Faculty Opinion on Bowl Game

[Flipper]

The "academics" aren't going to sweat the bowl game right now...they have bigger fish to fry...

http://www.sent-trib.com/front-page/bgs ... e-millions

Just about every class I took for the first two years I was at BG could have been taught online. They talked..I listened and if I retained and regurgitated enough, I got an A. My physical presence in the same room with the instructor and my classmates added nothing to the process.

[Flipper]

I take that back...winter qtr 1980 I took speech. Had I not been in the lecture hall for I wouldn't have got to see Suzy Faw in a sweater once a week.
Still not sure it was worth it....

[BGWriter]

From all the feedback in that story, it sure sounds like the faculty is working hard and cooperating to make BG a more efficient and more viable place for students to learn -- and setting it up to be stronger and adaptive for the future.

[Globetrotter]

Would somebody tell this guy there is a payout for reaching the bowl game....

There is a payout, but it is very unusual to get the whole payout. As we have talked about in past years, the cost of any unsold tickets come from that payout. I will be surprised is we break even from a money perspective on this game and it doesn't involve major travel for the team.

Last year's bowl did not lose money. Christopher was told not to lose money and he came out and said we didn't lose money. BG may have spent all 1 million dollars of the bowl payout last year. But, they didn't lose money on that deal. Now, San Jose State, probably did. BG is going to sell close to their allotment, granted they will still lose money because of the discounted tickets. Travel is going to be next to nothing, probably 10 buses and then 1 or 2 nights of hotel rooms for the team. That doesn't cost $750,000, which is what the Little Caesar's Bowl pays. Detroit is literally, the least expensive bowl trip BG could make. Also, some of those meals will be paid for by boosters in the form of donations to the program, trust me.

Oh yeah and Wake is handing BG a check for $200 grand for Clawson. So in the span of a few weeks BGSU gets, 950K, a MAC title, 2 games on ESPN with the university's logo broadcast into millions of homes. Countless more hours of their name mentioned on EVERY sports radio station in the country after beating NIU and being in the bowl game. Having highlights from the NIU game shown on ESPN, FoxSports, and CBS Sports, for the past week. And probably an influx of donations, not only from the high end boosters but a little more from the smaller boosters after having a championship season.

I'm done with this topic.

Are you certain we won't lose money. I agree that in terms of a budget this bowl is the best case scenario. I also agree with the marketing that this generates etc. But I thought I read prior that almost everybody loses money.

[Globetrotter]

The "academics" aren't going to sweat the bowl game right now...they have bigger fish to fry...

http://www.sent-trib.com/front-page/bgs ... e-millions

Just about every class I took for the first two years I was at BG could have been taught online. They talked..I listened and if I retained and regurgitated enough, I got an A. My physical presence in the same room with the instructor and my classmates added nothing to the process.

Gen ED classes are what make Universities like BG so great to go to. You get your ideas challenged from a wide variety of lenses. Cutting those by 2/3rds is a horrible idea.

Also online classes are also a pretty bad idea, although I think a certain amount can be done that way. Companies are looking for people who are good with both communitcating with others and teamwork. That's learned in person.

I would assume the University already cancels classes that don't get past a certain enrollment.

I think there are good things that come from applying a Business model to Higher ED and making it more efficient but more often there are Bad things. The bad things are as "DR J said David Jackson, the president of the BGSU Faculty Association, said he found those recommendations "insulting." Consultants who do not teach courses shouldn't be making recommendations about what courses are offered and how many students are in those courses, he said.
He also questioned the idea of offering more online courses without taking into consideration the quality of those programs."

You often can't quantify the on campus Experience.

[jpfalcon09]

The "academics" aren't going to sweat the bowl game right now...they have bigger fish to fry...

http://www.sent-trib.com/front-page/bgs ... e-millions

Just about every class I took for the first two years I was at BG could have been taught online. They talked..I listened and if I retained and regurgitated enough, I got an A. My physical presence in the same room with the instructor and my classmates added nothing to the process.

Gen ED classes are what make Universities like BG so great to go to. You get your ideas challenged from a wide variety of lenses. Cutting those by 2/3rds is a horrible idea.

Also online classes are also a pretty bad idea, although I think a certain amount can be done that way. Companies are looking for people who are good with both communitcating with others and teamwork. That's learned in person.

I would assume the University already cancels classes that don't get past a certain enrollment.

I think there are good things that come from applying a Business model to Higher ED and making it more efficient but more often there are Bad things. The bad things are as "DR J said David Jackson, the president of the BGSU Faculty Association, said he found those recommendations "insulting." Consultants who do not teach courses shouldn't be making recommendations about what courses are offered and how many students are in those courses, he said.
He also questioned the idea of offering more online courses without taking into consideration the quality of those programs."

