduling, but I think you are holding the Huskies to a higher standard than you hold other schools. Look at their nonconference schedule. Compare it to Ohio State or Oklahoma State.

Also, consider Michigan State. If Michigan State wins Saturday, no one will bat an eye when they play in the Rose Bowl. Northern Illinois is clearly about as good as the Spartans. To not invite NIU to the Fiesta Bowl -- especially given their undefeated record and their (hypothetical) conference championship -- is to hold them to a higher standard than Michigan State, seems to me.

Hopefully the Falcons will render all of this moot on Friday. I think the Falcons can. But they are going to have to play out of their minds. NIU is by far the best team BG will have faced all year.

I understand what you're saying and you make a strong case. What people are forgetting is that this very same question (are they BCS caliber?) was discussed and analyzed last year. The Florida State game was played and the results were what they were. Because of that, the onus is on NIU (or any other MAC team) to minimize the doubt and quiet the Herbstreits of the world by making an indisputable case that they belong. The history necessitates a higher standard.

It's also a bit of a chicken-or-egg case. You (and most others) value the standing of NIU in the rankings and polls as proof of their worthiness. I contend that they've attained those very positions because of a non-conference schedule that is demonstrably weaker than teams in their very own conference (see next post).

With all due respect this argument makes no sense. ND, and Kansas State got destroyed last year and no one is saying the onus is on them to show they belong? Clemson and LSU the year before that. Va tech and Uconn the year before that.

[mscarn]

Gotta correct you multiple times here. First, the Big 10 is not the worst conference in football, not even the worst AQ conference, despite what many of us MAC fans like to think. Second, NIU has not CHOSEN to avoid elite teams even though you imply this in multiple posts. Based on your comments, I'm going to assume you didn't know that the games against Iowa (including last year and this year) were scheduled the off-season following Iowa's BCS Orange Bowl win and top-10 finish. The series against Kansas from the two previous years was agreed two one year after Kansas' BCS win. Unfortunately, these teams have taken a nosedive since the ink dried on the contracts. That's not NIU's fault. Next year, NIU will play Northwestern and Arkansas. Now, those games don't look so good, but most people will conveniently forget that the NU game was scheduled when Northwestern was a top-20 ranked team. The game against Arkansas was scheduled not one year after they lost to OSU in a BCS bowl. Again, NIU should not be faulted because these teams couldn't keep their rankings.

Why rely on these middle of the road non-traditional powers to "keep their rankings" after they've risen up for the first time in decades instead of scheduling teams that are virtually assured of being great every year?

This debate is NIU vs. NIU. You can't be called great while never willfully choosing to play any great teams and have Lynch get a 18 passer rating when you do. The conference is relying on teams like NIU and Ball State to be more aggressive in their scheduling and get some eye-catching wins. As an NIU fan wouldn't this be desirable for your program?

Of course this would be desirable but scheduling is a 2-way street. NIU, or any team for that matter, can't just call up Ohio St and say, "We demand a game on this date." Some teams just don't want to play NIU.

What would be your definition of a "great" team? Top-5? Top-10? Depending on your definition, teams that are "assured of being great every year" are very few and only so many games to go around. Teams go in cycles. Just because Alabama and Ohio St are great this year does not mean they will be in 2015 or 2020. Heck just 5 years ago, Baylor was considered a joke in the Big 12. Maybe Minnesota and Colorado are great teams in a few years. A majority of non-con schedules are done at least a couple years in advance and no one can predict what any team will look like.

As an NIU fan, I have a couple issues with their scheduling I would like to see resolved, but the quality of AQ opponents from year to year (overall, not one single year) is not one of those. If anything, I would like to see NIU, and other FBS teams, stop scheduling FCS teams.....or at the least start only scheduling them every other year or so.

The research is in. Over the past 10 years, 25 FBS automatic qualifier teams have accumulated more wins than Iowa, including longstanding powers like Alabama, Auburn, Georgia, Oklahoma, Florida State, Oregon and USC. Of the 25, 10 have faced MAC teams within the past two years. (Needless to say, the numbers for both are far higher for Purdue and Kansas). High level games with high level programs were able to be scheduled and played in spite of scheduling complications, logistics, home and home return deals or fear of losing (and is Oklahoma honestly scared of playing NIU or any MAC team?) The 10 year parameter was used per your post even though you indicated the Iowa and Kansas deals were done far more recently.

Again, I actually think this is a smart strategy because history has proven that rising in the polls can be achieved through record and record alone regardless of schedule strength. Where you might find disagreement is from someone like Steinbrecher who'd probably prefer to see the best teams in the league play the most challenging non-conference schedules.

I wish NIU luck in their ultimate bowl destination.

[mscarn]

With all due respect this argument makes no sense. ND, and Kansas State got destroyed last year and no one is saying the onus is on them to show they belong? Clemson and LSU the year before that. Va tech and Uconn the year before that.

They got destroyed by other BCS teams. When a MAC team does the destroying (which I want) it will mean something.

