hammb wrote:How about I rephrase it by saying if Dieter has a chance to transfer to a "Win at all costs, develop NFL talent as a secondary goal, and ensure national television for every game of the season" team? Does that quantify the difference between the two?
Works for me, brother.
I look at Alabama as a superpower. That's a term that works for me when P5/G5 falls short.
Falconfreak90 wrote: We don't take a back seat to anyone.
Absolutely, and hammb and Shad make excellent points. We are not a farm team and this is not minor league baseball. The Philip Ely comparison is inapt because he was not a starter nor was he immediately eligible after his transfer.
Shrugging your shoulders when a behemoth comes along and snatches up a star player sets a dangerous precedent for every school outside the Power 5 conference structure. This de facto free agency is already destroying mid-major college basketball and its appearance in football should trouble all but the most intensely self-loathing Group of 5/BG football supporter.
Falconfreak90 wrote: We don't take a back seat to anyone.
Absolutely, and hammb and Shad make excellent points. We are not a farm team and this is not minor league baseball. The Philip Ely comparison is inapt because he was not a starter nor was he immediately eligible after his transfer.
Shrugging your shoulders when a behemoth comes along and snatches up a star player sets a dangerous precedent for every school outside the Power 5 conference structure. This de facto free agency is already destroying mid-major college basketball and its appearance in football should trouble all but the most intensely self-loathing Group of 5/BG football supporter.
It works both ways though...I seem to remember we had Eilar Hardy last season who came to BG from Notre Dame and Donovan Wilson who came from Georgia Tech.
What needs to happen is for the NFL to formally acknowledge college football as its farm system and treat it as such, the players, coaches and administrators at big time schools already do.
mscarn wrote:
Absolutely, and hammb and Shad make excellent points. We are not a farm team and this is not minor league baseball.
Yet for nearly a year you clamored for us to play a "minor league" out of conference schedule. Avoiding teams like Tennessee and having FCS teams on our schedule. This right there tells me where you think BG sits on the football landscape.
I'll shrug my shoulders all I want and cheer for the guy that takes his place.
I'm still a bit doubtful this is happening anyway. While I believe Dieter is good enough to play at Alabama I don't think they have an immediate need for a guy who is only eligible for one year. They have loads of talent at WR.
Realistically....there's maybe ten "major college" football teams...teams that have the ability to blanket the country and amass the talent needed to win the National title. Everyone else is window dressing...we help sell the illusion that this thing is anything like the honourable game it was in the good old days. It was a lie back then too...but that's beside the point. We provide an honest game...as honest as you'll find when Toledo isn't shaving points...so the people will believe that it isn't just a ten team league marking time until they know which four actually matter that year.
I'm good with that...I don't want to be tied to them. I'd be happier being Dayton or Mount Union than them.
It's not the fall that hurts...it's when you hit the ground.
hammb wrote:How about I rephrase it by saying if Dieter has a chance to transfer to a "Win at all costs, develop NFL talent as a secondary goal, and ensure national television for every game of the season" team? Does that quantify the difference between the two?
Works for me, brother.
I look at Alabama as a superpower. That's a term that works for me when P5/G5 falls short.
I just go with "semi-pro."
"I don't believe I can name a coach, anywhere, anytime, anyhow, who did it better than Doyt Perry."
-1955 BG Assistant Bo Schembechler
mscarn wrote:We again prove we have quite arguably the nicest fan base in Division I athletics. One wonders what the reaction of the Alabama fan base would be if the situation was reversed.
Toledo's qb transferred from Alabama so there is a precedence. I don't remember alabama fans caring much.
That's a ridiculous comparison. Ely was a marginal guy buried on the depth chart at a school that essentially hand picks each year who it wants - nationally - and gets most of them. Half the Alabama fan base probably didn't even know who Ely was, or is, for that matter. Alabama lost nothing whatsoever when he left and went to Toledo, it simply opened up a spot for someone better to step in there. Dieter on the other hand is arguably BG's best returning player. I actually think he is THE best player on our team - right now. Losing him would be a major blow and is completely different than Ely leaving Alabama. It's not even a comparison.
It's a bad comparison because the opposite will never happen. Aside from a good player being kicked off a team like say Randy Moss, a MAC school will never get their best. I'm not sure what you want or expect. I'm not trying to pretend BG is something that it isn't.
