Holmes goes down

[Flipper]

The worst case scenario for a second round big is to become Quincy Miller...a guy who is perpetually signed to 10 day deals, shuffled from one team to another or stashed in the D league. I think I'd rather be cut than have the "security" of someone holding my rights while I'm on the outside of the league looking in.

[BGroars22]

Actually, it is not silly. Look at the last 2 37th picks. The second round is a roll of the dice, very shaky position to be in.

Looking at the last two 37th picks says the opposite. Teams just don't dump their second round picks without getting something in return. Daniels was eurostashed (Raptors retain his rights), and the Pistons later traded Mitchell to the Suns.

Realistically, the only chance he has to go to another team is if the 76ers trade him/his rights

to another team.

The raptors received nothing for Daniels while he played in Australia. He never signed a contract and has appeared in no games, nor has he ever been on the official roster for the Raptors.

Mitchell has played 21 games in 2 NBA seasons. He has not been on an official NBA roster for more than 2 consecutive months in his career, often being sent to the D-League. He was waived in January before the deadline so the Suns would not have to pay him for the season because his contract was not guaranteed. This is the definition of dumping a second round pick literally.

The Raptors still retain his rights while he plays in Australia. They haven't dumped him. Plans were to bring him on board for the 2015-2016 season, but an injury may have derailed that. Might go back overseas for another year before the Raptors hope to sign him. Mitchell was traded, and dumped by his new team, not the team that drafted him. That was a year and half after he was drafted, yet Holmes wasn't even drafted a month ago.

If Holmes isn't healthy to make the 76ers as was suggested, he's got three options.
1. Go overseas (76ers retain his rights)
2. Sign a D-League contract (76ers retain his rights)
3. Sit out a year and be a free agent.

Teams don't simply discard 2nd round picks for nothing, because there simply isn't a reason to do so.

I would define not being paid or being a part of the team as discarded. I agree there is no reason to give away a players rights, but the team holding a players rights means nothing for the player if they don't sign a contract. Btw max D-League salaries are capped at 24k before taxes. Not so great. But hey, at least a team has your rights!

By your logic a student at BGSU who is not a part of the basketball team and not on scholarship could say they are always in the mix for a roster spot. They can't compete for another university while enrolled at BG (rights), but the school they could play for has not put them on the team.

I will not change my opinion to agree that injured second round picks have a great chance to make NBA teams. They simply do not, the odds are against healthy second picks as it is.

This whole discussion started when you said that "it wasn't silly" in regards to Holmes moving on to a another team. As gspointer mentioned, second round picks don't get discarded this quickly. Discarded, as it pertains to this discussion, is to have your rights relinquished by the team that drafted you.

You will not change your opinion to agree that injured 2nd round picks have a great chance to make NBA teams??? When has this ever been the discussion? I have certainly never stated that an injured 2nd round pick has a great shot to make an NBA team.

[commonsense]

Actually, it is not silly. Look at the last 2 37th picks. The second round is a roll of the dice, very shaky position to be in.

Looking at the last two 37th picks says the opposite. Teams just don't dump their second round picks without getting something in return. Daniels was eurostashed (Raptors retain his rights), and the Pistons later traded Mitchell to the Suns.

Realistically, the only chance he has to go to another team is if the 76ers trade him/his rights

to another team.

The raptors received nothing for Daniels while he played in Australia. He never signed a contract and has appeared in no games, nor has he ever been on the official roster for the Raptors.

Mitchell has played 21 games in 2 NBA seasons. He has not been on an official NBA roster for more than 2 consecutive months in his career, often being sent to the D-League. He was waived in January before the deadline so the Suns would not have to pay him for the season because his contract was not guaranteed. This is the definition of dumping a second round pick literally.

The Raptors still retain his rights while he plays in Australia. They haven't dumped him. Plans were to bring him on board for the 2015-2016 season, but an injury may have derailed that. Might go back overseas for another year before the Raptors hope to sign him. Mitchell was traded, and dumped by his new team, not the team that drafted him. That was a year and half after he was drafted, yet Holmes wasn't even drafted a month ago.

If Holmes isn't healthy to make the 76ers as was suggested, he's got three options.
1. Go overseas (76ers retain his rights)
2. Sign a D-League contract (76ers retain his rights)
3. Sit out a year and be a free agent.

