BG vs NIU

[Flipper]

It's a what have you done for me lately world. Roos has a lot riding on next year.

So far as the men go.... no question that the malaise started when Dakich came back. Orr was the very personification of the word lackadaisical... maybe soporific.... at the very least dispassionate. Jans was just another delay in the reset. The stench of losing clings to the program like that parking attendant's body odor clung to Seinfeld's car. When the Tisdale's, Mayleben's, Denny's and their ilk have cycled on out of here, maybe then we'll see some progress.

[BGSU33]

It's certainly too early for any firm assessment but losing a team like this isn't evidence that Huger is a good coach.

I don't think anyone is saying Huger is or isn't a good coach. It's way too early to tell. But we'll find out the answer to that question in the next 2-3 years. We all can see what our problems are. They are glaring right now. He obviously can see them too. The question now is can he go out and recruit the kind of guys we need, and retain and develop the ones we already have, to be successful? Pre-WVU Dakich recruited decently but his biggest downfall was he couldn't retain any of them as we had so many transfers leaving that "senior day" essentially never existed. We were always in rebuilding mode year after year after year because of all the defections and could never move forward because we lost so many players due to transferring. Orr did a much better job retaining players but didn't develop them, utilize them properly or tap into their potential. Jans seemed to find a way to tap into the potentisl but wasn't here long enough to show if he could recruit or develop. Huger is an alumn, has a brand new arena, has new financial resources, isn't strapped with high expectations and is embraced by many. If he doesn't do well with all that in his corner, well, there will be the answer to the question as to if he's a good coach of not.

[Globetrotter]

This team doesn't lack talent. They have a lot of very decent players. They have guys who you can easily win with as starters on your team. The problem is they are all average. The coaches are gettin less and less out of them every week. They don't seem to have any heart or bball iq. No one seems to be developing. They don't seem to be playing any better together now then three months ago which seems impossible. Yet huger is starting the same players and has pretty much the same rotation. Of Orr did this we'd be furious. I think Orr did do this and we were furious.

[BGSU33]

The stench of losing clings to the program like that parking attendant's body odor clung to Seinfeld's car.

"Do you smell that??"

"What, am I hard of smelling???"

[hammb]

It's certainly too early for any firm assessment but losing a team like this isn't evidence that Huger is a good coach.

I don't think he's lost the team as much as the players just suck and/or don't seem to give a damn. And the one card coaches have over players is playing time but there isn't much be can do by changing up his rotation either.

We have at least 3 scholarship players that he flat out cannot put on the floor without expecting it to be basically playing 5 on 4.

I just think huger has a very specific way he wants his team to play and they don't have near the talent to play that way. I suppose I could argue he should try to get more motion or set plays in the offense, but I won't fault him too much because the style of basketball he wants them to play is something I also believe in.

Unfortunately you can't play a penetrating attack the rim offense without Pgs that can make it work, shooters to spread the floor, and wings/bigs that can finish at the rim. We don't really have any of those things.

[Globetrotter]

Ali can attack the basket

Worrell and Alcegaire can finish a t the rim. Parker can finish in traffic although that doesn't really fit exactly what you mean

Denny and Alcegaire have very good three point averages.

I think you are understating what's here.

[Globetrotter]

You can win in the Mac with this roster. Not the entire thing but there is also huge room for development with a Ton of guys. I don't think it's talent 100%. It's a lot of player development and buy in.

[BGSU33]

This team doesn't lack talent. They have a lot of very decent players. They have guys who you can easily win with as starters on your team. The problem is they are all average.

That's where we disagree and the reason stems from your own point. Talent isn't "decent" or "average," talent is an ability to do something well or great. If you're only decent or average, that would be lacking talent.

[hammb]

This team doesn't lack talent. They have a lot of very decent players. They have guys who you can easily win with as starters on your team. The problem is they are all average. The coaches are gettin less and less out of them every week. They don't seem to have any heart or bball iq. No one seems to be developing. They don't seem to be playing any better together now then three months ago which seems impossible. Yet huger is starting the same players and has pretty much the same rotation. Of Orr did this we'd be furious. I think Orr did do this and we were furious.

I'll agree on the lack of development and cohesion as the season has gone on but I couldn't disagree more with the premise of your post.

This team lacks talent in a big way.

Firstly, thanks to Denny going into a coma we have no real shooters.

We have no pg that is a threat to score...when they drive defenses have no respect for their ability to do anything other than pass.

We have 2 wing players who are as likely to chuck up out of control crazy contested shots as they are to beat anybody off the dribble and finish at the rim.

I don't think we have a single player that cracks the starting lineup at Akron, and few would struggle to even see minutes there. About the only option he has to switch up the rotation is to play malik more, which nobody really knows what he can even do. Tisdale, mayleben, and Gomez are worthless. The other guys are all getting minutes and nobody has really shown anything.

I don't see talent on this team at all. No more than talking about how Orr's teams looked more athletic than Dakich's, but still never looked like actual basketball players.