[mscarn]

One point of further clarification. You can't predict how good teams will be 2, 5 or 10 years in advance. However, it is reasonable to predict that USC will be better than Washington State or Alabama will be better than Kentucky if a guess had to be made.

[Flipper]

The rules say they belong...so they belong. I hope that we don't see any BG fans saying they were overrated if we play up to our potential and beat them. When we trucked a ranked Marshall team at home back in 98 or so people were chanting "overrated" at Marshall and their hlljack fans...I never understood the point in that. Why downplay your own success? There are enough people in the world ready and willing to do that.

[Globetrotter]

With all due respect this argument makes no sense. ND, and Kansas State got destroyed last year and no one is saying the onus is on them to show they belong? Clemson and LSU the year before that. Va tech and Uconn the year before that.

They got destroyed by other BCS teams. When a MAC team does the destroying (which I want) it will mean something.

Huh? So if a BCS team beats another BCS team badly the team that losses shows they belong.
But if a BCS team beats a MAC team badly the team that losses then shows they don't belong?

What in the wide world of sports?

[NIU007]

One point of further clarification. You can't predict how good teams will be 2, 5 or 10 years in advance. However, it is reasonable to predict that USC will be better than Washington State or Alabama will be better than Kentucky if a guess had to be made.

Iowa had just been to the Orange Bowl when we scheduled them.

Anyway, if teams think we have a weak schedule then they can play us at home.

[mscarn]

With all due respect this argument makes no sense. ND, and Kansas State got destroyed last year and no one is saying the onus is on them to show they belong? Clemson and LSU the year before that. Va tech and Uconn the year before that.

They got destroyed by other BCS teams. When a MAC team does the destroying (which I want) it will mean something.

Huh? So if a BCS team beats another BCS team badly the team that losses shows they belong.
But if a BCS team beats a MAC team badly the team that losses then shows they don't belong?

What in the wide world of sports?

Lets try this again. BCS league team beating BCS league team proves or disproves nothing in relation to the leagues because it happens every year. Nobody is going to question whether Michigan State belongs in the Rose Bowl if they beat Ohio State or if a PAC-12 team does if they win their league championship game. The resumes are scrutinized more thoroughly when it comes to the worthiness of inclusion in the national championship game (i.e. Big 10 vs. SEC) but that's a different question.

When a MAC team gets an opportunity they need to capitalize on it. The FSU game last year continues to shape the perceptions of voters. Respect needs to be earned.

[mscarn]

Anyway, if teams think we have a weak schedule then they can play us at home.

On this we agree. The new rules about banning FCS teams might force their hand in this respect and benefit the MAC.

[NIU007]

With all due respect this argument makes no sense. ND, and Kansas State got destroyed last year and no one is saying the onus is on them to show they belong? Clemson and LSU the year before that. Va tech and Uconn the year before that.

They got destroyed by other BCS teams. When a MAC team does the destroying (which I want) it will mean something.

Huh? So if a BCS team beats another BCS team badly the team that losses shows they belong.
But if a BCS team beats a MAC team badly the team that losses then shows they don't belong?

What in the wide world of sports?

Lets try this again. BCS league team beating BCS league team proves or disproves nothing in relation to the leagues because it happens every year. Nobody is going to question whether Michigan State belongs in the Rose Bowl if they beat Ohio State or if a PAC-12 team does if they win their league championship game. The resumes are scrutinized more thoroughly when it comes to the worthiness of inclusion in the national championship game (i.e. Big 10 vs. SEC) but that's a different question.

When a MAC team gets an opportunity they need to capitalize on it. The FSU game last year continues to shape the perceptions of voters. Respect needs to be earned.

Obviously it isn't shaping their perceptions enough to not rank us highly. They don't put us as high as the computers, but still pretty high. Maybe some people did watch the game.

[Schadenfreude]

I understand what you're saying and you make a strong case. What people are forgetting is that this very same question (are they BCS caliber?) was discussed and analyzed last year. The Florida State game was played and the results were what they were. Because of that, the onus is on NIU (or any other MAC team) to minimize the doubt and quiet the Herbstreits of the world by making an indisputable case that they belong. The history necessitates a higher standard.

Holding past seasons against a team seems unfair -- like punishing the son for the sins of the father. I don't like it. This is a important bias against the MAC and similar conferences.

But, to the extent you want to quiet Herbstreit, we have other evidence to work with: Utah in 2004, Boise State in 2006, Hawaii in 2007, Utah in 2008, Texas Christian and Boise State in 2009, and Texas Christian in 2010.

The sum of the evidence is that exceptional non AQ schools can win these bowl games. Northern Illinois' Orange Bowl performance last year needs to be considered in that larger context.

[falconawesome19]

Just watching all those teams listed above with the exception of Hawaii, they were legit great football teams. NIU just doesn't seem like a great mid major, just a really good one. No way does BG have a prayer against that Rose Bowl winning TCU squad

[BGSU33]

Sorry but you will not beat NIU....

We won't, huh.....