Teams don't simply discard 2nd round picks for nothing, because there simply isn't a reason to do so.

I would define not being paid or being a part of the team as discarded. I agree there is no reason to give away a players rights, but the team holding a players rights means nothing for the player if they don't sign a contract. Btw max D-League salaries are capped at 24k before taxes. Not so great. But hey, at least a team has your rights!

By your logic a student at BGSU who is not a part of the basketball team and not on scholarship could say they are always in the mix for a roster spot. They can't compete for another university while enrolled at BG (rights), but the school they could play for has not put them on the team.

I will not change my opinion to agree that injured second round picks have a great chance to make NBA teams. They simply do not, the odds are against healthy second picks as it is.

This whole discussion started when you said that "it wasn't silly" in regards to Holmes moving on to a another team. As gspointer mentioned, second round picks don't get discarded this quickly. Discarded, as it pertains to this discussion, is to have your rights relinquished by the team that drafted you.

You will not change your opinion to agree that injured 2nd round picks have a great chance to make NBA teams??? When has this ever been the discussion? I have certainly never stated that an injured 2nd round pick has a great shot to make an NBA team.

The discussion started with this quote "You don't get drafted barely out of the fist round and get dumped that quickly. Talk of him moving to another team because of this is silly." I stated it was not silly. Many second round picks DO get moved to other teams (NBA, D-League, or international) even when healthy. Throw an injury into the equation, and I believe the chances you will be moved to a different team (NBA, D-League or international) increase. I hope Richaun Holmes makes the 76ers. However, I believe there is a great chance he will be playing for a team other than the 76ers in the 2015-2016 season. Based on NBA draft history, do you think this is silly reasoning?

[BGroars22]

The discussion started with this quote "You don't get drafted barely out of the fist round and get dumped that quickly. Talk of him moving to another team because of this is silly." I stated it was not silly. Many second round picks DO get moved to other teams (NBA, D-League, or international) even when healthy. Throw an injury into the equation, and I believe the chances you will be moved to a different team (NBA, D-League or international) increase. I hope Richaun Holmes makes the 76ers. However, I believe there is a great chance he will be playing for a team other than the 76ers in the 2015-2016 season. Based on NBA draft history, do you think this is silly reasoning?

Right, and in the context of the discussion, “another team” refers to another NBA team. That’s fairly obvious just read a couple posts before that as well.

Based on NBA draft history, it’s silly to say a team has “discarded” a 2nd round pick if he signs to play in the NBDL/Overseas. It’s become SOP to do this if you don’t have room on your roster, or if the guy isn’t going to be getting the minutes he needs to develop. As for Holmes, I haven't examined their contract situation really make a guess.

[commonsense]

The discussion started with this quote "You don't get drafted barely out of the fist round and get dumped that quickly. Talk of him moving to another team because of this is silly." I stated it was not silly. Many second round picks DO get moved to other teams (NBA, D-League, or international) even when healthy. Throw an injury into the equation, and I believe the chances you will be moved to a different team (NBA, D-League or international) increase. I hope Richaun Holmes makes the 76ers. However, I believe there is a great chance he will be playing for a team other than the 76ers in the 2015-2016 season. Based on NBA draft history, do you think this is silly reasoning?

Right, and in the context of the discussion, “another team” refers to another NBA team. That’s fairly obvious just read a couple posts before that as well.

Based on NBA draft history, it’s silly to say a team has “discarded” a 2nd round pick if he signs to play in the NBDL/Overseas. It’s become SOP to do this if you don’t have room on your roster, or if the guy isn’t going to be getting the minutes he needs to develop. As for Holmes, I haven't examined their contract situation really make a guess.

I would disagree with what you think is discarded. The idea of NBA teams sending guys to the NBDL/Overseas is discarding in my opinion. If it were more common that guys sent away to "develope" came back to the NBA, I would agree with you. A second round pick (American college guy) who does not play in the NBA in year one after being drafted is a long shot to make the NBA. It happens, but rarely. It has become commonplace for second round picks to be sent away to develope, it is just rare if they come back.

