Well, the Smith Family CFO (aka my wife) has asked me about the travel budget for our annual football road trip, since we're seriously considering a November trip to Florida to see my parents.
So I start clicking around on some travel sites to price flights, etc. Like I did last year, I check the flights to Cleveland and Detroit. The former looks to be $240, the latter $260. Yikes, I think, that's more than I paid last year. But last year I stumbled upon a fluke where flights that went from Philly to Detroit to Toledo were actually cheaper than flights that just went from Philly to Detroit.
Or was it a fluke?
Let's find out. I type in Toledo and, you guessed it, a flight from Philly to Cleveland to Toledo for $229. That's right, cheaper than getting off the same exact flight a stop earlier.
And we're supposed to wonder why so many airlines are in financial trouble? What the heck? It will save me at least $20 to take the additional flight and get closer to my actual destination.
It gets better, of course. A bottom-of-the-line car will run me about $43 out of Toledo. That same exact car will run me $48 out of Detroit and $55 out of Cleveland. OK, $5 ain't much, but it's another trip to the Doyt concession stand!
So I'm saving $25 by taking the extra flight to Toledo, plus saving myself driving time from the airport to BG.
You know, I thought I knew a lot more about how businesses operate after I finished my MBA, but it appears I still have a lot to learn.
What is it with airline pricing?
Being in the aviation industry I can tell you that most of these airlines cannot win. Southwest is about the only airline that has it all down and runs a smart operation. Everyone else should try to mold their operation around SW. I believe they are the only airline to yield a profit in every quarter since 9/11. The situation you describe has a lot to do with demand. Hell there are a lot times when two, one way tickets will end up costing you less than one round trip ticket. It doesn't make sense but it happens,
Also it is almost always cheaper ot fly into airports like Toledo and canton/akron than to fly into cleveland or detroit. Less hassle too.
Most of these airlines are in a no win situation. When you see those crazy deals like fly to cancun for $99 the airline is no doubt losing money. There is no way they can pay the fuel prices to do that when its costs 2.50/gallon. Than at the same time if they make the price $300 they will never come close to filling the airplane. With aviation fuel is high as it they simply cannot all be making money, and quite obviously they are not. I have seen a couple airlines that have locked in to one rate for fuel but most of them are scared to do that because who knows maybe next month gas will 1.40 a gallon again. There #1 problem right now is fuel costs, and it is driving pleanty of them into bankruptcy.
I do not work for an airline, I work for the FAA and we are definitely not void of our own problems too, but I am glad to be working for the government and not an airline.
Fuel costs more than ever yet people are unwilling to pay prices that they did four years ago. This spells trouble for the aviation industry. How can they make $$ when everything costs them more and people are less willing to fly? These airlines are offering ticket prices where they are losing money yet people complain about the prices.
I think most of these places have been run poorly over the past four years but it is not entirely their own fault. It's hard to make up the money that a 270,000 pound aircraft uses in flight and maintenance and still offer rates that are cheaper then they were 4 years ago.
Also it is almost always cheaper ot fly into airports like Toledo and canton/akron than to fly into cleveland or detroit. Less hassle too.
Most of these airlines are in a no win situation. When you see those crazy deals like fly to cancun for $99 the airline is no doubt losing money. There is no way they can pay the fuel prices to do that when its costs 2.50/gallon. Than at the same time if they make the price $300 they will never come close to filling the airplane. With aviation fuel is high as it they simply cannot all be making money, and quite obviously they are not. I have seen a couple airlines that have locked in to one rate for fuel but most of them are scared to do that because who knows maybe next month gas will 1.40 a gallon again. There #1 problem right now is fuel costs, and it is driving pleanty of them into bankruptcy.
I do not work for an airline, I work for the FAA and we are definitely not void of our own problems too, but I am glad to be working for the government and not an airline.
Fuel costs more than ever yet people are unwilling to pay prices that they did four years ago. This spells trouble for the aviation industry. How can they make $$ when everything costs them more and people are less willing to fly? These airlines are offering ticket prices where they are losing money yet people complain about the prices.