[hammb]

Ali can attack the basket

Worrell and Alcegaire can finish a t the rim. Parker can finish in traffic although that doesn't really fit exactly what you mean

Denny and Alcegaire have very good three point averages.

I think you are understating what's here.

If worrell and alcegaire can finish at the rim I'd like to see them start doing it.

Dennys percentage from 3 may look good on the season but he's been awful the last month.

Ali can penetrate but he's little threat to finish on his own and lately when he sets others up they can't make a layup.

Between worrell, alcegaire, Parker, and Denny they've all been missing layuos left and right the past month. Only lillard looks like a consistent finisher to me. Wiggins seems afraid to dunk and the opponents would just as soon foul him and watch him miss free throws anyhow.

I see some athleticism. I see some skills. I see very little actual talent. I see very little basketball iq, which I believe is mostly a born with thing.

We don't have good players. We won't have a single guy on the all Mac team at any level, imo. Maybe Parker gets an honorable mention...

[BGSU33]

Ali can attack the basket

Worrell and Alcegaire can finish a t the rim. Parker can finish in traffic although that doesn't really fit exactly what you mean

Denny and Alcegaire have very good three point averages.

I think you are understating what's here.

Ali is often out of control and offensively challenged. He's erratic. For every one good play he makes he counters it with a bad one. But his counterpart Joseph is a tortoise and does everything in slow motion. He's the only guy I worry about getting a backcourt violation call when he's running bringing the ball up the floor. Neither of them is an All-MAC PG or the answer at that position for us. Not even if you combined the two of them together into one. Worrell and Wiggins are in over their heads right now, but I see promise in both. They're just too young and are getting schooled and eaten up nightly by other MAC bigs in the posts right now, but I have hope for both down the road. Parker can sometimes finish in traffic, but also like to force it in traffic trying to draw fouls and can take us out of a game just as fast as he can get us back into one. He's way too inconsistent. Denny is one of the worst "good" shooters we've had in a while. Right now he's struggling mightily to find his touch. Alcegaire has great size and a solid body, but is too one-dimensional as he falls in love with shooting threes (which he's only decent at best at best) and never exploits what could be his biggest asset and that is his size and body, which "could" present mismatches on the guys guarding him. He's 6-6 and in the MAC, you're often playing forward and not guard at that hie ight. But if he's just gonna float on the perimeter and shoot fadeaway threes, he's limiting his versatility. Lillard is raw, but has the talent. He too I have high hopes for. Tisdale is athletic as hell, but for as fun as it is to see him rise up and flush one, he counters it with his inability to shoot, and teams know it. They sag and posh off of him. Mayleben is so damn soft (was gonna use a different description but wanted to keep it clean on here) and looks lost half the time. Gomez may as well still be at Iona. I still wouldn't mind seeing a little more of Fox. Because honestly, what could it hurt?

[Globetrotter]

Hammb, I stand by what I said, but I really can't disagree with you either. I have seen every player outside of Tisdale-Malik-Gomez and Mayleben do something special where they could be a solid contributor on a good team.

[BGSU33]

You can win in the Mac with this roster. Not the entire thing but there is also huge room for development with a Ton of guys. I don't think it's talent 100%. It's a lot of player development and buy in.

Are we talking about the said team here? Because I see a team with that roster you're saying can win in the MAC that has now lost 8 of its last 9 in the MAC, has lost 6 straight in the MAC, has lost 5 straight at home in the MAC, and doesn't have a player worthy of being named All-MAC. They're 4-9 in the MAC and likely on the verge of losing 13 of 14 in the MAC, and that's prior to the MAC tournament where we're destined to be one of the two lowest seeds.

[Globetrotter]

You can win in the Mac with this roster. Not the entire thing but there is also huge room for development with a Ton of guys. I don't think it's talent 100%. It's a lot of player development and buy in.

Are we talking about the said team here? Because I see a team with that roster you're saying can win in the MAC that has now lost 8 of its last 9 in the MAC, has lost 6 straight in the MAC, has lost 5 straight at home in the MAC, and doesn't have a player worthy of being named All-MAC. They're 4-9 in the MAC and likely on the verge of losing 13 of 14 in the MAC, and that's prior to the MAC tournament where we're destined to be one of the two lowest seeds.

Same team was 3-1 in the MAC at one point.

[BGSU33]

You can win in the Mac with this roster. Not the entire thing but there is also huge room for development with a Ton of guys. I don't think it's talent 100%. It's a lot of player development and buy in.

Are we talking about the said team here? Because I see a team with that roster you're saying can win in the MAC that has now lost 8 of its last 9 in the MAC, has lost 6 straight in the MAC, has lost 5 straight at home in the MAC, and doesn't have a player worthy of being named All-MAC. They're 4-9 in the MAC and likely on the verge of losing 13 of 14 in the MAC, and that's prior to the MAC tournament where we're destined to be one of the two lowest seeds.

Same team was 3-1 in the MAC at one point.

That's exactly my point! The MAC season is 9 weeks long, not 2. Going 4-14 in the MAC wouldn't be cutting it. That team that started 3-1 could be the 12 seed.