You often can't quantify the on campus Experience.

The bigger issue for the university will be identifying and removing classes that have overlapping themes/curriculum. I know in my time at BG, even five years ago, I took several classes where the same information was taught, just in a different way. IMO, I don't see how this is beneficial to the student who has to be examined or write papers over material they've already learned about. I think the answer lies somewhere between what Accenture recommends and the current model.

[Flipper]

Professor Jackson is a strong advocate of "shared governance" when it applies to the faculty having a say over the conduct of the administration...when those roles are reversed he seems to be much more territorial. The notion that instructors should be the sole arbiter of what is taught and by whom is ludicrous.... Without seeing the specifics of the reductions...I don't know if consolidating gen ed courses to that extent is a good or bad idea...I tend to think people overvalue them, particularly the classes taught in large lecture formats.

[FalconRA]

The other thing that everyone needs to keep in mind is that when you hire a firm like BG did, you will not agree with all of their findings. So even though the firm says 125 it is likely that the final resting numbers on general education courses will stay higher than that. I value a liberal arts style curriculum so I would want a rich general education group to stay in existence but am personally happy that BG is worried about staying financially viable. The commitee that takes oversight will review the recommendations and make the ones that seem reasonable and do not take away from the overall message of the institution. Trust me in the long run this will benefit everyone including the faculty when more of them keep jobs as the school stays viable.

[mscarn]

It's justifying your existence and self-preservation. The consultants want to justify their usage by recommending the latest trendy fad and making it sound as wonderful as possible. (Do you really need a group to tell you online courses are cheaper?) The faculty association wants to preserve their members jobs, salaries and benefits, not necessarily in that order. It would be nice to have an honest arbiter not pushing an agenda.

[footballguy51]

I'm an adminstrative staff member on campus, so I guess I fall into that Administrator role. It's nice to know that the job I do isn't as important. Yet, I do teach a class or two every year AND I directly work with students and impact retention. I guarantee no faculty member would want my job, and 90% of faculty wouldn't want to do the adminstrative jobs on campus.

Besides, if the argument wants to be made that it sucks faculty are losing their jobs, the latest news article on that states the money being saved by these cuts are being put directly towards the raises promised to faculty in the CBA. If they didn't demand those raises, those faculty would probably still have their jobs. Amazing how that works. Also amazing that most non-tenure faculty I had spoken with were against the faculty union because they felt it did not adequately represent them.

[Lord_Byron]

Lets not become like "Chester" at UK questioning the priorities of the university:

http://kentuckysportsradio.com/main/che ... est-calls/

The mission of the University is education of the complete student. Athletics is part of that as much as theater, music and arts.

[Falcon Commander]

can this thread be moved here:

"A place to reminisce about the past or talk about the future of BGSU and Bowling Green."

[BGWriter]

I'm an adminstrative staff member on campus, so I guess I fall into that Administrator role. It's nice to know that the job I do isn't as important. Yet, I do teach a class or two every year AND I directly work with students and impact retention. I guarantee no faculty member would want my job, and 90% of faculty wouldn't want to do the adminstrative jobs on campus.

Besides, if the argument wants to be made that it sucks faculty are losing their jobs, the latest news article on that states the money being saved by these cuts are being put directly towards the raises promised to faculty in the CBA. If they didn't demand those raises, those faculty would probably still have their jobs. Amazing how that works. Also amazing that most non-tenure faculty I had spoken with were against the faculty union because they felt it did not adequately represent them.

Unions are all about getting as much $$$$$$ as they can. That means the little guys generally get screwed. If your pay check is bigger, so are your dues. Nobody should ever fall for the line that unions protect employees -- it's baloney. Unions protect unions and their bosses (and their money). That's it. Anyone who has had to work in a union (or in a union atmosphere on either side) knows what a quagmire of crap it usually is, and not to the benefit of either the company (or university) or people.

[mscarn]

the money being saved by these cuts are being put directly towards the raises promised to faculty in the CBA. If they didn't demand those raises, those faculty would probably still have their jobs. Amazing how that works. Also amazing that most non-tenure faculty I had spoken with were against the faculty union because they felt it did not adequately represent them.

+1. The non-tenured faculty lost their jobs so the tenured could get raises. All about education my foot.

[FalconRA]

+1 on the take on the unions and Footballguy51 as a former RA at BG I can tell you that Administrators made the biggest impact on me while I was in college. Thus why I am now one myself. I understand your feelings but know that you matter!