I finally get it: - A paradigm shifting moment watching EIU

[hammb]

If the offense is doing their job then we cannot be dominated because they are expected to score a TD every time they have the ball.

Yet we expect the other team to not score every time they get the ball because odds are they are going screw up somewhere because it's so difficult to execute plays? I'll put my money on the offense that's being given wide open looks every time over the up tempo offense.

Forget all this bullshit. Why does having an offense like this mean we have to play defense like this. What the hell good is it doing?

Yes, Babers believes his offense will be superior to the opponents' offense, regardless of which defense we're playing.

That said, I'm in somewhat agreement with you. There is no reason that you MUST play a passive bend but don't break defense with this offensive philosophy. In fact, I thought Babers wanted a more aggressive defense that forced turnovers. Maybe, just maybe, the all world defense we had under Clawson doesn't have the talent to do what Babers actually wants to do? I dunno, just throwing it out there because everybody has passed judgement on the defensive coaches without even considering that the talent here doesn't fit the scheme he wants to run...so he's trying to do SOMETHING.

Or they're all incompetent. I don't know. I didn't watch EIU other than film to see Garoppolo. What I did see I fell in love with the offense. Offense gets recruits, offense sells tickets, and offense wins. If Babers builds the offense he wants here there is absolutely no reason we cannot win MAC titles, win bowl games, and even knock off a few powerhouses (something that was never going to happen with the Clawson style). As much as I hated Brandon, I never hated his philosophy of building the offense to a juggernaut first...that's exactly the way I feel mid majors should build their program.

Personally I'd like to see this offensive approach paired with a super fast defense. DL that can pin their ears back and get to the QB and force turnovers. I'd play mostly zone coverages, but I'd do so with blitzing and havoc to get the QB to force the ball into the zone. Sacks and turnovers. If the offense is humming it only takes a couple failed drives to take the opposition completely out of their gameplan. And this is where I will defend the current coaches if it is what they want as well. We don't have the front 7 talent to play that style of defense. Clawson built a great front 7 to stuff the run, but our pass rush just isn't there.

[daspollak]

Va. Tech's D showed how you should do it, with heavy pressure and press coverage.

[Beaker]

If the offense is doing their job then we cannot be dominated because they are expected to score a TD every time they have the ball.

Yet we expect the other team to not score every time they get the ball because odds are they are going screw up somewhere because it's so difficult to execute plays? I'll put my money on the offense that's being given wide open looks every time over the up tempo offense.

Forget all this bullshit. Why does having an offense like this mean we have to play defense like this. What the hell good is it doing?

Absolutely correct and what I've been thinking all along. Debate the virtues of the hurry up/spread offense vs ball control/play action pass/pound it out with the run offense all you want, but to me, I see no reason to adopt this kind of defensive philosophy, regardless of what style offense you run. The object of defense is to stop your opponent from scoring and get the ball back. Period.

I can maybe see being forced into playing back in soft zones and protecting your backside as a very last resort, only if you simply don't have the talent or ability to be aggressive in attacking the line of scrimmage and make disruptive plays because you don't have the personnel capable of doing it. Coming into this season, I thought we would take a slight step back on the defensive side, but that we still had enough returning experienced players, along with young talent that we would still be a very competetive defense in our conference and should not experience a drastic downturn from what we saw the last couple years. (taking injuries out of the mix) As we know, Babers himself said it was the best defense he has ever been around. That said, I don't know why they are not allowed to play an aggressive style, akin to what we are used to. Just because we now run a spread offense should not mean we have to jetison our old defensive philosphy that these players have known and had success with, in favor of a style of play that's very different and less likely to do what defenses are supposed to do --- stop your opponent from scoring and get the ball back.

If our corners have a tough time playing tight man to man coverage, then don't give up on it and surrender to a soft zone that makes it ultra easy on offenses. Work to get better and keep working at it. Let them get more game experience and keep coaching it and I'm betting we would would see improvements come conference time. Right now in most cases, opposing WR's seem to have the advantage over our corners, but that doesn't mean we can't improve as time goes on. Bring more blitzes to help out the corners. The current philosophy is that if we make a team execute 10-12 plays to get down the field to score, then they are bound to make a mistake at some point. On the flip side, you can say that pressing the receivers and making maximum effort to pressure the QB and hurry his throws can lead to more mistakes, turnovers and stops than letting him sit back and survey the field and pick you apart. Sure, you get a much higher risk of giving up big plays that way, but you also give yourself a better chance of getting stops. I like my chances that way, vs sitting back and giving up the points anyway and having your defense worn out from being on the field all day. Yes, the bend don't break philosophy worked last week, but that was VMI. If we continue to sit back and play a timid style of defense, the next couple games will get very, very ugly.

[Schadenfreude]

Why does having an offense like this mean we have to play defense like this.