BG might be division 1 and that makes some here have some pipe dream that we are the same as schools that have athletic budgets more than 10x our size. We play in a small stadium and can't even sell out. I bet the stadium is more than half empty more than not. And I'm talking butts in seats, not some made up number. We play nearly half our games on weeknights. Sorry to say this isn't the place players dream of playing at. I wish it was but it isn't.
None of that makes me enjoy BG football any less. My wife can have her Alabama team that wins a national championship every other year and I'll be a fan of BG whether Dieter is lined up at receiver or not.
Again, I still don't see this happening. If it did though why is it being treated as more of a betrayal than Lewis leaving early? At least Dieter is leaving with a degree. I thought that was what it's all about. Guess not...
Yeah...the struggle to find a term to define the vast differences between the haves and everyone else while arguing that there's no difference between us and the haves is....stupefying.
It's not the fall that hurts...it's when you hit the ground.
Yes there's a difference, but not one so vast that it should be acceptable for the Ohio State's and Alabama's to cavalierly poach star players directly off other FBS teams.
In terms of the schedule, I've always said I'm fine with an Ohio State or Tennessee on the slate every year. Let's take our shot and see what happens. All I had an issue with was filling every single non-conference slot with higher budget teams and not giving BG a breather or games where they're the favorite. It's worth noting that Houston earned the Group of 5 New Year's Six bowl slot playing exactly one P5 road game (against a middling Louisville team), and IMO that type of schedule remains the best and clearest path to that goal.
If it's OK for Alabama to do this then the floodgates are truly open. Every star player from every Group of 5 (or low profile Power 5) school that graduate in 4 years are now targets and the schools that took chances on them and developed them for years are left at the altar. That can't be a vision of college football that anyone wants to see.
mscarn wrote:
If it's OK for Alabama to do this then the floodgates are truly open. Every star player from every Group of 5 (or low profile Power 5) school that graduate in 4 years are now targets and the schools that took chances on them and developed them for years are left at the altar. That can't be a vision of college football that anyone wants to see.
Well it's already pretty wide spread. Louisville has 2 players on their basketball team that are graduate transfers. I only known about it because their name is all over the news today. So I'd infer it's going on a good deal and across several sports.
Maybe I'll show this subject more respect when it's more than bar fly rumors. No disrepect to lookimory.
I personally don't have a problem with it. If someone has earned their bachelor's degree, they should be able to pursue a master's at another school without penalty.
There is almost nothing about how college football ACTUALLY works that is a vision of the sport I'd like to see, but you're making way too much out of this.
The situation you're talking about only happens to the handful of redshirted players that graduate in 4 years and also show the ability on the field to play at a high enough level that they'd get playing time for an Alabama or OSU. The reality is that there just aren't that many kids that play at BG that would ever see the field for those squads, even as 5th year seniors. I don't think it's gonna happen anymore often than it already is.
And to Flipper's point we benefit from the rule by getting 5th year seniors from mega semi-pro or whatever the hell we're calling them now, programs that can be 1 year starters for us, but weren't good enough to play on those teams.
Face it guys, we're all Division 1 but those programs and us are not on the same planet. Not saying I don't think we deserve a shot at them, I do think that we deserve a shot in a playoff, but I also know that 99x out of a 100 our conference rep would get steamrolled.
Specifically, Dieter owes us nothing. He came here and gave us 2 great years on the field. If he transfers he'll be doing it with a BGSU degree in hand. I don't begrudge him one bit, just like I don't begrudge Lewis for going pro. All I ask is guys come here and respect the school and represent it well on and off the field while they're enrolled. These guys have done more than we could ever ask in that regard, so why get all bent out of shape if they're ready to move on?
Flipper wrote:Was it ok for us to "cavalierly poach" Eilar Hardy from Notre Dame... or do we get a mulligan because we're a lil ol' MAC school?
Eliar Hardy started two career games at Notre Dame. Dieter is a superstar player at BG. Hardy became a great player for us, but comparing his impact at Notre Dame to Dieter's impact at BG at their respective points of arrival and (speculative as of now) departure is ridiculous.
I don't fault Dieter one bit if any of this is indeed true. I fault the system that permits it.