I think most of these places have been run poorly over the past four years but it is not entirely their own fault. It's hard to make up the money that a 270,000 pound aircraft uses in flight and maintenance and still offer rates that are cheaper then they were 4 years ago.
kdog:
Thanks for the insider's viewpoint!
I understand the premise that some airports are more costly to fly in and out of. Philly is notoriously expensive, from what I've read.
In the scenario I describe above, I'd be flying into Cleveland and making a connection. Does the airline not incur the same cost as it would if my flight terminated in Cleveland?
I agree, the whole system seems like a house of cards and I can't imagine there being too many airlines standing when we look up in a few years.
Thanks for the insider's viewpoint!
I understand the premise that some airports are more costly to fly in and out of. Philly is notoriously expensive, from what I've read.
In the scenario I describe above, I'd be flying into Cleveland and making a connection. Does the airline not incur the same cost as it would if my flight terminated in Cleveland?
I agree, the whole system seems like a house of cards and I can't imagine there being too many airlines standing when we look up in a few years.
I run into this issue every week. When I'm travelling on business, it isn't worth the time to sit in an extra airport to make a connection, but when I'm paying, sometimes it is.
I've seen instances where taking the extra flight saves more than $100.
Columbus is generally a cheaper airport to use than some others.
I guess it's good for me that I can fly out of Detroit, Toledo, Cleveland, Columbus, or Akron because drive times are about the same.
I've seen instances where taking the extra flight saves more than $100.
Columbus is generally a cheaper airport to use than some others.
I guess it's good for me that I can fly out of Detroit, Toledo, Cleveland, Columbus, or Akron because drive times are about the same.
All is for the best in this best of all possible worlds.
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Falconfreak90
- Rubber City Falcon
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'87,
Why not fly into Akron/Canton, we'll pick you up at the airport (10 min from the Freak House) and we'll all go up to the game in one vehicle? You have a place to stay, no charge. You don't have to rent a car.
I know US Airways has non stop from Philly to Akron and vice versa...just announced a couple weeks ago. Don't know the cost but you and Noah have an invitation to stay here anytime! Check it out.
Why not fly into Akron/Canton, we'll pick you up at the airport (10 min from the Freak House) and we'll all go up to the game in one vehicle? You have a place to stay, no charge. You don't have to rent a car.
I know US Airways has non stop from Philly to Akron and vice versa...just announced a couple weeks ago. Don't know the cost but you and Noah have an invitation to stay here anytime! Check it out.
Michael W.
BGSU-12 TIME MAC CHAMPION
FALCON FOOTBALL ROCKS!
BGSU-12 TIME MAC CHAMPION
FALCON FOOTBALL ROCKS!
Freak: Hadn't thought of A-C, but I'll look into it! Thanks for the offer. BTW, Noah still has some stuff for Josh & Jake from the GMAC Bowl.Falconfreak90 wrote:'87,
Why not fly into Akron/Canton, we'll pick you up at the airport (10 min from the Freak House) and we'll all go up to the game in one vehicle? You have a place to stay, no charge. You don't have to rent a car.
I know US Airways has non stop from Philly to Akron and vice versa...just announced a couple weeks ago. Don't know the cost but you and Noah have an invitation to stay here anytime! Check it out.
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Class of 61
- Peregrine
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87,1987alum wrote:You gotta love this.
Cheapest flight, Philly to Akron-Canton is $295, connecting in either Cincinnati or Detroit.
Before my brother retired as a pilot with Continental (FAA mandate=60 yr. old) I used to pick his brain about various things about flying..i.e. type of aircraft etc.
When we got to talking about COSTS however, he said, " don't ask me about ticket prices; it's a 'black art'". This, after a flight from Cleve. to Denver would've cost me more than $50 on the SAME DAY but approx. 2 hrs. later. Remember, the offer in Sag. Hills is still also open if you can't take the Freak's offer.
Education our Challenge, Excellence our goal. (look it up)
It is really hard to say why the price is $230 to fly to Toledo Express, and it costs to 260 to fly into cleveland. I am with you that it makes no sense. I tell everyone to always look into the prices at KTOL, and KCAK before trying KCLE and KDTW.1987alum wrote:kdog:
Thanks for the insider's viewpoint!