Indeed.

The only connections between offensive performance and defensive performance seem to be this:

1. An offense that operates quickly will give the other team more opportunities to score against your defense.
2. An offense that turns the ball over a lot is going to put your defense in some tough situations.

To otherwise connect the two seems misguided to me. Our offense isn't the reason that WKU shredded our defense, particularly on those outside screens.

[Flipper]

I honestly don't know if the defensive lapses are a product of the system or the players. We burned redshirts on two CB's Saturday because the guys ahead of them weren't challenging the WR's..at least that's what the HC says. That doesn't sound like a guy who's taking a passive approach to defense. Maybe we should all just slow down, take a deep breath and consider that the defense...like the offense... has a new system to adjust to an d that there are going to be growing pains associated with that. I don't mind seeing us give up yards between the 20's if we..at some point...make a play that keeps them out of the end zone.

[kdog27]

I was excited about this hire. It may appear from my recent posts that I don't like this style of play but I am totally for the offense we run. I love stats and seeing records broken.

With that said our defense has left all of us scratching our heads. Babers claimed to be in love with our defense much more so than the offense all summer. In all the scrimmages he talked about how they were making all these big plays and forcing interceptions. He basically said this defense is going to create havoc, cause disruptions and be unpredictable. He said there might be times they get burnt but that will be countered by the sacks and turnovers they create.

After both games now he has claimed his players in the secondary are not doing what they are told. Why did it take 6 quarters to put them on the bench and say hey I'm the coach, wtf are you doing out there?

I'd honestly like to see us get burnt deep sometimes. At least then I knew we were trying. This pansy defense is difficult to watch. That Western game was embarrassing.

Perhaps they do stink or just aren't getting the system. Then I suppose coach shouldn't have spoken so highly of them all summer and created high expectations for us. He sure made it seem like he had great players on both sides.

[Flipper]

Pansy defense? I think it's a question of methodology rather than getting all wrapped up in some "macho head game". I don't think pressing every play is a sign that you're trying...I think keeping the other guys out of the end zone is a better bench mark.

The operating philosophy here seems to be "i'm going to score on you a lot and do so quickly...if you are going to score on me it is going to take awhile because I'm not giving you the opportunity to go over the top of my defense"

If you fail to execute by tackling the man in front of you with the ball...like the WKU game...you're going to get drilled.
It wil be interesting to see how aggressive the defense becomes with respect to creating turnovers..that's going to have to come on aggressive breaks to the ball by our CB's.

[kdog27]

Yeah that's what I think of it. Line up off the ball every play and give up 40 first downs and 59 points. They didn't work very hard and execution clearly wasn't a problem. It's not like things tightened up inside the 30 yard line. There are times when corner backs need to line up off the ball but when it is done on every single snap regardless of situation... absurd.

What I mean by trying is yeah they may get beat sometimes, but the other side of that is they make plays sometimes too. Babers himself said they would play that way. This defense has been 100% reactionary. They don't force the QB into any difficult decisions because there is no pressure and somebody is always wide open.

[Flipper]

Gonna have to let go of the opening game....players and coaches agree it was a piss poor effort and that there were flaws aplenty. Nothing can be done about that now...they have an idea of where they want to go and how they want to play, I'm not going to let the one game be a determining factor...not any more than the IU or UT games were last year. People wanted to flense Clawson after the Toledo game...hell, there were people on this board screaming bloody murder at the half of the Buffalo game. But..the team took care of business then and we were all sad when he left.

I'm willing to give Babers more than a few weeks before I call him an idiot...a pansy..or a failure.

[kdog27]

Agreed.

[Rollo83]

Gonna have to let go of the opening game....players and coaches agree it was a piss poor effort and that there were flaws aplenty. Nothing can be done about that now...they have an idea of where they want to go and how they want to play, I'm not going to let the one game be a determining factor...not any more than the IU or UT games were last year. People wanted to flense Clawson after the Toledo game...hell, there were people on this board screaming bloody murder at the half of the Buffalo game. But..the team took care of business then and we were all sad when he left.

I'm willing to give Babers more than a few weeks before I call him an idiot...a pansy..or a failure.

Preach it, brother!

[hammb]

I'd honestly like to see us get burnt deep sometimes. At least then I knew we were trying. This pansy defense is difficult to watch. That Western game was embarrassing. .

Again, we got beat deep several times in the VMI game. Luckily their QB missed the throws or they dropped them. But we definitely got beaten over the top; probably too often considering the opposition.

And having not seen the first game, but hearing all the bitching, I did pay attention specifically to where our CBs were lined up, and there were plenty of times we lined up tight on the WRs. Didn't matter because we still couldn't cover them.