[BGroars22]

The discussion started with this quote "You don't get drafted barely out of the fist round and get dumped that quickly. Talk of him moving to another team because of this is silly." I stated it was not silly. Many second round picks DO get moved to other teams (NBA, D-League, or international) even when healthy. Throw an injury into the equation, and I believe the chances you will be moved to a different team (NBA, D-League or international) increase. I hope Richaun Holmes makes the 76ers. However, I believe there is a great chance he will be playing for a team other than the 76ers in the 2015-2016 season. Based on NBA draft history, do you think this is silly reasoning?

Right, and in the context of the discussion, “another team” refers to another NBA team. That’s fairly obvious just read a couple posts before that as well.

Based on NBA draft history, it’s silly to say a team has “discarded” a 2nd round pick if he signs to play in the NBDL/Overseas. It’s become SOP to do this if you don’t have room on your roster, or if the guy isn’t going to be getting the minutes he needs to develop. As for Holmes, I haven't examined their contract situation really make a guess.

I would disagree with what you think is discarded. The idea of NBA teams sending guys to the NBDL/Overseas is discarding in my opinion. If it were more common that guys sent away to "develope" came back to the NBA, I would agree with you. A second round pick (American college guy) who does not play in the NBA in year one after being drafted is a long shot to make the NBA. It happens, but rarely. It has become commonplace for second round picks to be sent away to develope, it is just rare if they come back.

It used to only be Europe, but over the past 5 years or so it has become normal to do the same with American born players. The Raptors had no intention to sign Daniels when they drafted him. They helped him find a spot overseas to play. The Wizards just helped Aaron White find a contract overseas since they already have a full roster. The Australian NBL has started to cater itself to this very thing.

Is it rare for American born players to come back and play in the NBA after going overseas? Not at all.
2012- 3 Stashed - 2 played in the NBA in 2014 (Hamilton, Hummel)
2013- 7 Stashed - 3 played in the NBA in 2014 (Muscala, Green, Ennis)

[BleedOrange]

This discussion has revolved around generalities. Here, we have a particular person in a particular situation with a particular team.

Better questions are:
- can Holmes still make the 76ers 2015-16 roster? (Quite possible)
- after Holmes' recovery, will he still have time to round out his game enough to make the roster? (Who knows?)
- is there some hole the 76ers need to fill for which Holmes could be trade fodder? (Quite possibly)
- if the previous possibility comes to be, is this a negative reflection on Holmes' viability in the NBA? (No)
- if Holmes does not make a roster, does Holmes have have an above average ability to improve his game playing 1 year outside the NBA and then making a 2016-17 roster? (Absolutely)

[gspointer]

Baring a trade he will be with the sixers.

[gmartin]

Correct me if I am wrong but what the heck are you talking about the Raptors drafting Daniels and shipping him overseas?????

I know I'm getting older but didn't Daniels get drafted by the Grizzlies as the 3rd pick. Think he had a pretty decent career playing with several teams in the NBA and not in Europe.

[able1]

http://www.nba.com/draft/2014/prospects ... raft:board" target="_blank

[Warthog]

- is there some hole the 76ers need to fill for which Holmes could be trade fodder? (Quite possibly)

A hole in the 76ers roster? Their entire roster is a hole. They aren't trading players to fill a hole in their roster. They trade players to fill a hole in someone else's roster. And get another second round pick in return.

[Globetrotter]

Where are you people with the news?

Holmes signed a long term contract with the first 2 years "significantly" guaranteed. He is now rich getting to do what I assume he loves. Congrats Richaun!

http://www.libertyballers.com/2015/7/29 ... aun-holmes" target="_blank

[BleedOrange]

- is there some hole the 76ers need to fill for which Holmes could be trade fodder? (Quite possibly)

A hole in the 76ers roster? Their entire roster is a hole. They aren't trading players to fill a hole in their roster. They trade players to fill a hole in someone else's roster. And get another second round pick in return.

He he. Noooo, the entire roster isn't a hole. They DO have a center. And, they have a rotation of guys that can play the stretch 4. And they have Stauskus, who can be an OK wing. They could group some second rounders, draft picks, cash, and a big bag of dope to trade for a reasonable point guard. The Sixers have a canyon at point guard.

But screw all this. I'm elated for Richaun getting a 2 year contract. I'm excited to follow his progression. I'll be following the Sixers box scores all season.