I understand the premise that some airports are more costly to fly in and out of. Philly is notoriously expensive, from what I've read.
In the scenario I describe above, I'd be flying into Cleveland and making a connection. Does the airline not incur the same cost as it would if my flight terminated in Cleveland?
I agree, the whole system seems like a house of cards and I can't imagine there being too many airlines standing when we look up in a few years.
I'm sure costs at KTol are much cheaper from everything of the cost to land (automatic charge every time a plane touches down) to the cost of the terminal space. But why it is less makes no sense. I do know that these places are looking for a happy medium price that makes the customer and happy and they still make money. Most of them have not found it yet.
And 230? keep looking around, my girlfriend is flying in from philly to cleve at the end of the month and it is going be 160. I'll ask her what airline she is flying.
I don't consider myself to be an expert on this by any means. I am a pilot but that is soley recreational. However, as an air traffic controller this is a subject that could affect me down the road so it is something I pay attention to. I know pleanty of people who spent 100k to go to school and be a pilot and cannot find a job paying more than 23k. Everyone thinks pilots make so much money, the truth is very few of them make salaries in the six figures, and the ones who do are now taking huge paycuts. For every captain making 150k there is probably 50 pilots flying regional jets for a sixth of that.
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Falconfreak90
- Rubber City Falcon
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kdog:
If Southwest flew from Philly to Cleveland, we'd probably be in great shape. But when Noah and I travel, we usually aren't too flexible on times. In this case, I want to avoid taking him out of school if I can while still getting into Toledo before midnight. And return times are an issue because I want to get him home so he can get a good night's sleep before going back to school. Lack of flexibility can really jack the price up!
That being said, we're eight months out, so I'm not going to sweat it.
If Southwest flew from Philly to Cleveland, we'd probably be in great shape. But when Noah and I travel, we usually aren't too flexible on times. In this case, I want to avoid taking him out of school if I can while still getting into Toledo before midnight. And return times are an issue because I want to get him home so he can get a good night's sleep before going back to school. Lack of flexibility can really jack the price up!
That being said, we're eight months out, so I'm not going to sweat it.
87,
Since moving here I am amazed at Harrisburg's airport. It was cheaper to fly from H-burg (mdt international) to Toledo, LasVegas, or Seattle than to any of those locations from Baltimore, Philly, Dulles, or Pittsburgh. Then again, I'm usually flexible.
I know that's not going to help you with the extra hassle of driving 2 hours, but it's a simple airport to get through.
I asked about the pricing at the airport last month and was told they very often try to fill the small commuter planes by discounting the connecting flight. Makes sense I guess, especially with all the variables associated with the cost and demand of travel.
Too bad we couldn't get enough people to charter our own.
Since moving here I am amazed at Harrisburg's airport. It was cheaper to fly from H-burg (mdt international) to Toledo, LasVegas, or Seattle than to any of those locations from Baltimore, Philly, Dulles, or Pittsburgh. Then again, I'm usually flexible.
I know that's not going to help you with the extra hassle of driving 2 hours, but it's a simple airport to get through.
I asked about the pricing at the airport last month and was told they very often try to fill the small commuter planes by discounting the connecting flight. Makes sense I guess, especially with all the variables associated with the cost and demand of travel.
Too bad we couldn't get enough people to charter our own.
Cork, kdog:
I'm going to consider all options when the time comes. I did check Trenton-Mercer last year, but came up with some ugly times and dollar figures. I also checked Allentown, but got the same thing. All of that seems to change daily, so as we get into September, I'll start again.
As for driving - I did that the first time. Noah is a great traveller, but the 9-hour drive back was a tough one.
I'm going to consider all options when the time comes. I did check Trenton-Mercer last year, but came up with some ugly times and dollar figures. I also checked Allentown, but got the same thing. All of that seems to change daily, so as we get into September, I'll start again.
As for driving - I did that the first time. Noah is a great traveller, but the 9-hour drive back was a tough one.