Right now the defense sucks, and the players aren't executing. We burned redshirts of guys looking for guys who will execute. I'm quite certain coach Babers and everybody else would like to see better play from the defense, the secondary especially. I just don't think we can pass judgement on the scheme alone at this point when we've only seen it for a couple of games...one of which was a vastly overmatched 1AA squad. I still say that the issues we're having are just as much execution as they are scheme, and clearly the coaches feel that way as well or they wouldn't be pulling redshirts to put new guys in.

[gspointer]

I'd honestly like to see us get burnt deep sometimes. At least then I knew we were trying. This pansy defense is difficult to watch. That Western game was embarrassing. .

Again, we got beat deep several times in the VMI game. Luckily their QB missed the throws or they dropped them. But we definitely got beaten over the top; probably too often considering the opposition.

And having not seen the first game, but hearing all the bitching, I did pay attention specifically to where our CBs were lined up, and there were plenty of times we lined up tight on the WRs. Didn't matter because we still couldn't cover them.

Right now the defense sucks, and the players aren't executing. We burned redshirts of guys looking for guys who will execute. I'm quite certain coach Babers and everybody else would like to see better play from the defense, the secondary especially. I just don't think we can pass judgement on the scheme alone at this point when we've only seen it for a couple of games...one of which was a vastly overmatched 1AA squad. I still say that the issues we're having are just as much execution as they are scheme, and clearly the coaches feel that way as well or they wouldn't be pulling redshirts to put new guys in.

I would say the Indiana game will be a good measuring stick. Ball State nearly pulling off an upset and CMU and NIU beating big ten teams. We were a bowl team and again picked to win our conference. Indiana state hung with Indiana. This is a game we should win. No excuses! If we do not show up and get blown out we will be in the tidy bowl watching brown logs push us down the pipe. Seriously a packed house- we need this game!

[mscarn]

I just don't think we can pass judgement on the scheme alone at this point when we've only seen it for a couple of games

That's fair and some excellent points have been made in support of that sentiment. Maybe it's an recruiting and execution thing that will get rectified at some point. That being said, I'd have more faith that scheme was not the issue if the scheme itself had a better track record at other schools where its been run. EIU routinely gave up huge amounts of points culminating with 49 against Towson in their last playoff game. Art Briles has been at Baylor since 2008 and their defense has been equally as porous up until last year.

Programs are built and rosters are constructed with specific goals in mind. When Meyer was here, he described how he wanted his program to be defense-centric, meaning all decisions are based with the defense in mind. This encompasses everything to playing the most talented players on the defensive side of the ball and allowing defensive coaches to poach players over to their side that could go either way. It means an offensive philosophy centered around controlling the clock and field position, with scoring in the red zone specifically prioritized over scoring quickly and putting the defense back on the field.

As a fan, Clawson's offense was bland, predictable and uninspiring to watch. As a coach, it was the formula he devised and executed expertly to win a Mid-American Conference Championship. Babers has his own formula that has yielded championships and he deserves the right and the time to see it implemented to his liking. In the interim, though, we'll have to accept the clunky process of fitting square pegs into round holes and the results of it on the field.

[kdog27]

I'd honestly like to see us get burnt deep sometimes. At least then I knew we were trying. This pansy defense is difficult to watch. That Western game was embarrassing. .

Again, we got beat deep several times in the VMI game. Luckily their QB missed the throws or they dropped them. But we definitely got beaten over the top; probably too often considering the opposition.

And having not seen the first game, but hearing all the bitching, I did pay attention specifically to where our CBs were lined up, and there were plenty of times we lined up tight on the WRs. Didn't matter because we still couldn't cover them.

Right now the defense sucks, and the players aren't executing. We burned redshirts of guys looking for guys who will execute. I'm quite certain coach Babers and everybody else would like to see better play from the defense, the secondary especially. I just don't think we can pass judgement on the scheme alone at this point when we've only seen it for a couple of games...one of which was a vastly overmatched 1AA squad. I still say that the issues we're having are just as much execution as they are scheme, and clearly the coaches feel that way as well or they wouldn't be pulling redshirts to put new guys in.

I would say the Indiana game will be a good measuring stick. Ball State nearly pulling off an upset and CMU and NIU beating big ten teams. We were a bowl team and again picked to win our conference. Indiana state hung with Indiana. This is a game we should win. No excuses! If we do not show up and get blown out we will be in the tidy bowl watching brown logs push us down the pipe. Seriously a packed house- we need this game!

I still consider this to be a very winnable game. If the games over the past weekend are of any indication, the bottom half of the Big whatever is about on par with much of the MAC.

I like that they have only played one game and it was against ISU. I'd be surprised if we're being taken very seriously after the way they beat us last year. Hopefully they have all been thinking about their next game vs Missouri. No way they hold us to only ten points again.
I also hope we do a good job of getting butts in the seats before kickoff.

I would love nothing more then to see this team shut me up on Saturday. Go Falcons!